Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at April 20, 2013 at 7:53 AM

This stainless 7A38-7190 fitted with an incorrect B1615S bracelet (properly belonging to the stainless 7A38-727x range) offered by Italian eBay seller strega_68, earlier this week, had already been mentioned in the 'Craziest Prices' thread - for obvious reasons. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281092574698

My final throwaway line in that post read: But what is it about it that makes it MEGA RARE ? 

But what made that part of my post more ironic, was that a matter of only a few days later, with an almost incredible coincidence of timing, a Portuguese eBay seller listed another stainless 7A38-7190 also fitted with the same 'wrong' Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221215790943

Not that there ever really were any doubts in my mind that the only 'correct' bracelet for a stainless 7A38-7190 was the p/n B1405S ....

But to prove the case, I wrote a topic in the 7Axx Discussion Area, documenting other 'wrong' examples like this I'd seen previously:

www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/8866733-did-seiko-themselves-ever-fit-wrong-substitute-bracelets-to-certain-7a38-s-

It turned out that this 'second' 7A38-7190 fitted with a p/n B1615S bracelet offered on eBay this month, was actually the very same watch (s/n 651231) as the first one I'd seen sold by the erstwhile US collector 'pgpmd' in October 2010. A simple case of 'Déjà vu'.

I never thought about adding these two 7A38-7190's onto this thread (where the both rightfully belong). Very remiss of me indeed.

But I was going through my eBay watching page this morning and had stop and do a 'double take' at the Portuguese seller's listing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221215790943

Seems yesterday, he switched the 'almost correct' p/n B1615S for another completely wrong bracelet and took a new set of photos !

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&_trksid=p2047675.l2569&rt=nc&item=221215790943

Definitely the same watch .... and now definitely fitted with the wrong bracelet ! 

Here's a bit of a naughty one which might just catch out the unwary luna-tic moonphase fancier. On the face of it, a rarer black-dialed 7A48-5010 - New with tags, listed overnight by a US eBay seller for the possibly tempting and comparatively low price of 'only' $375:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390582234041

Men's SEIKO MOON PHASE CHRONOGRAPH VERY RARE NEW.Professional quartz JAPAN movement 7A48.Water resistant 30meters.STAINLESS STEEL CASE on STAINLESS STEEL SEIKO BRACELET.SCREW-DOWN BACK CASE.Comes in a SEIKO box.WIDE OF THE CASE without crown38.5mm.RETAIL:$695.00. Florida residents add 6% sales tax.14 days money back guaranteed as long as a watch is not used. DON'T MISS THIS ONE!!!

Note it doesn't actually state 'original' Seiko bracelet. This watch, although theoretically 'New' appears to have been fitted with a Seiko p/n Z1093C normally found on the 7A48-7000 / -7009 model (also an 18mm lug width fitting). Oddly enough, this seller 'bizcool1998' is also offering a two-tone white-faced 7A48-5000 (item # 310655604450)  for the same price - $375, that does appear to be fitted with the correct p/n B1406C bracelet, shared by the 7A48-5000 and 7A48-5010. Here's what it looks like on the latter:

The reason the 'lower' price of $375 might tempt the unwary collector being that the photo above comes from 'crazy' Italian eBay seller angeli_65's current listing - where they're asking $1750 for exactly the same watch in a similar condition (but on the correct bracelet).

I smelled something fishy, so a good thing I took a look first at what you have to say about it before hitting "pay now". (well, this time anyway). 

Thanks Paul!! 

Well, you could always buy the two of them, Harry (the 7A48-5010 and the 7A48-5000 he also has on offer) and swap the p/n B1406C bracelet between them - the black-dialed 7A48-5010 obviously being the rarer and more desirable of the two. Then possibly use the p/n Z1093C band (that's assuming that's what it actually is - there's only the one photo) on a 7A48-7000 / -7009 or simply move on the 7A48-5000 along with the wrong bracelet. Whether that 7A48-5010 is fitted with the wrong bracelet or not, it's sure to tempt somebody.

Italian eBay seller calls it 'New with Tags' ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300898427624

I say fitted with wrong bracelet ! 

This one looks like an unpolished electroplated watch.

with tag is true - but which tag ?

Maybe I should keep my tea tags for resale

Had a look on ebay at the Italian Seiko 7A48-5010. The bracelet no B1406 is that an original for that model?

Perhaps I need to spell it out a little clearer, Ric. 

.... fitted with the correct p/n B1406C bracelet, shared by the 7A48-5000 and 7A48-5010. Here's what it looks like on the latter ....

angeli_65's current listing - where they're asking $1750 for exactly the same watch in a similar condition (but on the correct bracelet)

Seiko7A38 at April 20, 2013 at 7:53 AM

This stainless 7A38-7190 fitted with an incorrect B1615S bracelet (properly belonging to the stainless 7A38-727x range) offered by Italian eBay seller strega_68, earlier this week, had already been mentioned in the 'Craziest Prices' thread - for obvious reasons. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281092574698

My final throwaway line in that post read: But what is it about it that makes it MEGA RARE ? 

I wrote up a separate thread in the 7Axx discussion area, about incorrect p/n B1615S bracelets being fitted to stainless 7A38-7190's:

www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/8866733-did-seiko-themselves-ever-fit-wrong-substitute-bracelets-to-certain-7a38-s-

But seems it was to no avail. I just noticed that strega_68's stainless 7A38-7190 fitted with a (wrong) B1615S bracelet sold yesterday:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281092574698

If Goodbid's Seller History tool is to be believed (rounded up), it sold for an incredible $490 !! 

Looks like the purchaser was a first-time 7Axx buyer from Korea. Still .... they say there's one born every minute.  

Belated edit: I sent a message to the buyer, giving him a 'heads up'. He said that he only paid $260 plus $30 shipping for this watch.

So it would seem that the selling prices given by Goofbid's eBay Seller History tool are not to be trusted. They're not even close. 

Edit: Indeed it did sell for a best offer of $260. Still way too high for a used stainless 7A38-7190 fitted with the wrong bracelet, IMHO. 

Not quite 'Yet another 7A38 on an undisclosed non-original bracelet ....", this time - more a case of Déjà vu. 

If this stainless 7A38-7090, fitted with an incorrect replacement p/n Z1357S bracelet, listed on eBay in the UK looks vaguely familiar ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221225680925

Go back to page 3, and scroll halfway down, where you'll find the same watch was listed using the same 6 photos in January this year:

As per the previous listing, the current seller (one assumes ratboy964 won the previous eBay auction) description includes the phrase:

Steel strap, don't know if it's original, fastener clicks shut ok, stamped SEIKO ....

Same photo used in the previous listing shows it's a p/n Z1357S bracelet (stamped Z1357.E), as available from Cousins UK for £3.30.

And they just keep coming. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121110149255

Apart from the small matter of the chrono' fault, there's that 'Nice Band'. 

Not quite sure what it's off (I don't recognise the logo), but it appears to be 'Gunmetal' rather than stainless (and gold-plated) two-tone.

It might look 'nice' on some other watch.  Here's what the correct Seiko p/n B1615C bracelet on a two-tone 7A38-7270 looks like:

Looks like the purchaser was a first-time 7Axx buyer from Korea. Still .... they say there's one born every minute.  

Belated edit: I sent a message to the buyer, giving him a 'heads up'. He said that he only paid $260 plus $30 shipping for this watch.

So it would seem that the selling prices given by Goofbid's eBay Seller History tool are not to be trusted. They're not even close. 

Edit: Indeed it did sell for a best offer of $260. Still way too high for a used stainless 7A38-7190 fitted with the wrong bracelet, IMHO.

Looks like that Korean buyer of strega_68's stainless 7A38-7190 may have heeded my advice and asked to cancel the transaction ....

'Cos it's back again - re-listed ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121110192543

Another piece of ex-Filipino junk - a very tired-looking 7A28-703A being peddled once again by German eBay re-seller sonntagsuhr

.... except this time around, it's missing it's original Seiko p/n B1073S bracelet, since replaced by a Feiko, fitted with a Seiko clasp. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321126675537

Here's a few of the dozen and more photos he has embedded in his description:

The relevant part of the deliberately misleading description includes:

Bracelet: Seiko  It's NOT !  .... It's one of these cheap and nasty feiko-after-market-bracelets fitted with a Seiko clasp.

For wrists up to 20cm

Lug: 20mm

Check out the thread in the Members' Lounge section, and you'll see where this watch was previously listed in July last year:

www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7813518-the-name-and-shame-ebay-yahoo-jp-profiteering-dealer-re-sellers-thread

For the benefit of any visitors reading this thread, who won't have access to the above section ....

and are more likely to fall for this sort of thing (read misrepresented re-cycled and downgraded ex-Filipino junk) ....

Here's a couple of photos from the eBay listing in June 2012 where sonnstaguhr (a.k.a Maksym Petrakivskyy) bought it ....

As sold by José 'Watchcooking' Sotto on 17th June for $115.39 (approx. £74.22) - the original eBay item # was 370618072867.

As previously listed by sonntagsuhr in July 2012 when still fitted with its original Seiko p/n B1073S bracelet (item # 320945258709).

At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious - yet another ....

This time a stainless 7A38-7000 fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet, listed earlier today by a Spanish seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261218817428

Reloj seiko 7A38-7000 

Maquinaria restaurada, caja y cadena recién pulida, cristal nuevo, hermetizado. 

Uno de los primeros cronógrafos de cuarzo del mercado. 

Seiko 7A38-7000 Watch 

Machinery restored, freshly polished box and chain, new glass, sealed. 

One of the first market quartz chronographs.

No mention that the 'chain' isn't the one it's supposed to be - but then we've come to expect that. 

For those in doubt how it's bracelet should look, please refer to the 7A38-xxxx model specific topic: 7A38-7000 SAA007J Stainless

Edit: Strangely enough, earlier today that same thread was viewed by a first time visitor whose IP address showed as Móstoles, Madrid.

Seiko7A38 at May 13, 2013 at 2:18 PM

And they just keep coming. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121110149255

Apart from the small matter of the chrono' fault, there's that 'Nice Band'. 

Not quite sure what it's off (I don't recognise the logo), but it appears to be 'Gunmetal' rather than stainless (and gold-plated) two-tone.

It might look 'nice' on some other watch.  Here's what the correct Seiko p/n B1615C bracelet on a two-tone 7A38-7270 looks like:

And coming back again, in a slightly different guise, too. 

Here's Wai Phyo Worldwideweb66's latest 7Axx offering, listed overnight - a two-tone 7A38-7270 fitted with another wrong bracelet:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140983379440

Note the deliberately wishy-washy statement above outlined in red. 

Seems it's definately not the original bracelet - and Wai knows that , because he tried (and failed miserably) to fit it himself. 

This 7A38-7270 is exactly the same watch I flagged a couple of weeks ago, but now fitted (and I use that word advisedly) with another wrong replacement bracelet. Here's where he bought it using his alternative eBay ID kyiaye which shows as y***k  in abbreviated form.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121110149255

The wrong bracelet that Wai's tried to fit in place of that unidentified gunmetal two-tone looks (to my eyes) very much like a Seiko p/n Z337S. Reason I say that is I've used one myself on my 7A38-7270 Franken. They can be made to fit reasonably well if you tweak the ears on the lug tubes - which Wai obviously wasn't capable of doing (or bothered). That's the reason his bracelet doesn't sit properly.

This horrible looking non-original replacement bracelet fitted to this well-worn gold-tone 7A38-7060 should be pretty obvious to most:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271242544978

EXCELLENT SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH, DAY DATE,7A38 - 7060,MEGA RARE VINTAGE,15 jewels with box !!!

Watch works very accurately!!!

The watch is in perfect condition, all functions work perfectly.

Size-40mm x 44mm x 10 mm

Everything on it is original !!!

New battery Renata (Swiss)!

Fifteen jewels!!

Here's what the correct original Seiko p/n G1105G bracelet should look like:

I doubt somehow that everything works quite as it should - particularly the chrono' sweep hand.

Note the mangled centre seconds finger tension spring, which looks like it might be fouling the shaft. 

Haven't see many  lately - or at least none that were so blatantly 'wrong'. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121155590303

Vintage Seiko 7A28 15 jewel mens quartz chronograph.

Stainless case which measures approximately 40.5mm across, is in good condition but does show some general wear & tear in the way of marks & scratches.The fixed tachymeter bezel insert shows the most wear but is still readable. Crystal also shows some light marks & scratches but nothing too bad. Screw on type caseback does not show any of the usual tool marks from being carelessly opened. Is stamped with a serial number that reads 371157,does the first digit 3 indicate a manufacture date of 1983?,sure some will know. Other numbers are 7A28-703B.

Speedmaster type dial looks very good,maybe the sub dials are just a little toned with age,the matt black background looks excellent.Printing in silver is still very sharp,inner bezel also looks perfect.Luminous to markers is still active, glows in the dark,but maybe not as brightly as when the watch was new. All hands look near perfect with no loss of paint or luminous.

I have not opened the watch but from what I know the movement is a 15 jewel quartz. I have no idea when the battery was last replaced but at the moment the watch is working fine & keeping very good time. Not sure how to work all of the buttons but I can manage to get the stop watch working & reset to zero the flyback hand.

The bracelet is the original Seiko one which should fit up to a 7 1/2" size wrist, but no more I would think.

It might well be an original Seiko bracelet - it looks very much like a p/n B1075S off a 7A28-7040 or a p/n B1241S off a 7A38-7070, but it sure as heck isn't the original p/n B1074S bracelet for a 7A28-703B. Might even be worth buying for the bracelet if you need one. 

The last paragraph of the listing description has now been amended. 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&_trksid=p2047675.l2569&rt=nc&item=121155590303

The bracelet is an original Seiko one but does not look to be the original for this watch. A bit of research shows that it is probably from another 7A28 model, either a 7A28-7040 or 7049 model. To the reverse near the ends are the numbers B1075. This information I have amended from the original listing. The bracelet should fit up to a 7 1/2" size wrist, but no more I would think.

By posting about another 7A38 he'd seen on there, new member Ginny reminded me I hadn't checked out Okazii.ro in a little while. 

In searching on 'Seiko Chronograph', looking for the watch he was referring to, I came across this mess:

http://www.okazii.ro/ceasuri-barbatesti/ceasuri-seiko/ceas-seiko-quartz-chronograph-a130827648

The seller's description reads simply:

Watch SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH, perfectly functional, immaculate condition, has 3.8 cm diameter.

Immaculate condition ? 

Well apart from the fact that all the original gold plating has been polished off the bezel, of what was once a two-tone 7A38-7280 ....

There's that ill-fitting incorrect replacement bracelet they've slapped on it. 

For the benefit of those readers who don't know what an immmaculate two-tone 7A38-7280 should look like, here's mine ....

Incidentally, the seller 'duchessmarie' is the same one that I indirectly purchased my Roman numeral dial gold-tone 7A38-706A from.

My recommendation ? Avoid - with extreme prejudice. Not only is this seller a watch-botcher of the worst kind, they are dishonest !