Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

This rather tired-looking two-tone 7A38-7060 fitted with an incorrect bracelet was listed on eBay Germany yesterday evening.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281389021731

I certainly don't need to use translation software to spot as blatantly obvious an example of mis-representation as this. 

The two tone bracelet fitted may look vaguely reminiscent of the Seiko p/n Z1162C of the equivalent US market model 7A38-7069, but it's nothing like the correct Seiko p/n G1105C normally found on an unmolested original two-tone 7A38-7060, which looks like this:

Thankfully, the would-be seller's ridiculous opening bid price of 150 Euros should be enough to deter even the most unwitting punters.

Decent examples of the common two-tone 7A38-7060 can still be picked up on eBay Germany cheaply - often for as little as 50 Euros.

For a watch that's alledly supposed to be 'rare' there have been quite a few 7A28-7000 / -7001 'Ripley' Aliens listed on eBay recently. Some, like the NOS JDM version offered by profiteering re-seller kineticsinc2012 with the usual ridiculous 'Pie-in-the Sky' Buy-it-Now asking prices. I can't believe that any collector who's prepared to pay 'silly money' for one of these won't have done their homework.

But just in case, I thought I ought to mention this one I spotted listed on eBay Italy a couple of days ago:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121393839378

The description simply reads: Condizioni eccellenti

Indeed it looks good - except the bracelet, which actually isn't a bad match in it's part silver anodized finish, is completely wrong.

Google the model number (with Ripley Aliens) - there are plenty of topics out there showing what the correct bracelet looks like.

For example: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/found-seiko-7a28-7000-aliens-589614.html

In this instance, I guess what really matters to any potential buyer, is how much they value genuine originality. I saw this 7A38-7080 listed on eBay on the States this morning, but it wasn't until I'd scrolled through all the photos this evening that I spotted the anomoly.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301275489023

UP FOR BID 

VINTAGE SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH MENS WATCH 

FROM THE EARLY 80s 

7A38-7080 

BLACK CASE AND BRACELET 

STAINLESS STEEL BACK 

BLACK ORIGINAL AND CLEAN DIAL 7A38-709LT 

YELLOW CHRONOGRAPH SECONS HAND 

WATCH IS WORKING 

CHRONOGRAPH STARTS STOP AND RESET TO ZERO AS IT SHOULD 

ORIGINAL BRACELET WILL FIT 7 1/4 WRIST 

OVER ALL VERY GOOD CONDITIONS 

BOX INCLUDED

The black chrome coated bracelet shown in these 4 of the seller's photos looks very convincing - you could almost say it 'looks right'.

Despite that, it certainly isn't the correct original Seiko p/n B1242S black chrome bracelet that should come fitted on a 7A38-7080.

I can't make out the part number stamped in the bracelet fixing tubes, but I for one, would certainly be intrigued to know what it was.

The other obvious indication that it isn't the original is the almost complete lack of wear to the black chrome coating on the bracelet, and especially the SQ clasp (which is the correct type), compared to the watch head - particularly the wear to the edges of the bezel.

Here's what I'd expect the watch's correct original p/n B1242S bracelet to have looked like, (before it was replaced):

A slightly belated footnote, regarding the non-original bracelet fitted to the above 7A38-7080.

Purely out of interest, I messaged the eBay seller and received a reply a couple of days later:

Hi. B1409 IS GRAVED ON BOTH TUBES.

So presuming he read it correctly, adding an obligatory letter suffix onto the part number, the bracelet fitted is off an A904-5110.

It's a 1980's vintage black chrome plated digital (four button) alarm chronograph:

  .... But unfortunately I can't find a decent pic of one showing the bracelet. 

Only yesterday, I wrote up a couple of posts about a JDM 7A38-6050 fitted with a non-original bracelet, freshly listed by Filipino watch botchers apol_of_your-eyes. I commented on their deceptively worded description and apparent total lack of familiarity with the true meaning of the word 'original'. As we already have a dedicated 7A38-6050 model specific topic, I chose to add the posts to that thread, rather than this one, where it could equally well have fitted.

So what should they do, but overnight, list another 7Axx - this time a Titanium 7A28-7080 fitted with a non-original bracelet. 

They've been a little more circumspect in their choice of wording (no 'original') on this one. I'll leave readers to judge for themselves.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111443642058

I can't quite make out the letters and numbers stamped in the bracelet fixing tubes, but it's something like B1539.E.

I'd hazard a fairly safe bet that the bracelet fitted isn't Titanium (note their inclusion of the word 'The'), but stainless steel. 

Just google the model number and you'll find plenty of images of what the correct p/n B1093S bracelet for a 7A28-7080 looks like.

There's quite a few (in 2 separate batches) posted in this thread on UhrForum.de by forum member Achim (a.k.a Gufi). 

I'm only bothering to mention this for the benefit of any 'newbies'. It should be pretty obvious to most 7Axx watchers.

Listed in the early hours of this morning by a US eBay seller with a somewhat apt username - incorrectly using the dial part number in his title, instead of the case-back model number - 7A38-702H.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121437892655

This is a very clean Seiko Quartz Sports 100 Chronograph mens day/date watch in solid Stainless Steel two-tone Gold/Stainless featuring 3 registers the right one of which measures 1/10 second and contains the day/date window...precision work there! The signed two-tone link deployment band currently fitting 7 1/4 inch wrist or smaller. The clear genuine crystal has fair amount of small scratches which may show in the photo. The flawless face reads "SEIKO, Quartz, CHRONOGRAPH, Sports 100, Japan 7A38-703L T [at bottom]" and the screw-down back reads "[wave logo], 422963, Water Resistant, Stainless Steel, base metal bezel, 7A38-702H A5". Solid Seiko running perfectly on newly installed battery and all hands return to exact zero after chrono function...there is a push-button on left upper which I haven't even used and don't know what it may be for. Sharp looking Seiko measures 38mm across by 11mm thick. Some wear-through on band links and sharp edges of bezel. Offered with no reserve and shipped at low cost. Any additional items shipped FREE in same packaging, so please have a look at my other listings.

The bracelet fitted may indeed be genuine Seiko - as the SQ signed clasp would indicate, but it's certainly not original to this watch. Looking at the precarious fitting, I'd supect whatever it came off was designed to be used with end pieces, which would have carried the bracelet part number stampings. Here's what the correct original Seiko p/n B1171C bracelet looks like on an average 7A38-702H.

Here's a 7A38 fitted with an incorrect replacement bracelet, which has just been listed on eBay in the States, that is absolutely bound to catch out an unwary / unfussy buyer - on account of its very reasonable asking price:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201188999271

7A38-708L

Keeps time

Everything works

Light scratches on crystal

Silver Dial

Fits about 8.25 in. wrist and can be sized down

Shipped Priority mail insured

At first glance, it may look very much like a US-market 7A38-7069, but it's actually the European export model two-tone 7A38-7060.

Apart from their bracelets, note the subtle difference in dial and hands (although both dials are 708L's). 

Here's an interesting (and subtle) one worthy of passing a comment. A case of what goes around comes around. 

Over the last month or so, erstwhile fanatical Australian collector, Stuart Lennard has been dissolving his 7Axx collection.

He listed a batch of 8, then another 11 in October and now overnight another batch of 12 - again a mixture of 7A28's and 7A38's.

One of them is a 'wrong un' - though on the face of it it looks like the way Seiko might have made it - I'm referring to this 7A38-7190.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121476493351

NOTE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE EXPRESS 3-4 DAYS TRACKABLE $42.00 WITHIN AUSTRALIA EXPRESS TRACKABLE $13.00 

SEIKO 7A38-7190 IN NEARLY NEW CONDITION. ONLY A FEW VERY VERY LIGHT SCRATCHES. 

CRYSTAL LIKE NEW. BRACELET LIKE NEW. ALL FUNCTIONS WORK AS THEY SHOULD. 

FULL SIZE BRACELET WILL FIT LARGE WRIST. 

BOX , OUTER BOX AND TAG ....

What Stuart has failed to disclose in his description is that it's not the correct original p/n B1405S bracelet for a stainless 7A38-7190.

This watch is fitted with the Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet normally found on the later stainless 7A38-7270 (which uses the same case).

Stuart knowingly bought this watch from Italian eBay seller Strega_68 back in May 2013, who had listed it with 'Mega Rare' included in the title and a ludicrous Buy-it-Now price of $750. Here's a link Strega_68's original listing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281092574698

I remember advising Stuart about the incorrect bracelet fitted, but he went ahead and bought it (at a considerably reduced price).

Indeed, apart from writing about it previously on page 5 of this thread, I wrote up another thread in the 7Axx discussion area:

Did Seiko themselves ever fit 'wrong' (substitute) bracelets to certain 7A38's ?

The answer / conclusion I arrived at is - No, they didn't. 

For those readers unfamiliar with the model, here's what the correct p/n B1405S bracelet on a stainless 7A38-7190 look like:

My EXTREMELY AVERAGE 'Argos catalogue special' example. 

Here's a rather more blatant deliberate attempt at misrepresentation - another 7A38. This time a very poor example of the stainless 7A38-7060 fitted with an obviously incorrect braclet, probably robbed off a scrap Seiko digital, listed by another Australian eBay seller earlier today - funnily enough one who also hails from the Melbourne area.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281485144714

UP FOR AUCTION IS THIS RARE AND COLLECTABLE 1984 VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38-7060 TRIPLE CHRONOGRAPH 15 JEWELS QUARTZ MENS WATCH. THE 7A28/7A38 WAS THE WORLDS FIRST QUARTZ CHRONO AND WAS VERY ADVANCED 30 YEARS AGO. PACKS 15 JEWELS AND WHERE VERY WELL MADE! THE 7A38 CALIBER HAS DAY/DATE FUNCTIONS. VERY SIMILAR TO THE 7A28 WORN BY ROGER MOORE IN THE 1985 JAMES BOND FILM "VIEW TO A KILL". ALL FUNCTIONS WORKING WELL!

MADE AT THE SEIKO SUWA FACTORY IN JAPAN!! 

WATCH DETAILS 

* STAINLESS STEEL CASE MEASURING 37MM X 44MM FROM LUG TO LUG AND WITHOUT CROWN. HAND POLISHED AND IN GREAT ORDER 

* ORIGINAL SILVER SEIKO DIAL WITH TRIPLE SUB REGISTERS. APPLIED SILVER/BLACK MARKERS. LIGHT AGE PATINA. QUICKSET ENGLISH/FRENCH DAY/DATE AT 3 O'CLOCK

* ORIGINAL BLACK/LUME HANDS AND SWEEP SECONDS WITH LIGHT AGE PATINA 

* ORIGINAL SILVER TACHYMETER CHAPTER RING 

* ORIGINAL MINERAL HARDLEX CRYSTAL, SCRATCH FREE.

* ORIGINAL STAINLESS STEEL CROWN AND PUSHERS. WELL FITTED AND WORK AS THEY SHOULD 

* ORIGINAL STAINLESS STEEL BEZEL IN GREAT CONDITION 

* ORIGINAL 7A38 15 JEWELS QUARTZ MOVEMENT. RUNNING STRONG. 

* ORIGINAL STAINLESS STEEL CASEBACK 7A38-7060, JAPAN-A ,SERIAL NUMBER 420139 (FEB 1984) 

* ORIGINAL? 20MM SEIKO SQ STAINLESS STEEL BRACELET. FULL LENGTH AND WILL FIT UP TO A 7.75 INCH (20CM) WRIST APPROX. LIGHT WEAR

SHIPPING TO ITALY IS BY EXPRESS COURIER ONLY AT $68AUD. FULLY TRACKABLE AND REQUIRES SIGNITURE UPON RECIEPT. TAKES 2-4 DAYS

PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT A WATCH MAKER, ONLY A JAPANESE WATCH ENTHUSIAST AND SELL VINTAGE WATCHES THAT ARE OFTEN NOT PERFECT. I DESCRIBE THE WATCHES BEST I CAN AND POST PICTURES OF THE ACTUAL WATCHES FOR SALE. RETURNS ARE EXCEPTED UP TO 3 DAYS FROM RECEIVING THE WATCH. A 15% RE-STOCKING FEE APPLIES AS EBAY AND PAYPAL CHARGE ON ALL FINAL SALES. IF THE WATCH IS NOT AS DESCRIBED OR DOES NOT WORK AS DESCRIBED, RETURN THE WATCH FOR A FULL REFUND EXCEMPT FROM ANY RE-STOCKING CHARGE.

Blah, Blah, Blah, the bnllsh!t 'description' and T&C's continue ad nauseam ....

Well apart from the “LIGHT AGE PATINA TO DIAL” - read evidence of severe moisture ingress / attack by battery acid fumes ....

which is itself a good reason to avoid this over-priced piece of junk, there's that incorrect non-original replacement bracelet fitted.

Which going by the seller's own case-back photo is a Seiko p/n B477S - and would have very likely been donated by a A156-5020:

 Here's what the correct Seiko p/n G1105S bracelet on a stainless 7A38-7060 should look like:

There's so much of this mis-represented crap on eBay lately, I simply don't have enough time to mention. This one deserves it. 

Spotted another stainless 7A38-7190 this morning, listed by a would-be UK eBay seller, which doesn't mention the model number.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261657278413

Very rare and sought after watch from first 007 bond movie.

See pics for whole description and ref number.

In very good working condition.

Flexi crome strap which gives it that edge!

You be hard pushed to find another like this one on ebay or anywhere else. 

Small scratch on glass but you wouldn't notice it! 

Starting bid is offer I have received.

3 day auction. Happy bidding.

So we're looking at a 1962 vintage 7A38 - on an incorrect replacement bracelet to boot ! 

Seiko7A38 at July 19, 2014 at 4:06 AM

This rather tired-looking two-tone 7A38-7060 fitted with an incorrect bracelet was listed on eBay Germany yesterday evening.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281389021731

I certainly don't need to use translation software to spot as blatantly obvious an example of mis-representation as this. 

And some of this misrepresented crap just keeps on coming, round and around ....

Earlier in the week, I'd noticed the German eBay seller alla0001 had re-listed this tired-looking 7A38-7060 once again ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281492168902

Complete new set of softly-focused photos, opening bid price reduced from 150 Euros t0 75 Euros, but still deliberately falsely including 'Originalarmband'. I say 'deliberately', because I messaged the eBay seller back in July and pointed out his error. 

This typically deceptively worded eBay listing by Filipino arch watch botcher Badingski may catch out the unwary punter ....

The non-original Seiko bracelet (i.e. NOT original to this model) fitted to this 7A38-7029 isn't that bad a match.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301503569050

Seiko7A38 at February 5, 2013 at 5:35 PM

Here's an interesting one - at least for 'correctness' geeks like myself, anyway.  Listed earlier today on eBay by an Italian seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261165705477

orologio seiko chronograph BELLISSIMO!!

 

Seiko chronograph. mai indossato, sempre cassaforte, cinturino in lega bagnato oro. Affare!!

Now Italian isn't my strong suit, but Babelfish translates that as: never worn, always safe, wet gold alloy strap. Bargain!!

You don't have to look hard at the seller's photo to see traces of wear - particularly the chunk of plating missing off the bezel. 

I was intrigued by the gold-plated bracelet - the end pieces appear to fit pretty well, which if you've ever adapted a bracelet to this particular watch case, you'll know isn't easy, because the curves (even at the lug ends) are not a constant radius. But I digress ....

This is a 7A38-7260 SAA100J. Whereas the 7A38-724x and -725x models, which used the same watch case, were factory fitted with bracelets, the 7A38-726x's came fitted with leather straps. According to Seiko Oceania's database, only one strap option was offered

- p/n BRJ37G, a  tan calf leather strap. This is the only photo I have on file showing one, from a Fellows auction lot in October 2006:

Still, optional extra bling factor apart, the rather optimistic opening bid price of 189 Euros should be enough to put most people off. 

Ever get that sense of Déjà Vu ? 

I do all the time, but then I've got a pretty good memory for photographs, if not a photographic memory. 

By chance, I ran a search on Seiko Cronografo (as opposed to Chronograph) on eBay Italy this morning and came across this listing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261747674286

The brief description simply reads: OROLOGIO CRONOGRAFO SEIKO come nuovo.

Unfortunately the eBay auction that I'd linked (in the quote) nearly two years ago has long since dropped off history, but the Italian seller's user ID musicfan269 definately strikes a chord. Although what I may have mis-construed as plating missing from the bezel in his previous small photo, doesn't show any sign in this recently taken head on view, I'm pretty certain this is the same 7A38-7260 on the same incorrectly fitted gold-tone oyster bracelet. Note that in this photo, the lower curved bracelet end piece protrudes well beyond the lug ends. If it's not the same watch (by the same seller), it's on the same grey velvet pillow, anyway.

Yet another stainless 7A38-7190 fitted with a non-original bracelet - this one listed by a Croation eBay seller yesterday evening:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201294784405

Seiko 7A38-7190.

Schöner Zustand, mit original Seiko-Armband.

Alle Funktionen arbeiten.

Alles, was auf den Bildern zu sehen.

Versand nach Deutschland 9 €, für andere Länder bitte nachfragen.

Zahlung per Paypal und Banküberweisung

Privatauktion, keine Rückkehr oder Garantie.

Für alles andere bitte nachfragen.

But not original to this watch ! 

Run away!…Run away! I enlarged the pictures and the dial has a lot of foreign material all over it. Kind of looks like mold spores. Oh, and the main chronograh second hand is bent and wavy, when viewed head on and in the side on shots. Reference photos #3 and #5.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201294784405

Seiko7A38 at March 22, 2014 at 2:08 PM

I wasn't quite sure where to post this one. The Craziest Prices thread or George's 'Are Italians Crazy?' thread in the Members Lounge.

Or here - because although the seller has done his best to obsure the fact in his photos, the watch is clearly fitted with a non-original rubber strap. Listed on eBay Italy earlier this week, with some lunatic bidding already, given the overall condition - certainly NOT NOS:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111303996148

GUARDARE MEGLIO LE FOTO BASTA FARE DOPPIO CLICK SULLA FOTO

TO WATCH THE PICTURES JUST DO DOUBLE CLICK ON THE PICTURE

""""""""SEIKO """"""""""

GIUGIARO 7A38-7080

GHIERA GIREVOLE

FONDELLO A VITE

MISURA ESCLUSA LA CORONA 43,12X40,11 MM

VETRO MINERALE OTTIMO

SUPER RARO DA TROVARE

FUNZIONANTE

CASA IN PVD

CHI CONOSCI QUESTO SA IL SUO VALORE

IN REGALO UN SEIKO 5

PER GUARDARE MEGLIO LE FOTO BASTA FARE DOPPIO CLICK SULLA FOTO

BUON ASTA A TUTTI

X-X-X--X-X-X--X-X-X-X--X-X-X-X-X-X-X--X-X-X-X-X-X--X-X-X-X-X-X--X-X-X--X-X-X-X--X-X-X-X-X-X-X--XX----GORGEOUS AND RARE

"" "" "" "" SEIKO "" "" "" "" ""

GIUGIARO 7A38-7080

ROTATING RING

BOTTOM SCREW

MEASURING EXCLUDING CROWN 44,12 X40, 11 MM

MINERAL GLASS GOOD

SUPER RARE TO FIND

FUNZIONANTE

HOUSE PVD

SA KNOW ABOUT THIS ITS VALUE

GIFT IN A SEIKO 5

BETTER TO WATCH THE PICTURES JUST DO DOUBLE CLICK ON THE PICTURE

HAPPY BIDDING

Funniest thing of all is the 'free gift' Seiko 5 (auto) the seller is so generously including in the price. It's a (QUARTZ) fake !! 

As soon as I clapped eyes on this new listing for a 7A38-7080 by an Italian eBay seller, I got that Déjà Vu feeling (twice in fact). 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391109319781

CLICCA QUI l'utente ha un Negozio eBay ED ENTRA NEL MIO NEGOZIO EBAY TROVERAI TANTI OROLOGI D'EPOCA A PREZZI D'OCCASIONE.

RARISSIMO OROLOGIO VINTAGE ANNI 80 

MARCA SEIKO GIUGIARO DESIGN 

modello 7A38-7080 

bracciale originale Seiko 

batteria nuova 

orologio testato e ben funzionante - WORK PERFECTLY 

CLICCATE SULLE FOTO PER VEDERLE INGRANDITE  (I've only bothered to upload the last 3 of 10).

ACCETTO PROPOSTE DI ACQUISTO SOLO SE RASENTI LA CIFRA D'ASTA

The eBay seller ID may be different - this time leonius_it versus the original giacomitowatch, but their location of Ancona and the ridiculous 'pie-in-the-sky' asking price, especially for such an example with well-worn black chrome plating were dead giveaways. 

This is of course the same 7A38-7080 s/n 451815 which they originally listed back in March last year fitted with a rubber strap.

The other reason I had the sense of Déjà Vu was the incorrect replacement bracelet that's now been fitted to the watch.

If you check out the photos of a 7A38-7080 Franken on the first page of the Heads Up on yet another 7A38 Franken thread ....

you'll see what I mean. This isn't the exactly same (wrong) bracelet with gold plated ornamental bars, but something very similar. 

Edit: While I was composing / editing this post, at 11:31 this morning, the eBay seller removed the Best Offer option:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=391109319781

Just as I was about to make him a more than generous offer of 89 Euros ! 

There was another stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with what appeared, to all intents and purposes, to be a non-original 'incorrect' bracelet, listed on eBay in the States recently, which I could have written about in this thread, but instead chose to post it in this other thread:

eBay listings that make you look twice - for the wrong reasons (Read the posts and the reasons become obvious). 

No qualms, at all, about posting this one just listed by an Italian eBay seller though:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/seiko-vintage-chrono-/321723840969

All'inizio degli anni '80 Seiko lancia una serie di nuovi prodotti rimasti nella storia. Il 7A38-7270 è uno di questi: introvabile con quadrante nero, in condizioni pari al nuovo, come il modello proposto in vendita. Senza graffi evidenti, perfettamente funzionante, con datario (giorni italiano/inglese).

Although the Italian seller doesn't mention it in his description, you don't have to look too hard to see that the bracelet is wrong. Apart from the width mis-match / lack of taper to the links, the central row of links are far too narrow compared to the correct p/n B1615S:

And if you look really close, you'll note that the tachymeter bezel is misplaced, turned a tad to the left, so that the 60, 80 and 120 minute marks are not aligned correctly....

Not too difficult to spot the non-original Seiko bracelet fitted to this 7A28-7020 'James Bond' SPR007J. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181716864614

Very rare Seiko 7A28-7020 (James Bond) watch. Part working for spares or repair. Keeps perfect time but stop watch functions have ceased working. The watch face is in unmarked condition. the glass having some very light scratches. The case and strap have light scratches associated with normal wear. the watch back has had some presentation engraving removed, this has not affected the seiko markings.

This watch is completely original. A new battery was fitted 4 months ago. Any questions please ask. Thanks for looking.

The p/n G1215S bracelet fitted would normally be found on a 6309-6240 or 5H23-7A80 / -7A9A / -7A90. If you need to refresh your memory of what the correct p/n G1032S bracelet on a stainless 7A28-7020 should look like, check out the James Bond thread.

I should not really be posting this listing for a gold-tone* 7A38-7190, created by a US eBay seller overnight in this thread ....

Because the seller has actually clearly disclosed the fact that it's fitted with a replacement bracelet in his description.

But the way he wrote it gave me a good chuckle  so I think he deserves a free plug; even if it's for the wrong reasons ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251931852803

Wait for it ....

Now would I send him hate mail ? 

*At least I think it's a gold tone - but it's kinda hard to tell from the seller's green tinged photos !