Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

As readers may have gathered, from a few of my recent posts in other threads, in a moment of weakness (read weeks of self-isolating boredom), I finally caved in and signed up to Instagram. I'm not a big fan of Soshul Meedya (minor understatement) and still don't quite understand the concept of Instagram - other than it seems a way of amassing 'fan boy' followers and accumulating 'Likes'. I haven't posted a single photo on there yet (I may do in due course) and I've already got 4 followers ! 

Instagram does however serve another purpose: like Facebook, it can also be used as an alternative sales platform (to eBay). I've seen a few 7A38's sold on there in the past. This well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020 was listed for sale on Instagram two weeks ago, by an Indonesian @secondarloji who appears to be a dealer.

There's nothing remarkable about it, other than it appears to have been fitted with a replacement silver crown, normally used on the stainless 7A38-6020. I've no idea what the asking price was, nor what it sold for (and care less). As it had already been sold by the time I spotted it, I probably wouldn't have bothered mentioning it.

Were it not for the fact that it popped up on Instagram again, 3 days ago, posted by another Indonesian jam.jaman. Clearly the same watch; the silver crown being the obvious giveaway, but the hands are now completely devoid of lume and it's been fitted with a notched 'vintage look' leather strap, in place of the original bracelet.

There's also a short 'around the wrist' video which was posted about the same time.

Thankfully there are better examples of the brown-coated 7A38-6020 on Instagram. This one, posted a week ago belongs to seikocollectorxl. The caption reads as if he treated himself to a present. Belated Happy Birthday greetings !

Seiko7A38 at April 18, 2020 at 11:23 AM

Seiko7A38 at April 1, 2020 at 3:22 PM

The above Catawiki 5-day auction for a well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a Lizard strap, ended a few moments ago, with the bidding @ 247 Euros and just as I'd predicted, with the reserve price not met - unsold.

http://www.catawiki.com/lots/35670863-seiko-vintage-chronograph-quartz-7a38-6020-ao-men-1970-1979

For anybody who might be interested, that well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a Lizard strap is back on Catawiki, re-listed earlier today as another 5-day auction, with an opening bid price of 1 Euro. Once again there is a reserve price set, so unless the seller has lowered it significantly, I suspect the outcome may be the same as last time. Quickly scan reading it, all the listing details (posted higher up this page) appear to be the same as before, so I won't bother duplicating them.

http://www.catawiki.com/l/36302825-seiko-vintage-chronograph-quartz-7a38-6020-ao-men-1970-1979

I didn't bother watching it ending, because I was fairly certain of the outcome. The alternative ended item summary shows that it was only bid to 215 Euros this time around, compared to 247 Euros last month.

This morning, yet another Catawiki auction email notification landed in my inbox.

I don't know why I receive notifications of every goddam watch auction they hold. It must be something set up in my preferences (that I need to change). I don't always bother looking at them, because I have a few saved searches that should, in theory, find anything that I'm actually interested in, naturally including one on 'Seiko 7A38'. As it happened, that little Omega De Ville 'Yin Yang' watch in the thumbnail intrigued me, so I decided to 'Take a Look'. After I'd done so, I scrolled down the other lots in that auction to find this brown-coated 7A38-6020 !

Presumably I hadn't received any notification of it, because the Spanish seller had cocked up the model number - typing 7038 instead of 7A38. Amusingly, look at the time remaining, when I took my screen print of the listing.

http://www.catawiki.com/l/36608265-seiko-chronograph-sports-5-no-reserve-price-7038-6020-men-2011-present

The seller's negative feedbacks % didn't exactly inspire confidence.

But then I started to get that horrible feeling of Double Déjà Vu.

This same, supposedly NOS brown-coated 7A38-6020, case-back serial # 511229 has featured a number of times before on pages 9 and 10 of this thread.

It was first listed by the devious Spanish eBay seller Walton-Willer in July 2019, with a ludicrous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 1500 Euros and eventually sold in January this year, for a slightly more realistic 493 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274202066655

Which also begs the question why Catawiki's alleged expert's estimate is only € 300 - € 350.

The auction ended a few moments ago. I seem to have won it for 380 Euros (my maximum bid), whereas by my reckoning, I should have won it (by automatic bid increments) for 260 Euros (+ 9% buyer's commission). 

https://www.catawiki.com/l/36608265

Although I won that auction for my maximum bid price, understandably, I wasn’t enamoured at the prospect of paying 120 Euros more than the losing bidder.  I attempted to contact Catawiki customer service to determine what had gone wrong. I don’t believe they actually exist in human form, but instead, have been replaced by automatons and bots, whose sole purpose is to refer you back to the FAQ’s. Which told me sweet FA. I had 3 days in which to pay. After some deliberation, I decided I wasn’t going to. I already have an almost mint brown-coated 7A38-6020 in my collection and really didn’t need another lesser example at the inflated bid price.

Catawiki started sending me daily automated emails, reminding me that I had an unpaid invoice. That went on for another week, before it finally went quiet. Then on May 20th they emailed me informing me that because I still hadn’t paid, they were cancelling the purchase agreement. Fine by me, except they seem to be labouring under a delusion that I still owe them the 9% auction fee (their commission on 380 Euros would be 34.20 Euros). There’s an answer to that – and it’s not polite.

The Spanish seller re-listed it at his earliest opportunity, end of last week – on 22nd May, exactly same as before, complete with the same ‘7038’ error in the title. 

http://www.catawiki.com/l/37550537-seiko-chronograph-sports-5-no-reserve-price-7038-6020-men-2011-present

The re-listed auction ended a few moments ago, with bidding @ a mere 225 Euros.

http://www.catawiki.com/l/37550537

Am I unduly bothered ? Absolutely not. 

Harking back to that other well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a lizard strap, which was first listed on Catawiki, back in March (see higher up the page) ....

Seems that I'd previously omitted to mention that the deluded US seller had also listed it, in parallel on eBay around the same time, in the last week of March, with a ludicrous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $455.55 !! I didn't spot it immediately, because the seller had cocked up the model number in both title and description. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392735572573

I'm not going to bother uploading the photos, because they're the same as they've used in their various Catawiki auctions (posted on the previous page).

Seiko 7A M38 -6020 AO 

Case size 43mm

New leather strap 

Very rare model excellent movement quartz 

It is perfect working keeping the correct time. 

The pushers works to cero. 

The stopwatch works. 

The pictures are important part the description. Please study them very carefully before bidding, 

We will not cover the return postage if we agreed to return the watch by any reason. 

Please make sure you are 100% happy with the images and description, have no questions and are 100% sure to buy this item before you bidding. 

"if your win the auction, you must complete the transaction." 

Ask your question before bid. 

Please attention :All customs, taxes or duties are your responsibility. 

Shipping for united states fedex 3-5 days. 

International ship Dhl express 6-10 days.

That listing ended a few days ago, with a fairly predictable outcome - unsold.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392735572573

They haven't re-listed it on eBay since, but have continued to do so on Catawiki. Their latest re-listed auction ended yesterday evening:

http://www.catawiki.com/l/38290101-seiko-vintage-chronograph-quartz-7a38-6020-ao-men-1970-1979

This time it was only bid to 145 Euros !

FWIW - here's the latest re-listing. 

http://www.catawiki.com/l/38684527-seiko-vintage-chronograph-quartz-7a38-6020-ao-men-1970-1979

Very remiss of me.  I'd forgotten to check on that most recent Catawiki auction re-listing for the well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a lizard strap. This time around it was only bid to 100 Euros !

And so it goes on, seemingly ad nauseam. In fact, I really don't know why I'm even bothering to post this latest update to this sorry saga. But as it happened, I'd run a couple of searches on Catawiki last Friday and noticed the stubborn would-be US seller had just re-listed his well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a Lizard strap, yet again, for the nth time. Don't ask me why, but I watched it once again. 

http://www.catawiki.com/l/39407829-seiko-vintage-chronograph-quartz-7a38-6020-ao-men-1970-1979

By late morning, with 12 hours remaining, bidding had only reached 7 Euros !! 

Just for the heck of it - and out of bemused curiosity, I watched this latest re-listing ending live, which it did a couple of minutes ago. This time around it actually made 150 Euros, but naturally, the reserve price wasn't met again. 

This unashamed plug for the forthcoming sale of a NOS condition brown-coated 7A38-6020 was posted on Instagram yesterday by morningtonwatches, a.k.a. Seiko dealer, trainee watchmaker and newly joined forum member seikochris.

His original post stated:

Full details, more photos and pricing were supposed to follow. But if you read the subsequent replies, transpires it had already been sold by lunchtime today.

Hi, 

First post on the forum!

I am Chris from Mornington Watches who sold the above 7A38-6020. 

The watch was an absolute dream as the condition was so good. Just to explain the process of the sale and in reply to Paul, the above Instagram post was uploaded before the release of the watch on my website, and from that I had a few messages asking about the watch. It was then uploaded to my website a couple of hours after the initial instagram post, and was publicised as available on my Insta story. The watch was uploaded at 5pm and it sold at about midnight. It was one of the fastest selling watches I've sold, but in some cases I've had watches that sell before they even hit the website. 

Full details and pictures of the watch can be found here for those who may be interested:

https://morningtonwatches.com/products/1985-seiko-sq-sports-100-7a38-6020-quartz-chronograph

As a dealer with sold watches, I have to be careful with disclosing sale prices to protect the interests of the buyer so I will not post this on here. Although I will say that the sale price was very strong and reflected the condition of the watch.

Hope this helps!

Best 

Chris

Thanks for your post, Chris. Though I have to express my disappointment that you appear to have changed your mind after having written in your Instagram message: i'll reply on the forum with the value etc.. Particularly as the exceptional selling price achieved was of the order (if not higher than) one might expect to pay for an equivalent stainless version in similar NOS condition.

(Photos removed in response to compliant received of copyright infringement.)

From the sublime to the borderline ridiculous ....

This well-worn brown coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a garish orange Lorica strap in place of the original bracelet, came up in a Subito saved search notification result yesterday evening. The Italian seller is asking 300 Euros. Although the 'Chocolate Orange' combination is rather striking, it's been poorly executed. Note how badly the strap has been notched in the last photo.

http://www.subito.it/hobby-collezionismo/seiko-crono-vintage-1980-giugiaro-design-7a38-6020-padova-354483003.htm

Regrettably, I find it necessary to add a belated postscript to my earlier posts about the very nice NOS example of 7A38-6020 SAA043J sold last month by Mornington Watches. I now better understand Chris’s reluctance to divulge the ‘record level’ selling price he achieved. Although he did reveal the actual figure to me in a DM conversation on Instagram, he also stated that he generally withholds selling prices ‘in the interests of the buyer’. I suspect there may be rather more to it than that, particularly in instances such as this.

Chris is a genuine watch enthusiast and budding trainee watchmaker, but he is also a dealer, with an eye for a quick fat profit. I had considered about asking him where he’d found it, but didn’t bother at the time, on the basis it was unlikely he’d disclose his source, and even less likely what he’d actually paid for it.

Historically, the majority of brown-coated 7A38-6020’s, especially NOS examples, have turned up in Italy. I should have guessed that’s where this one came from. It was Chris’s recent eBay listing for a 7A38-704B with a similar but somewhat lower, borderline astronomic, asking price that belatedly led me to find it, albeit some six weeks post facto - because the NOS 7A38-6020 that he re-sold at vast profit last month came from the same Italian eBay seller.

It was listed late on the evening of August Bank Holiday Monday, with a Buy-it-Now price of a 350 Euros - which wasn't unreasonable, with the option to make an offer. The evidently inexperienced Italian seller failed to include the case-back model number in either his listing title or description - just the SAA043J sales code, which might explain why Chris risked making the seller a lower best offer, rather than immediately hitting the Buy-it-Now button. The Italian eBay seller had also only uploaded two photos – one rather lacklustre; the other showing the hang tag.

However, rather surprisingly, the feedback that Chris left for seller guedago-0 reveals he actually paid him 300 Euros as a best offer. Talk about 'a steal'.

I could follow that with a pun about 'Daylight Robbery'. Chris may take a nice photograph and his listings, be it on eBay or his own website are very professional, but that hardly justifies his mark-up of well over three times his purchase price. Evidently there are buyers out there willing to pay his extortionate asking prices. 

I guessed it was just a matter of time before that brown-coated 7A38-6020 rocked up on Instagram, or on one of the forums. Yesterday evening, avid US collector Robert Lambert (a.k.a power90801) posted a few pictures of it here on Instagram

.... and also a couple in a WRUW thread on SCWF. This is actually the same photo, but uncropped and without the benefit of Instagram's suntan-enhancing filter.

It's indubitably the same 7A38-6020; the tell-tale evidence is the light scratch on the outer edge of the acrylic bezel inlay, between the 45 and 48 marks, clearly visible in Bob's photos. It was mentioned in the description on Mornington Watches website:

Rotating bezel: Original. Mint. A very light mark on the bezel insert (between 40 and 50 markers) but this is almost invisible.

Examining them again, it's also just discernible in Chris's photos, but rather fainter - most clearly seen in his website listing's primary image.

(Photo removed in response to compliant received of copyright infringement.)

This brown coated 7A38-6020 in average worn condition (suffering a number of small chips to the outer PVD coating) appeared almost out of the blue* yesterday evening, listed by an Italian eBay seller with a typically optimistic 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 600 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143813813383

The description reads simply: VUOTO NON ACQUISTARE

Which strangely translates literally as: EMPTY DO NOT BUY

*Checking the item revision history reveals how and why it appeared mysteriously. The seller edited all aspects of the listing yesterday evening @ 17:57, presumably converting it from either a pre-existing draft or something else. The original listing was by then already over a week old, having been first created on 30th October.

By coincidence, within a couple of hours, the other hapless Italian seller re-listed his brown-coated 7A38-6020 (first listed nearly a year ago on November 18th 2019, the one fitted with the wrong case-back off a 7A38-7260) for the umpteenth time. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154168380340

Seems I was a tad premature posting the details of that brown-coated 7A38-6020, listed by the Italian eBay seller last week. Evidently they hadn't finished, by a long way. A day later they revised just about every detail of the listing, for a second time.

Changes included adding a lengthy description and increasing their previous already unrealistic 'pie-in-the-sky Buy-it-Now price from 600 to 750 Euros. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143813813383

Higher up the page, on 1st October, I posted details of well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a lurid orange Lorica strap, that I'd seen on the Italian classified site Subito. That listing is no longer live - so presumably it was sold.

Late yesterday evening, what is obviously the same well-worn 7A38-6020 (the lurid orange strap is a bit of a giveaway) resurfaced on eBay, listed by an Italian seller as a 5-day auction with a highly optimistic opening bid price of 250 Euros. As originally listed, the seller had only uploaded one single badly oriented photo.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203182458269

Seiko vintage orologio Crono Giugiaro 7A38-6020 quartz 40 mm - RARISSIMO. La condizione "Usato".

Belated Edit: Nearly a day later, the seller revised the listing, rotating that primary image and adding 8 more photos. He also amended the description (much to my amusement). See below

Seiko vintage orologio Crono Giugiaro 7A38-6020 quartz 40 mm - RARISSIMO in good working conditions have just one sign of use visible in photo. come as in photo. 

• Asta parte da solo 250 € / bid start 250 € 

• Spedizione in Italia 10 euro / Shipping in European Union 20 euro 

• Shipping in USA 25 € 

• for shipping outside or Island (Canary island .....) please contact me before you bid it

Only 'just one sign of use visible in photo.' ???

Hang on a minute. Let me get some stronger reading glasses.

Evidently the deluded Italian eBay seller technology1980 is another who likes to play 'now you see it, now you don't ... games. At lunchtime today, he ended his much revised 'original' listing as allegedly no longer available. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143813813383

He re-listed it a couple of minutes later, with the already ridiculous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price increased to 772.50 Euros !!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143845418099

Seiko7A38 at June 25, 2020 at 5:51 AM

Harking back to that other well-worn brown-coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a lizard strap, which was first listed on Catawiki, back in March (see higher up the page) ....

Seems that I'd previously omitted to mention that the deluded US seller had also listed it, in parallel on eBay around the same time, in the last week of March, with a ludicrous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $455.55 !! I didn't spot it immediately, because the seller had cocked up the model number in both title and description. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392735572573

That listing ended a few days ago, with a fairly predictable outcome - unsold.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392735572573

I was quietly hoping that one might have gone away. Fat chance. I'd incorrectly assumed from their ever-diminishing Catawiki auction results that the deluded US seller might finally have got the message and given up. Wrong !

It's back on eBay again, re-listed yesterday evening, with the previous ridiculous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $455.55 now increased to $559.99 !.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393061310854

I note with amusement that they've finally managed to get the model number correct in their listing title. Something else I've noticed is that previously the aptly named seller patinawatchstore gave their location as West Palm Beach, Florida, whereas in this listing it's Brooklyn, New York. so perhaps they've come out of retirement.