Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at December 13, 2018 at 10:44 AM

Seiko7A38 at March 11, 2018 at 5:17 AM

Please excuse the rant, but I've just seen something that annoyed me. 

I've made no secret of my loathing of social media and the wannabe experts that frequent it - especially those who spread misinformation to their fanboys in an effort to score more likes. I just did a quick google search on 7A38-6020, and came across these 4 images of quite a decent example of the brown-coated version. It looks like it may have benefitted from a NOS bracelet (compared to the coating wear on the case).

http://imgur.com/r/JapaneseWatches/g5zZY

The page is titled:

One of the lesser-known Giuigiaro designs - Seiko 7A38-6020

The reason it might be 'lesser known' (to you) is because it's not a Giugiaro design - you ignorant Fg Moron ! 

Well, what a surprise (not) - same case-back serial # 4O5611. 

Looks like this one is back and nearly double the price Spencer sold it for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Seiko-x-Guigiaro-Chronograph-7a38-6020/183737804033

You beat me to it, Matthew. 

Yes, what is obviously the same brown-coated 7A38-6020 (case-back s/n 4O5611), sold by Spencer Klein (via his website) for $575 last December, was listed in the early hours of this morning by a US eBay seller, with a laughable 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $1050 (or the option to make a much lower more sensible offer). To add insult to injury, he's offering it through eBay's dysfunctional GSP programme, which potentially adds another $323 in charges for anybody foolhardy enough to contemplate using it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183737804033

For sale is a rare Seiko 7A38-6020 in brown and orange and gold. This was designed by famed Italian designer Georgetto Guigiaro, who also designed the Seiko watches used in the movie “Aliens”.

Watch was recently serviced (mechanically fully restored, case rebuilt/resealed) with NOS rotating ring, crystal, and bracelet. Mid-case does show some wear to the PVD. Some marks/scratches on caseback.

Other features include:

Chronograph with 1/10th second hand

day / date

43.5mm case diameter

Bracelet will fit up to 7.5”

You may remember what I wrote during our exchange on the previous page ....

Seiko7A38 at December 13, 2018 at 11:51 AM

Yup. I think you 'dodged a bullet' in missing that one, Matthew. O.K., so the NOS bezel and bracelet are admittedly nice to have - and a good selling point.

But I know that if I'd bought that watch (as a newbie), my eyes would forever be catching glimpses and then drawn to that badly worn watch case and pushers.

The would-be profiteering re-seller evidently hasn't bonded with it.  I wonder if that might be anything to do with the wear to the brown coating of the watch case ? His third photo shows it quite clearly - which incidentally, none of Spencer's photos conveniently ever did. By the way, remember when we were trading emails (before you actually joined the forum) and were discussing Spencer Klein's earlier YouTube videos ? I'm convinced that the brown-coated 7A38-6020 which features in them (in various stages of restoration) is the same watch. It's worth listening to his comments about it in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLjpenqErXA from 00:50 on:

Mine came as a WRECK - a WRECK from the Philippines. It was just JUNK with like a hand-made crystal - a hand-made crystal; hand-made crystal , no bracelet, a badly damaged (um) rotating ring. You can see really the only thing left is how worn the case is - See it's down to the black there. (Fumbles it) ....

Here's another earlier video - before Spencer sourced and fitted the NOS bezel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLo3ldnvtic&t=70s

That one actually dates back to October 2015, when Spencer was offering it for sale on YouTube. Though he plays down the wear to the watch case in his commentary, he does briefly give a couple of side on views showing it clearly. Interesting to hear his statement @ 2:20:

And I found the last available new old stock bracelet for it. These are really, really, really hard to find and I paid more for the bracelet than I paid for the watch head.

To quote myself from the previous page:

Then there's that rare as rocking horse droppings NOS Z1207H bracelet. Hmm.

It seems I'd previously overlooked posting about it in this thread, but Filipino eBay seller Tony Plaza listed a couple of them, back in August 2015.

IIRC, they were $89.99 or $99.99 apiece. I know I grabbed one a bit sharpish. Seeing as he'd already had a couple of brown-coated 7A38-6020's pass through his hands, I suspect it was very likely Spencer Klein who bought the second one.

One of these days there will be one in a decent condition that is not hilariously over-priced. Maybe.  It definitely looks to be the same watch in all the videos. You are correct I do not recall any side shots of the coating in the sale pictures despite him indicating in the earlier videos the coating was well worn. At least I can feel secure now that I did dodge one there, so thanks Paul!

Much to my surprise, the would-be profiteering US eBay re-seller of the ex-Spencer Klein 7A38-6020 seems to have got lucky and found himself a mug punter buyer, rather quicker than expected. It sold early this morning (UK time), making him a handsome profit for his brief period of ownership.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183737804033

WatchCount.com's Look-up tool reveals it actually sold for a Best Offer of $900 !

The eBay Purchase History shows the buyer was the only person to make offers. 

This brown-coated 7A38-6020 in average well worn condition was listed early on Monday morning, by a US eBay seller as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $100. FWIW, it's being offered through eBay's dysfunctional GSP programme. It's suffering from all the usual maladies, including coating wear, scuffed crystal, faded bezel inlay and dial printing. That all said, I'm a little surprised that with 3 days of the 7-day auction already passed, it still hasn't attracted an opening bid.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173866415924

Seiko 7A38-6020 Quartz Sports 100 Chronograph Watch Giugiaro Design. Condition is Pre-owned.

I am original owner, father bought it for me on a trip to Venezuela I believe the year to be about 1989. I wore it for most of the 1990s which accounts for the heavy wear. I do not have any other materials like box or links. My wrist size is about a mediums men's I would say. I put a new battery in about 4 weeks ago and is keeping time. Since I have had it, I have been unable to replace any seals as the locals shops state they are unable to get parts as they recognize it was not for US market. Some pictures I took outside for best possible light to show wear.

I suspect this other example in rather better cosmetic condition may be attracting more attention, particularly from a certain forum member. Patience, Matthew. 

This brown-coated 7A38-6020 first appeared, albeit very briefly, late on Tuesday evening, listed by Italian eBay seller simone00simone, with a typically greedy and somewhat fanciful 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 1000 Euros. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113713389129

That listing lasted just over 9 minutes, before being withdrawn, allegedly because of an error in the listing. 

During the short time it was live, that first listing received a total of 11 views.

The Italian eBay seller re-listed it approximately 3 minutes later:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113713399425

The main differences between the original and the re-listing were the selections of photos uploaded. Although it looks the same, even the primary image was slightly different. It appears to have been digitally sharpened. Here are the 15 different images he used for the two listings (some were common to both):

Wonderful vintage Seiko Quartz 7A38-6020 sport 100 nicknamed "chocolate" watch in superb condition, I think it was purchased and then placed in a drawer and almost never worn.

Working watch, chronographs, date change, reset and perfect buttons, fully functional watch.

Contact me for any clarification, I do not accept the return.

Any customs clearance costs are the responsibility of the buyer.

As usual, with most Italian eBay sellers, there is an element of half-truths in the description. This watch has certainly been worn - as evidenced by the 'DNA' visible on the inside of the clasp and the discolouration of (and dirt leached under) the JWC inspection sticker. It has also evidently been exposed for some considerable time to the bright Italian sunlight, rather than spending its entire life in a drawer, because the once orange bezel inlay numbering and dial printing have typically faded to pale yellow. That said, it has obviously been very carefully looked after by the original owner, resulting in minimal wear to the vulnerable brown coating.

Indeed, early yesterday morning, it looked like he might have got away with it, when someone apparently hit the Buy-it-Now button for the full 1000 Euros asking price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113713399425

As then confirmed by this WatchCount.com search result:

But it was back again re-listed about an hour and a half later ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113713871716

I just happened to look at the above re-listing again this afternoon and noticed that Simone's feedback had mysteriously dropped from 199 to 198 since I'd made my previous post this morning. Seems he's picked up a negative for his troubles.

If you can't read the small print (and in case he manages to get it revised), it reads:

bought watch for 200 euros and tries to sell it for 1000 euros a few days later.

The disgruntled eBayer who left him the negative, with a current feedback rating of 5641 is obviously the same person who made an offer on the previous listing, was declined and then hit the Buy-it-Now button. Presumably Buyer's Remorse and / or common sense kicked in afterwards. Or 'Pot calling the kettle black' perhaps ? 

Once I'd had my first cup of coffee and fired up my PC, one of the first things I checked was to see whether the negative feedback left for Simone had been removed or amended. Seems the disgruntled buyer is not going to back down. Earlier this morning (an hour ago @ 06:43), he added a follow up:

In case you can't read the small print, it reads: 

I cancelled purchase as I noticed this is not NOS as described scratches & grime

(Simone never actually described it as 'NOS' at any point, just 'almost never worn'.)

If you check Simone's feedback now, you'll see that negative feedback (and this morning's follow-up) has since been removed. Another whitewash by eBay.

I note with contempt that deranged and embittered would-be Australian eBay seller aussiewatches has decided to slither out from under his rock once again, to launch another personal attack on myself and this site. In the early hours of this morning he regurgitated yet another fallacious 7A38-6020 listing, habitually priced not to sell @ his usual $3999.95 Au. Buy-it-Now price, which incidentally is a factor of 10 times what his own well worn example is worth in real world terms - on a good day.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123733470850

The photo that he's chosen to borrow steal for this particular listing is, of course, not of his own well worn example, but another in far far better condition:

If you zoom in on it, you'll see it's lightly watermarked thewatchcollective in the bottom left hand corner. This photo was the primary image in a US eBay listing, back in January 2014, which you can find documented on the first page of this thread and where he obviously stole it from. I say obviously, because although the eBay listing link surprisingly still works, the eBay hosted images have all long since disappeared into the ether, so there's nowhere else he could have stolen it from.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231133189031

Indeed, checking the website's traffic logs over the last 12 hours, it appears that a returning visitor, with a Melbourne IP address, spent over 30 minutes scrolling through the entire thread. He spent most time on the previous page (7), so must have read the quote below, which prompted another 'toys out of pram' moment ....

Seiko7A38 at March 4, 2019 at 5:11 AM

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the clearly deranged and embittered Australian eBay seller aussiewatches (not that I care one jot), I'm going to add a couple of quick footnotes to this unfinished saga.

If you click on the link I embedded in my previous post, you'll find nothing now. He ended those 3 BOGUS (and potentially fraudulent) eBay listings after a couple of days, in his typical manner - as item no longer available. Not that they ever were. He created another 3 BOGUS listings last week, all of which had his vitriolic tirade against myself in bold red text as a 'description'. Again they're also now 'no longer available'. FWIW, I've documented a couple of them in the 7A38 'Vulcan' thread.

He hasn't made any further attempt to sell his brown coated 7A38-6020 since and looking at his recently modified eBay profile, he may have decided to keep it.

You can actually right click and save the banner image:

Doesn't look quite so attractive there, as some of his other photos, does it ?

This Australian eBay seller may have been an eBay member since March 2012 and racked up a feedback rating of 452, but as the eBay ID history reveals, he's only been trading as aussiewatches since January 2018.

In fact, if you take 10 minutes to scroll through his feedback, very few of them were for transactions selling watches. In the last 6 months, the majority of his feedback received was for selling Minichamps 1:43 model racing cars. Prior to that, he was selling Cod Liver Oil capsules as sunshinesupplements and herbal shampoo and fake baldness remedies as time4hair. Talk about snake oil salesman !  He even managed to pick up a few negative feedbacks earlier in his selling career. These include: 'Disgusting communication after very small issue with item'. My favourite was the one at the bottom of page 11 that says simply 'dumb idiot'.

Needless to say that the Aussie W@nker ended his latest re-listing earlier this morning in his usual cowardly 'hit and run' manner after only 6½ hours.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123733470850

Seiko7A38 at April 11, 2019 at 3:41 AM

This brown-coated 7A38-6020 in average well worn condition was listed early on Monday morning, by a US eBay seller as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $100. FWIW, it's being offered through eBay's dysfunctional GSP programme. It's suffering from all the usual maladies, including coating wear, scuffed crystal, faded bezel inlay and dial printing. That all said, I'm a little surprised that with 3 days of the 7-day auction already passed, it still hasn't attracted an opening bid. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173866415924

That average well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020 did eventually manage to attract a few bids. The 7-day US eBay auction ended early this morning (UK time), with it selling for $271.56 after 7 bids. Funnily enough, that's pretty close to the $399.95 (Au) I reckon our deluded Australian 'friend's similarly worn example is worth. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173866415924

With apologies for the couple of ensuing sizeable quotes from previous pages, but I've just realized something, regarding deranged and embittered Australian eBay seller aussiewatch's brown - sorry 'olive' coated 7A38-6020, that I really should have sussed out a couple of months ago ....

Seiko7A38 at January 4, 2019 at 11:11 AM

Another brown-coated 7A38-6020, in average worn condition, was listed this afternoon by an Australian eBay seller, with a 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $999.95 Au., or the option to make a more sensible much lower offer. It comes supplied with a spare NOS Seiko p/n 310W68GN00 crystal. Incidentally, the seller is also listing a 8123-6280, effectively the small non-chrono' version of the watch, which I mentioned on the first page of this thread.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123578614992

If you've been following this saga and read through the previous page then you'll already know it has been re-listed multiple times since the first week of January, with the original 'pie-in-the-sky' $999.95 Au. Buy-it-Now price increasing in leaps and bounds, first to $1299.95 Au, then $1999.95 Au., $2999.95 Au. and $3999.95 Au. (currently using a stolen photo of a completely different, much better condition example, purely as a means of attracting attention to his hate-fueled diatribes).

But let's get back to 'his' watch. I've already demonstrated that he's not averse to 'borrowing' other people's photos. Look again at his eBay profile banner photo.

When I first saw that, I should have recognized it as another case of Déjà Vu.

It's been cropped from the same larger photo above and rotated through 90°.

That photo is one of a set of 12 images of a brown-coated 7A38-6020, first listed by a Canadian eBay seller in March 2018 and subsequently sold in April 2018, that is documented on page 6 of this thread. Here's my follow up post, with the sale result:

Seiko7A38 at April 10, 2018 at 4:31 AM

Seiko7A38 at March 11, 2018 at 1:45 AM

This brown 'PVD' coated 7A38-6020 was listed yesterday evening by a Canadian eBay seller with a Buy-it-Now price of $499 CA (equivalent to approx. $389 US) and as yet no option to make an offer. It's in typical average worn condition, with some loss of the brown coating and worn right through the black chrome plating to the base metal underneath in the usual places - on the underside of the bracelet and one of the bezel thumb grips.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162939443693

After a fortnight, the Canadian eBay seller relented, revising his listing by adding a 'Best Offer' option. The 7A38-6020 sold yesterday morning, not for the $499.99 CAN Buy-it-Now price ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162939443693

But as revealed by WatchCount.com's Look-up tool, for an offer of $400 CAN:

As confirmed by the eBay Purchase History:

($400 CAN is equivalent to approx. $315.20 USD / £222.60 GBP).

Perhaps, with hindsight, I should also have added that $400 CAN is currently* equivalent to $418.50 AUD. Although aussiewatches has never actually uploaded a photo of his watch's case-back, showing the serial number (for obvious reasons), it's clearly the same watch, s/n 4O5699. For verification, if you click on the link to the eBay Purchase History that I'd included in my quoted post, you'll see that it was purchased by c***a (453) - the same feedback number as aussiewatches.

*The prevailing $ CAD / AUD exchange rate in early April 2018, of approx.1.02 would have given a lower figure of $408 AUD, rather closer to $399.95 AUD. 

Seiko7A38 at April 11, 2019 at 6:56 AM

But it was back again re-listed about an hour and a half later ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113713871716

Checking my eBay watching page, I noticed would-be profiteering Italian eBay seller simone00simone has revised his most recent re-listing for the grossly over-priced brown coated 7A38-6020, by adding another 'new' photo; making that the primary image and re-ordering the other existing photos - as he'd done earlier.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113713871716

Going by the day / date displayed in the photo, he evidently took it at the sime time as the others, but elected not to use it before. It's a nice enough 'head on' shot, but unfortunately only serves to highlight the extent to which the once orange bezel inlay numbering and dial printing have faded badly, to a very pale yellow.

Doesn't seem to have done him much good, because the offers have dried up.

More shenanigans from would-be profiteering Italian eBay seller simone00simone. Earlier this afternoon, he ended the previous recently revised re-listing for the brown-coated 7A38-6020, allegedly because of an error.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113713871716

One would be inclined to agree that there was definitely an error in the pricing.

However, no great surprise, it was back again, re-listed less than 30 seconds later, looking exactly the same as before, with no changes to the pricing nor description.

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113732237657