Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at September 20, 2016 at 9:52 AM

I noticed the above (30-day) Buy-it-Now listing for a brown-coated 7A38-6020 was ended early by the Italian seller this morning. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262599306809

The error was obviously in the 'pie-in-the-sky' pricing. 

It was back on eBay again, re-listed as a low-start no reserve auction a matter of seconds later.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252548746995

That re-listed auction for a brown coated 7A38-6020 ended about 15 minutes ago, selling for 279.99 Euros after 25 bids.

A rather more realistic price, compared to the Italian eBay seller's original 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 700 Euros. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252548746995

I spotted a brown-coated 7A38-6020, which had the coating partially stripped from its bezel, that was listed on Italian free classified site Subito.it a week or so ago.

http://www.subito.it/abbigliamento-accessori/seiko-7a38-6020-quartz-chrono-sport-100-vintage-caserta-178790879.htm

The photo didn't immediately click. Then that nagging sense of Déjà Vu kicked in - and the penny dropped ....

Seiko7A38 at May 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM

Meanwhile, when I was searching Italian free classified site, Subito.it earlier this week, I spotted another one ....

At the other extreme of the cosmetic condition scale, looking, it has to be said, just a tad scabby ! 

http://www.subito.it/abbigliamento-accessori/orologio-seiko-7a38-6020-rarrissimo-caserta-158552743.htm

It's the same 'scabby' example I posted at the bottom of page 3 of this thread in May of this year. The different photo / background is what threw me initially. It's possibly been cleaned up a bit, maybe the bezel has been polished. But if you look carefully at the new photo, there still appear to be some of those white deposits under the crystal. Probably still best avoided.

Seiko7A38 at September 25, 2016 at 9:55 AM

Here's a pretty horrible example of what once was a brown coated 7A38-6020, that probably fits just as well in this other thread.

Except I cant be bothered to post it there as well, as I've done with a previous example. Besides, this one hasn't been completely stripped of its coating - just the bezel and the top side of the bracelet, leaving the watch case and underside of the bracelet in the original chocolate brown finish. Bit of a half-hearted job - watch ruined. Listed on eBay Italy (where else ?) earlier this afternoon.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162216856756

• Usato e originale

• SEIKO SPORTS 100 VERY RARE BROWN FINISH

The less said about the seller's brief description the better. 

That eBay auction for the partially stripped brown coated 7A38-6020 ended about 10 minutes ago, selling for 157 Euros after 6 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162216856756

Whoever the winning bidder was, they must have had second thoughts, because soon afterwards, the Italian eBay seller re-listed it as a Buy-it-Now for 175 Euros. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162226838573

And it's gone again - withdrawn yesterday morning - hopefully for good. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162226838573

Throughout this topic I've commented on faded dial printing on several used examples of brown-coated 7A38-6020. It's quite common, but not always so obvious as faded bezel inlay numbering. The dark metallic brown (not black) 602L XB29 dial was mostly printed in Gold, but SPORTS 100 and the two larger sub-dials were in bright Orange. The latter fades to a yellow almost the same shade as the gold, so unless you knew what to look for you'd probably be none the wiser. First time I've seen this dial, listed as NOS, on eBay this afternoon, by a Dutch seller - a self-proclaimed expert.  Their photo isn't particulary clear, plus the dial face is partially covered by its protective film, but it's still possible to see the contrast between the two colours.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122218438946

I had to chuckle at the   poor grammar in their description, but grimaced at the extortionate $120 Buy-it-Now asking price. 

That said, I've been collecting spare parts to restore my original 'beater' 7A38-6020 for over 5 years now. To date, I've amassed a NOS bezel, crystal, chrono' hands (sweep and sub-dial 'tuning fork') and a Z1207H bracelet. All I really need was that 602L dial. So after agonizing about the price for about 10 minutes, I reluctantly hit the Buy-it-Now button. 

Seiko7A38 at August 22, 2016 at 12:17 PM

Seiko7A38 at June 5, 2016 at 4:15 AM

It seems the buyer took my advice and got a refund. 

Because this morning it's back on eBay again - still with the same ludicrous $1500 Buy-it-Now price. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262469096523

There is however a subtle difference with this re-listing. The would-be profiteering re-seller chicaogoody seller has re-used the same first 7 photos from his original listing in April (see bottom of previous page), but not the last two which showed the watch alongside a NOS bezel. The description now simply reads:

NOS Seiko 7A38-6020 in the very rare brown coating.

It appears that would-be profiteering eBay re-seller chicagogoody finally managed to shift that brown-coated 7A38-6020. 

Checking my eBay watching page, it appears to have sold early yesterday evening - allegedly for a reduced price of $850.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262469096523

The way the different eBay domains display ended listings can sometimes be misleading, because that's not the sale price.

It appears he changed the Buy-it-Now price on August 10th, which I'd failed to spot previously:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=262469096523

According to an ended listings summary on eBay.com, it actually sold for a Best Offer against the reduced B-I-N of $850.

Unfortunately, Goofbid's eBay Best Offer History tool has, so far, failed to pick it up what it actually sold for on this occasion. 

Goodwill to all men at this time of year ?  Bah Humbug says I ! 

Especially scum of the earth would-be profiteering re-sellers like chicagogoody. 

                                                                         

This poor example of a brown coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a leather strap in place of the original Z1207H bracelet, was listed yesterday evening by an Italian eBay seller, with an over-optimistic opening bid price of 200 Euros. Reasons to avoid (apart from the price and lack of bracelet) ? All the usual ones: worn coating on the bezel finger grips, showing the black chrome underneath; faded bezel inlay numbering and dial printing, etc. It would also appear, from the seller's second photo, given the distortion in this side view and that it protrudes so far above the bezel, it's been badly fitted with a non-original (domed, flat-bottomed) replacement crystal. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172504898648

OROLOGIO SEIKO QUARTZ 7A38-6020

IN WORKING CONDITION 

NO BOX NO PAPERS 

DON’T KNOW SERVICE HISTORY

So much for the seller claiming he doesn't know the service history.  I was googling images on 7A38-6020 yesterday (of more anon) and found these three, posted on Imgur.com. The uploader is 'Deepsea' on Kronos.org, an Italian watch forum. From the unusual ding in the inner lip of the bezel, between the 3 and 4 minute marks, it's clearly the same watch, albeit then fitted with a different leather strap and the original double-domed Seiko crystal.

If you've read all the way through this topic, you'll no doubt have noticed I've made several references to faded bezel inlay numbering on various examples of the brown coated 7A38-6020 - including some NOS examples. The printing lies underneath an acrylic overlay. The bezel numbering on this model was originally orange and fades, with prolonged exposure to sunlight, to a pale yellow - and in worst cases (see example on page 1 of this thread) to off-white. The same phenomenon also affects the stainless 7A38-6020 and also the 7A38-705A (but strangely not the 7A38-7050), which have similar acrylic bezel inlays. A number of owners (and one in particular) have disputed this fact.

As I wrote in my previous post, yesterday I was googling images on 7A38-6020. I found a recent topic on an Italian watch forum.

http://kronos.freeforums.org/parliamo-di-seiko-f28-t5715.html  Seiko Sports 7A38 6020. Un cronografo affascinante.

The thread was started by a poster using the handle Seikosha, (a moderator on Kronos.org) whom if i'm not mistaken, is the same person as 6309-7049 on this forum - Manuel (from Rimini). Here's a screen print of Manuel's first post, translated by Google:

.... and the 3 photos embedded in his post:

Manuel begins the second paragraph of his post:

I present two copies, one is practically new, still with plastic on the back, worn only a few times, it bought NOS after a long negotiation with the seller (a watchmaker Rimini) lasted years.

These two specimens differ in one detail: the color of the insert ring screen printing. Orange in a pattern and yellow in the other (the photo does not do, but live is evident).

Not wishing to criticize a fellow collector's watches, but we've discussed this before and I will contradict him. The reason for the yellow bezel inlay printing on Manuel's NOS 7A38-6020 is not a manufacturing variation (as he implies). It's because it's faded - from having been sat, unsold for 20-odd years in the window of a Rimini jeweller's shop before he bought it ! 

Yes but the current listing on Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172504898648

has very yellow hands that don't look as though they have faded?  Or is the watch also available in yellow?

Seiko7A38 at January 29, 2017 at 10:56 AM

This poor example of a brown coated 7A38-6020, fitted with a leather strap in place of the original Z1207H bracelet, was listed yesterday evening by an Italian eBay seller, with an over-optimistic opening bid price of 200 Euros. Reasons to avoid (apart from the price and lack of bracelet) ? All the usual ones: worn coating on the bezel finger grips, showing the black chrome underneath; faded bezel inlay numbering and dial printing, etc. It would also appear, from the seller's second photo, given the distortion in this side view and that it protrudes so far above the bezel, it's been badly fitted with a non-original (domed, flat-bottomed) replacement crystal. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172504898648

The above auction for that 7A38-6020 on a leather strap ended earlier this evening, selling for the opening bid price of 150 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172566024648

Slightly belated post. This brown-coated 7A38-6020 was advertised for sale at the end of February, on the Italian watch forum Orologi & Passioni, with an asking price of € 500 Euros 'slightly negotiable'. The overall colour looks slightly odd in most of the seller's photos - more grey than dark brown - and almost black in the last one.  There appeared to minimal wear to the PVD coating, but like many other examples it was suffering fom the usual faded bezel inlay numbering and dial printing. Regardless it seems to have sold.

http://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=73726048 [VENDUTO] Vendo raro Seiko 7A38-6020

This average condition brown-coated 7A38-6020 was listed earlier this morning by an Italian ebay seller, with a low start opening bid price of 1 Euro and no reserve. Like many previous examples in this thread, it's suffering from the usual faded bezel inlay numbering and dial printing and has rubbing wear to the coating of the bezel rim and bracelet. But the seller's listing title* raised a smile. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252922708358

L'orologio si present in buonissime condizioni funziona molto bene a auliche graffio sul fondello e qualche sbiadimento sul cinturino molto raro poiché è l versione con la ghiera arancione il riporta una crepa sul vetro come da foto probabilmente è d sostituire per il resto è un vero spettacolo. Buon asta a tutti.

*By his inclusion of: By The Number(s) - presumably picked up from the subtitle I gave this website.

See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/by_the_numbers

Etymology

The origin of this phrase goes back to the American Revolutionary War where a book containing numbered positions for rifle and bayonet practice was used to train soldiers. In the book, each diagram was numbered.

Prepositional phrase

By the numbers - (idiomatic) to do something exactly, precisely, or in a formulaic way.

The above Italian eBay auction for a brown-coated 7A38-6020 ended this morning selling for 171 Euros after 15 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252922708358

Checking my eBay watching page this morning, I noticed that long running listing for a NOS 7A38-6020 bezel, by profiteering US eBay re-seller chicagogoody had been ended yesterday afternoon, because the item was no longer available.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252727354521

When he'd first listed it in December 2016 (see my post higher up the page), the Buy-it-Now price was $150. The above summary shows $99.99, but I remember seeing it fairly recently reduced as low as $59.99 - and even then it didn't sell.

Here's a summary of the revisions made: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=252727354521

I make that a total of SIXTEEN changes to the Buy-it-Now price in 7 months ! 

Can't say I'm not glad to see the back of it - and this greedy scumbag seller !  Hopefully it'll be the last. 

Earlier today I received an email notification of a forthcoming auction for a brown coated 7A38-6020 by Liveauctioneers.com.

The actual auction is being held by Watches of Knightsbridge on 16th September. 

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/108312_modern-and-vintage-timepieces/

This is Lot number 0153: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/55563228_a-rare-gentleman-s-brown-pvd-coated-seiko-sports-100

The opening bid price is a laughably over-optimistic £700 (equivalent to approx. $900 USD), with an estimate of £700 to £900 (joke), to which any foolhardy buyer would need to add a further 25% Buyers Premium - and then another 20% VAT on top of that !!

There's currently only the one photo included in the listing:

The description doesn't tell you a great deal, but that one photo was enough to identify precisely which 7A38-6020 this actually is ....

It's a watch that has already featured in this thread on numerous previous occasions, starting at the top of page 3 back in April 2015.

The giveaway being those small grazes to the bezel's brown PVD coating, near 50 on the Tachymeter scale. Oh, Yes and then there's the faded bezel inlay numbering and dial printing that I've also mentioned umpteen times before in my previous posts. 

Here's a brief summary of this watch's previous sales history. (You can read the full story for yourselves on pages 3 and 4).

It first appeared on eBay in April 2015, offered as a low start auction by Italian seller maddys65. It sold on 21/04/2015 for 412 Euros (approx. $450). That auction was won by US collector Mike Mounce. As I wrote at the time, I wasn't quite sure why Mike bought it, because he already owned a nicer example, but he does appear to have swapped the case-back. Mike offered it FS on the SCWF Trading Post in June 2015, asking $425 (which is when I noticed it was now fitted with case-back serial # 4O5756). He also listed it on eBay (seller ID pmounce) asking $450 as a Buy-it-Now. It sold off eBay for $375 on 23/06/2015 to US collector Peter Taubman, who from his email, clearly seemed to be in denial about the faded bezel numbering. He, in turn, listed it on eBay (seller ID gr8sw) in January 2016 asking $695 as a Buy-it-Now, but sold it on 26/01/2016 for a Best Offer of $510. It was purchased by a would-be profiteering re-seller of the worst kind.

This US eBay seller chicagogoody first listed it in April 2016, offered with a NOS bezel and an absolutely ludicrous Buy-it-Now asking price of $1500 !!  To add insult to injury, he was offering it through eBay's GSP programme, which would have added a further $400+ in charges on top !  It was automatically re-listed ad nauseam, for at least 4 months, until in August, the would-be seller dropped the Buy-it-Now price down to $850, at the same time removing the NOS bezel from the listing. It finally sold against a best offer on 21/08/2016. At the time I was using Goofbid's eBay Best Offer History tool, which had become less than reliable, so I wasn't able to determine exactly how much that offer was for. Time to put that earler omission to rights. It was actually $725. 

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsLogin&item=262469096523

So one year on, like a bad penny, it's turned up once again, offered by someone who's asking a pretty penny for it. Assuming that common sense prevails, I doubt it'll attract a single bid in this forthcoming auction. But the fact that someone's trying to sell it again probably means we haven't seen the last of it. 

Seiko7A38 at August 3, 2017 at 7:11 AM

Checking my eBay watching page this morning, I noticed that long running listing for a NOS 7A38-6020 bezel, by profiteering US eBay re-seller chicagogoody had been ended yesterday afternoon, because the item was no longer available.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252727354521

When he'd first listed it in December 2016 (see my post higher up the page), the Buy-it-Now price was $150. The above summary shows $99.99, but I remember seeing it fairly recently reduced as low as $59.99 - and even then it didn't sell.

Here's a summary of the revisions made: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=252727354521

I make that a total of SIXTEEN changes to the Buy-it-Now price in 7 months ! 

Can't say I'm not glad to see the back of it - and this greedy scumbag seller !  Hopefully it'll be the last. 

Speaking of bad pennies turning up - it's back again. 

The same NOS bezel, that was allegedly no longer available, was re-listed by chicagogoody earlier this afternoon. 

This time he's offering it through eBay's GSP program. The current Buy-it-Now price is $69.99 - but watch this space. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263190797904