Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Yeh - O.K. so I may have fitted the odd non-original bracelet to a 7A48-7000 myself (with the owner's permission) ....

But this abberation looks truly hideous ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380710907078

No mention of it in the seller's description either. 

Up for sale a retro/vintage Seiko Chronograph Moon Phase watch.

Model 7A48. Very sought after model, in working order.

This watch has been previously worn and has visible scratches on crystal.

Those of you who know me, will have probably have realized that I'm something of a pedant. I abhor poor spelling and punctuation.

So sometimes when I copy and paste an eBay seller's listing description, I may make the odd spelling correction, or tidy it as I see fit.

This time I'm not going to bother:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321239438955

VINTAGE SEIKO WATCH 7A28-701A SPEEDMASTER MEGA RARE

Here i am selling my sieko watch choronograph in very good condition has the odd very small minimal marks here and there nothing u would notice without concertraiting on, 

the watch is 1980,the glass of the watch is immaculate and has no scratchs on whats so ever, 

works brillaint keeps time with no problem! 

i will ship international postage will be CALCULATED on final destination. 

any questions please let me know good luck !! 

PLEASE NOT I WILL NOT POST TO AFRICA THANK YOU.

What seller James Denton fails to mention is his less-than-stellar description, is that the watch is fitted with a non-original aftermarket bracelet and clasp extension - something that I'd noticed straight away - without needing to concentrate on his rather small photos. 

Watches fitted with incorrect replacement bracelets probably don't come much more obvious than this ....

A 7A38-7010 fitted with a black chromed bracelet, listed late yesterday evening by a US eBay seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221337092231

UP FOR AUCTION IS A SCARCE VINTAGE SEIKO MILITARY STYLE 7A38-7010 CHRONOGRAPH. IT IS SIMILIAR TO THE YELLOW DIAL "VULCAIN" BUT WITH A BLACK DIAL. DATE ESTIMATE IS 1983 AND IS FAIRLY SCARCE. ALL CHRONOGRAPH FUNCTIONS WORK AS THEY SHOULD AND RESET TO BACK TO ZERO. 15 J SEIKO HIGH GRADE MOVEMENT RUNS STRONG AND KEEPS GOOD TIME. CASE IN NICE SHAPE WITH A MATT FINISH AND SCREW BACK STAINLESS BACK (SEE PHOTOS FOR FURTHER DEPICTION). THE OVERALL LOOK OF THIS TIMEPIECE IS VERY NICE AND LOOKS GREAT ON THE WRIST. THESE WERE SEIKO'S HIGH END QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPHS AT THE TIME AND CAN BE SERVICED. THESE MOVEMENTS ARE HIGH END AND CERTAINLY NOT A LOW END TIMEPIECE BUT A VERY HIGH QUALITY 15 JEWELED QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MOVEMENT. COMES WITH AN AFTER MARKET BLACK METAL BRACELET THAT SUITS THE WATCH VERY WELL. THE OVERALL CONDITION OF DIAL, CRYSTAL, BEZEL & TACHYMETER AND BRACELET IS AS YOU SEE IT AND FAIRLY DECENT. RUNS STRONG, KEEPS GOOD TIME AND ALL CHRONO FUNCTIONS WORK WELL AND RESET TO ZERO. DAY/DATE WORKS AS IT SHOULD ALSO. YOU WILL HAVE TO DOWNLOAD A 7A38 MANUAL FOR INSTRUCTIONS ON THE OVERALL FUNCTION OF THE WATCH. THIS IS A SWEET MILITARY STYLE SEIKO. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE ASK QUESTIONS PRIOR TO BIDDING TO CLEAR UP ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THE ITEM. THIS IS AN AUCTION, NOT A RETAIL STORE. ALL SALES FINAL. DOMESTIC SHIPPING (USA) IS FREE. INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING COST IS BASED ON LOCATION BUT TYPICALLY CAN BE SHIPPED FOR UNDER 20 USD. PAYMENT VIA PAYPAL AND OTHER APPROVED EBAY PAYMENT METHODS OR EMAIL ANY PAYMENT QUESTIONS. BEST OF LUCK FOLKS AND HAPPY AND SAFE HOLIDAYS!

Pity, because the head - and particularly the vulnerable bezel insert appear to be in good cosmetic condition in the seller's photos.

You may be wondering why I flagged it here. I'm sure that when I first read the description that there was no mention of the bracelet.

Minutes after the listing appeared, the seller revised the description. 

Here's another more subtle one, listed by a UK eBay seller earlier in the week ....

A 7A38-7000 fitted with a plain brushed stainless bracelet, rather than the correct original Seiko p/n B1170 with black painted inlays:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251401305363

80's Seiko Quartz stainless steel chronograph watch with day/date. Excellent condition. Fully working order with new battery. Serial Number 300488.

Must admit that I was a more than a little intrigued by this one, so I messaged the seller asking what part numbers (if any) were stamped on the back of the bracelet fixing tubes. Much more of the bracelet is visible in the seller's second photo:

The seller replied to my question yesterday evening - it's a Seiko p/n B1424S, which funnily enough is what I thought they might say.

They wrote that they'd remembered it as being the original bracelet, but added that it may have been fitted by Seiko UK during a service many years ago. Which rings true. I've seen evidence of Seiko UK supplying the B1424S bracelet as a substitute replacement for other 7A38's in the past - including a 7A38-701B 'Vulcan'. See: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=88704

A partial quote from Robb's first post reads:

I had tried at a good Seiko stockists to obtain the correct bracelet for the old one before, but they could not track one down, however when I got the new watch complete with bracelet they had something to work from and managed to get me one.

Which was the Seiko p/n B1424S (rather than the correct p/n Z1118S).

I've already written this one up in the 7A38-6000 model specific topic, but it won't hurt to post it here as well, because I suspect it may catch out the unwary punter. This was listed just before lunchtime today by Italian eBay seller Strega_68:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121236336587

No mention of the bracelet in the seller's description:

VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38 - 6000 CHRONOGRAPH SPORT'S 100

SEIKO USED BUT IN EXCELLENT CONDITION

WORKING PERFECTLY

ROTATING BEZEL

SEIKO ORIGINAL BOX

PIECE COMING FROM MY PRIVATE COLLECTION

As I wrote in the other thread (copy and paste):

The other thing to be wary of with this example is the bracelet fitted - it's NOT the original Seiko p/n G1157S band. Compare it with the photos of the NOS example in their previous listing. Not just the end pieces, but the profile of the link sections are completely different.

Seiko7A38 at December 15, 2013 at 5:21 AM

Watches fitted with incorrect replacement bracelets probably don't come much more obvious than this ....

A 7A38-7010 fitted with a black chromed bracelet, listed late yesterday evening by a US eBay seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221337092231

UP FOR AUCTION IS A SCARCE VINTAGE SEIKO MILITARY STYLE 7A38-7010 CHRONOGRAPH. IT IS SIMILIAR TO THE YELLOW DIAL "VULCAIN" BUT WITH A BLACK DIAL. DATE ESTIMATE IS 1983 AND IS FAIRLY SCARCE. ALL CHRONOGRAPH FUNCTIONS WORK AS THEY SHOULD AND RESET TO BACK TO ZERO. 15 J SEIKO HIGH GRADE MOVEMENT RUNS STRONG AND KEEPS GOOD TIME. CASE IN NICE SHAPE WITH A MATT FINISH AND SCREW BACK STAINLESS BACK (SEE PHOTOS FOR FURTHER DEPICTION). THE OVERALL LOOK OF THIS TIMEPIECE IS VERY NICE AND LOOKS GREAT ON THE WRIST. THESE WERE SEIKO'S HIGH END QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPHS AT THE TIME AND CAN BE SERVICED. THESE MOVEMENTS ARE HIGH END AND CERTAINLY NOT A LOW END TIMEPIECE BUT A VERY HIGH QUALITY 15 JEWELED QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MOVEMENT. COMES WITH AN AFTER MARKET BLACK METAL BRACELET THAT SUITS THE WATCH VERY WELL. THE OVERALL CONDITION OF DIAL, CRYSTAL, BEZEL & TACHYMETER AND BRACELET IS AS YOU SEE IT AND FAIRLY DECENT. RUNS STRONG, KEEPS GOOD TIME AND ALL CHRONO FUNCTIONS WORK WELL AND RESET TO ZERO. DAY/DATE WORKS AS IT SHOULD ALSO. YOU WILL HAVE TO DOWNLOAD A 7A38 MANUAL FOR INSTRUCTIONS ON THE OVERALL FUNCTION OF THE WATCH. THIS IS A SWEET MILITARY STYLE SEIKO. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE ASK QUESTIONS PRIOR TO BIDDING TO CLEAR UP ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THE ITEM. THIS IS AN AUCTION, NOT A RETAIL STORE. ALL SALES FINAL. DOMESTIC SHIPPING (USA) IS FREE. INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING COST IS BASED ON LOCATION BUT TYPICALLY CAN BE SHIPPED FOR UNDER 20 USD. PAYMENT VIA PAYPAL AND OTHER APPROVED EBAY PAYMENT METHODS OR EMAIL ANY PAYMENT QUESTIONS. BEST OF LUCK FOLKS AND HAPPY AND SAFE HOLIDAYS!

Pity, because the head - and particularly the vulnerable bezel insert appear to be in good cosmetic condition in the seller's photos.

You may be wondering why I flagged it here. I'm sure that when I first read the description that there was no mention of the bracelet.

Minutes after the listing appeared, the seller revised the description. 

I wrote more about this particular 7A38-7010 in another thread in this section, in response to a question asked by forum member:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/11482973 7A38-7010-is-this-a-good-price ? The answer was basically No.

At the original opening bid price of $245 / £150 - presuming you had an original Seiko p/n Z1118S bracelet going spare, it might have made sense. But not at the price where the bidding subsequently ended 3 days later - at $367 / £225. Well not in my book anyway.

The title of this topic is something of a mis-nomer in this case:

Yet another 7Axx on an undisclosed non-original bracelet ....

Because this 7A38-7010 listed overnight by a would-be profiteering US re-seller is one and the same watch, s/n 3N1815.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161180500460

Rare Vintage SEIKO 7A38-7010 Chronograph from 1983.

Watch is in excellent condition with minor marks.

Quartz movement is running, and keeping time.

Day/Date is English, and German.

Stainless steel bracelet will fit up to a 7.5 inch wrist, and has removable links for shortening

Buckle is marked "SEIKO SQ".

Chronograph starts, stops, and resets to zero.

Dial is flat black with glossy sub dials. White hands and markers really pop against the black background.

All button functions working.

Case is sand blasted.

Case back is screw down and still has original oval sticker.

Although the tired-looking stretched stainless bracelet this wise-A$$ would-be re-seller has fitted may look more like the original Seiko p/n Z1118S (well at least it's the right colour) - it isn't one; it's a much older p/n Z187, which has a brushed finish, not silver-anodised.

For those of us who do care about these things. 

Being something of a purist, perhaps I attach too much importance to 'originality' - particularly with regard to replacement bracelets.

I noticed a topic started on SCWF on Christmas Eve, entitled: Original bracelet, deal breaker or not ?

Hardly worth mentioning for most of the opinions stated therein, save for this informative post by Jonathan 'swedefreak' Koch:

One must remember Seiko, in the early to mid-1970s was making every effort to gain foothold in markets far from Asia. To this end, they began issuing their product on lighter, flimsier bracelets to keep basic retail prices down. In a very real sense, this was a good practice as they did not compromise the quality of the watches themselves.

Until this time virtually all bracelets sold on Seiko watches were signed by Stelux, arguably the largest manufacturer of metal watch attachments and their parts. Rolex, Omega, Bulova, Longines and many other watch manufactures used and still use Stelux. As does Seiko. However, going back to the '70s, Seiko began sourcing the light-weight bracelets from Stelux, but with only Seiko markings.

The downside of this marketing choice is the lighter bracelets, in general, wore out rather quickly. Some, with very thin connecting links, wore even more quickly. Thus, within a couple years of use, these bracelets began to fail, some on a catastrophic level.

At this point the only easy option for the owner was to replace the failed bracelet with a leather strap or one of the many aftermarket metal offerings from the likes of Jacoby-Bender, Kreisler or Spiedel, to name just a few.

As one working in fine retail jewelry salons at the time, I cannot tell you how many hundreds of busted-up bracelets I personally disposed of. Then, think of all the hundreds upon hundreds of other retailers doing the same thing and the picture comes to very sharp focus. I kick myself these days, wishing I had the foresight to save some of them for their good links, buckles and end pieces.

Add to this dismal image the loss of millions of "extra links", removed at the point of sale for fit to the buyer's wrist. My practice here was to urge the buyer to save these links in a safe place just in case they were needed down the road for adjustment or repair. Take a good guess at how many customers heeded this advice.

This rough-ish 7A38-7029 was listed on eBay in the States last night:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161190308372

Seiko Sports 100 7A38-7029 Chronograph Tachymeter with new battery that is being sold AS-IS because I can't figure out how to test all of its functions. I have tested it for 2 weeks and it keeps good time. The crystal has numerous scratches.

There's no mention of the chunky non-original replacement bracelet fitted in the seller's description.

It looks like a Speidel; from the gap visible between the lugs exposing the spring bars, with an 8mm (instead of 10mm) first joining link.

I'm looking at this as a learning machine, and wonder just what that metal is like to burnish.  i.e. it looks to me like a coating of some sort on top of the metal.  Perhaps I could practice plating it.

Just looked again, and it does say Stainless on the back. 

In terms of eBay sightings, I'll grant you the two-tone 7A38-7090 variant is pretty rare. It's also unusual to see one that's right. 

Listed by a UK seller a couple of hours ago:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301063352602

RARE SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH 7A38-7090.

ONE OF THE WORLDS 1ST QUARTZ CHRONOs.

FULL WORKING ORDER,KEEPS GREAT TIME.

ALL FUNCTIONS WORK AND RESET CORRECTLY.

UNUSUAL CHOC BROWN FACE,CASE 40MM X 36MM.

LIGHT USER MARKS ONLY ON CASE AND CRYSTAL.

VERY VERY RARE MODEL, UK BIDDERS AND PAYPAL ONLY.

SENT BY RECORDED DELIVERY,GOOD LUCK.

And this one isn't quite right either. No idea exactly what bracelet is fitted, but it sure as heck isn't the original Seiko p/n Z1209C. 

Indeed, I had to go back a long way through my files - to December 2008, to find a couple of photos of an unmolested example:

Mmmm . . . I hope it isn't the fourth from the left top.  No reason it should be, other than it's rare.

http://www.google.com/search?q=7A38-7090

I'm not sure what the metal is.

As for the Base Metal offering in recent listings.  That's shot past my stored bid.  Poor gold finish and a no-go.  I had hoped to practice gold plating on that.  But not at that price. 

Actually, Rob, your google image search bought up a much nicer example offered for sale on Uhforum.de last year, which I'd missed:

http://uhrforum.de/seiko-7a38-7090-in-topzustand-unpoliert-t152262

Seiko7A38 at January 8, 2014 at 2:51 PM

Actually, Rob, your google image search bought up a much nicer example offered for sale on Uhforum.de last year, which I'd missed:

http://uhrforum.de/seiko-7a38-7090-in-topzustand-unpoliert-t152262

That´s mine now... 

Wow, what a beauty! Very nice score, congratulations.

There've been so many speculatively over-priced mis-represented 7Axx's on eBay lately, it almost got to the point where I couldn't be arsed to comment on them anymore. But then I spotted this 7A28-7069 listed by a US eBay seller. It must have been up there a week:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261371603830

Possibly not so immediately apparent from the seller's first photo, but check out their fifth image:

It wasn't just the obvious (too narrow and ill-matched) incorrect replacement bracelet fitted, but the last bit of the seller's description:

Seiko titanium sports 100 men's watch model 7a28-7069 Watch is in amazing condition works perfect.

Please view pictures and email us with any questions. Watch is priced to sell so grab it fast. 

So that's $895 plus ....

                                          Really ????   

This listing for a 7A28-710A by Italian ebay seller marcorin is wrong - for a couple of reasons, not least his abuse of the Vulcan myth (which pertains to the yellow-dialed 7A38-701B - NOT this watch). He has admitted to one pusher being non-original in his description, but then conveniently omitted to say anything about the incorrect replacement bracelet that's fitted:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271393991074

Seiko 7a28 in ottime condizioni. Modello detto Vulcan Bomber molto raro. Un pulsante è stato sostituito. Condizioni estetiche e di funzionamento perfette. Le foto sono rappresentative e sono a disposizione per eventuali informazioni. Buona Asta.

Seiko 7a28 in very good condition.

One pusher is not original.

It works perfectly. Happy bidding!

The seller appears to be trying to hide the bracelet part number, particularly in the way he's cropped the third photo. But if you zoom in

.... on the next two side-on views and squint hard, it's just possible to make out B1075 - which is the bracelet for a 7A28-7040 / -7049.

I've been scratching around trying to find a decent photo of a 7A28-710A showing the correct original Seiko p/n NA19A bracelet (complete with Speedmaster clasp), but not found one yet. So here instead is an enlarged scan from the 1985 JDM catalogue:

I'm working on this issue.

I don't know if this band has anything to do with Seiko, but the watch could serve me well at the moment even if I make a loss on this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEIKO-QUARTZ-CHRONOGRAPH-MANS-WRIST-WATCH-7A38-7000-/400660616219

I have a selection of bands, but all I need to do is find someone called Deborah who has a boyfriend with the initials JEB.

Why on Earth did they slant the writing compared to the Seiko marks? 

Rather than start another thread, has anyone seen this one before?  I don't recall the inscription, but I do recall seeing one where a scratch on the crystal makes it look like a defective 5 of the 45 on the continuous seconds dial.