Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

I thought I'd start a little topic on the under-appreciated JAZ Paris N8's. I've always had a soft spot for the two-tone Panda model # N8YZ669. This lunchtime I replaced the batteries in two of mine - which is what prompted this bout of keyboard bashing. Here's a slightly different wrist shot to the couple I just posted in the WRUW thread:

While I was at it, I thought I'd take a group photo of my 3 examples of this version.

Only the watch in the centre is fitted with (what I've assumed to be) it's original JAZ Paris branded leather strap. It's a lightly padded glossy finish 'Mock Croc'.

The one on the left, which was the first example I bought, back in February 2011, came fitted with a horrid Speidel FixoFlex stainless bracelet (or something similar).

I replaced it with a black Yema strap with white stitching, which seemed appropriate. The one on the right came fitted with a brown leather strap branded 'Beverly Hills Polo Club'. I replaced that with the slightly used heavily padded black leather strap you can see in those photos - particularly the wrist shot at the top. I can't remember what it came off, but It works quite well with the bulbous watch case lugs, IMHO.

A couple points to note from my 3-way group shot photo. The plastic Tachymeter ring of my first example has yellowed quite badly with age / exposure to sunlight. You'll sometimes see the same thing on dressy Yema N8's. Similarly, there can be variations in the intensity of the black dial printing. My best example, in the centre, has noticeably darker / heavier printing. I don't think this is due to fading, more likely variations in the dial manufacture tampo process. Again, you'll see this with white Yema N8 dials.

Unfortunately, none of my own watches, of either version, have come supplied with their original boxes. However I believe I know what the correct style of JAZ Paris presentation box for this watch may have been. One was included with a N8YZ669 listed on eBay in the States, back in January 2013:

I was going to bid on it, but as I wrote in the Yema N8's spotted thread at the time:

I was going to have a punt at it myself, but then I noticed someone had already placed a bid on it (thereby removing the Buy-it-Now option for $150). I recognized the bidder's ID immediately, as one belonging to a collector who regularly bids on 7Axx's, but doesn't often have much in the way of luck - until recently. A man I know simply as 'Don', from trading the odd eBay message with him. It was he who had first told me of the existence of the JAZ '7A38's a couple of years ago. So it seemed the decent thing not to outbid him. Fortunately nobody else did. 

However looking again at a second photo of the box (which I'd saved, but hadn't bothered to upload to my post), the label shows a totally different reference: 2020H and a price of 'only' $450, which I'd previously incorrectly suspected as being rather too low, when most Yema N8's were retailing for $600 - $800. As you'll see from my subsequent posts, it transpires that was the Jaz product sales code.

I've certainly seen this exact same style of presentation box with numerous JAZ Paris ladies' watches. It's very 1980's - a sort of beige / light grey alcantara with velour interior. Rightly or wrongly, last July, I finally caved in and bought myself a couple of them off eBay in the States.

I just hadn't got around to putting one of my JAZ N8's in and taking a photo before:

I've never seen any old advertisements for these particular JAZ Paris watches, which might have indicated their retail price. If I'm honest, I haven't really looked that hard in recent years. I did spot this one, listed on eBay in the States way back in February 2011 (around the same time as I bought my first N8YZ669 and briefly started researching them):

It's a similar looking non-chrono' design - a three-hander with date @ 6 o'clock.

According to my image caption, the full-page advertisment was published in the September 1985 issue of Esquire men's magazine.

Back in the day, JAZ was a mainstream French watch manufacturer, ranking along with the likes of Yema, etc. They were probably best known, certainly in the 1950's 1960's and 1970's as a maker of alarm clocks. For anyone interested there's a dedicated thread on the French watch forum Forumamontres: La boîte à JAZ

As can be seen from a later post in that thread, the decline of JAZ as an individual brand started in 1983 when they were absorbed, along with Yema and Framelec, into a consortium owned by Matra Holdings. Yema had already been producing JAZ branded watches since 1982. The JAZ Paris brand was then used specifically to target the US market (much to the chagrin of the Forumamontres thread author).

There's also a JAZ website: http://www.jazwatch.com/chrono-jaz-aiment-vaincre/

Unfortunately JAZ's decline as an individual brand didn't end there. In 1988, Matra Holdings effectively sold out to Seiko France, forming the new larger consortium, C.G.H. (Compagnie Générale Horlogère).

From 1988 onwards, JAZ became just another albeit ostensibly French sub-brand of Seiko (C.G.H), using Hattori quartz movements in their watches, as dictated by their Japanese owners. Hence fortuitously the existence of the JAZ N8 '7A38'.

It's not as if these are a new discovery. Over the years, apart from posting a few wrist shots in the WRUW thread, I've written about various eBay listings for JAZ Paris N8's in the Yema N7's and N8's spotted... thread, on at least half a dozen occasions. One common factor stands out. They almost always turn up, listed on eBay in the States, which is what initially convinced me that they were specifically manufactured for and targeted at the lucrative US export market. However, there was one notable exception - a N8YZ669, which was listed by a German eBay seller in February 2017. You may recognise it from the photo below as one I bought. The full details of the listing are at the bottom of page 22 of the aforementioned thread.

Apart from being a nice example, I wanted it for the Instruction manual / Warranty booklet that came with it. The cover states 'Caliber V906', which powers it, of course being the Shimauchi Ltd. re-branded version of the Seiko 7A38A movement used in all C.G.H. produced 7A38's: Yema; Jaz, Kamatz, Loris Azzaro, Fred Force 10, etc.

No great surprise that the contents of the manual are in the usual Seiko format:

On the last page of the manual is a list of COSERV service centres .... 

The complete absence of any European service locations confirms my earlier assumption that these watches were only ever intended for the US market. 

When writing about these dressy Jaz N8's, I'll often use the word 'little' in describing them. It's just a bad habit of mine and not strictly true. They're not much smaller than your average Seiko 7A38, being 37.9mm diameter and a shade over 10mm deep, with 18mm between the lugs. What gives the impression of being smaller is their crystal, which is only 27.5mm in. diameter. The reduced viewable area of the dial plate is achieved by using a much smaller diameter Tachymeter ring:

From inside the watch case, everything else is standard 'Seiko 7A38' (apart from the re-branded Shimauchi Ltd. V906 movement back-plate and the blank battery positive plate - as found in all C.G.H. / Yema N8's).

For what appears to have been intended as a dress watch, they're quite chunky. The complete watch on its original JAZ branded strap weighs 60.8 grammes. Of that total, 35.0 grammes is accounted for by the bare empty watch case (with pushers). I believe that the watch case is brass, or an alloy of it. I'd originally thought that the N8YZ669 was chrome plated, but from what I've since seen on some dressy Orient J39's, I believe it's actually Palladium, which is just as shiny. There's nothing on the case-back to indicate the actual watch case material:

Just STAINLESS STEEL BACK and BASE METAL BEZEL. Incidentally, the 6 removal notches on Jaz N8's are very shallow (compared to Seiko 7Axx's), so it's rare to see one without the usual clumsy slipped tool marks on the highly polished case-back. 

Did I also mention that Jaz N8's can sometimes be picked up very cheaply ?

I spotted this non-running example listed by a US eBay seller, last week, as a 5-day auction, with an opening bid price of only $15. I must admit that on this occasion, I deliberately elected not to post about it in the Yema N7's and N8's spotted thread, so as not to draw any unnecessary unwanted attention.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254538826409

Vintage Jaz Paris Quartz Men’s Wristwatch Chronograph. It is not running, so it needs a new battery. Shipping is $4.

There were only two photos, but in the second one, you can just see an inverted S on the right hand side back of the strap. If I'm not mistaken, this watch is still fitted with it's original JAZ PARIS branded leather strap:

Though what condition it's in remains to be seen.  This was ashamedly another case of me really not needing another, but I never could resist a bargain, so I nailed it (3 times, for good measure, to make sure) for the opening bid price of $15. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254538826409

Here's another absolutely ridiculous extreme, which I've posted in full (with all 12 photos), earlier this morning, in the Yema N7s and N8s spotted on eBay thread:

I don't know what to say, really. Words almost fail me. This JAZ Paris N8YZ669 was listed yesterday evening by a US eBay seller. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the dressy little JAZ N8's, particularly the attractive Panda dial version and thought they were under-valued. But $850 ??!! To add insult to injury, it's being offered to buyers outside USA through eBay's dysfunctional GSP programme, which potentially adds another $274 in charges, to the already ridiculous asking price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274620058438

Once again there's that 2020H sales tag  with the same $450 suggested R.R.P.

As you may have seen in my recent update to the Yema N7's N8's spotted thread, at the weekend the deluded US eBay seller rocky_96 revised their listing, reducing their original ludicrous Buy-it-Now price from $850 to 'only' $450 (the same as the R.R.P. on the label) and added the sales code 2020H to their title and description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274620058438

To cut a long story short (and to save repetition), I made them a cheeky lowball offer of $250 and, to my surprise, they accepted. Admittedly, this was yet another case of my not really needing another, but as I've said before, I've always had a soft spot for the Jaz N8YZ669 Panda - and decided to treat myself to a NOS example.

I'm going to try to complete writing up this topic today, by documenting the other known variant of the Jaz Paris N8 - the gold-tone N8YZ63, which I now believe to have been sales code 2040H. It may seem strange, but judging by the number of sightings (all on eBay in the States) over the last 10 years or so, these appear to be less common than their two-tone 'Panda' sibling. My own experience of them goes back nearly as far - to March 2011, though my first was far from satisfactory. 

It was listed in the last week of March, by a US eBay seller. Hardly suprising, I can no longer find all the details, but I believe it was a 5-day auction, with an opening bid price of $25. I do know that it was item # 110664670477 and the listing title was:

Jaz Paris chronongraph quartz goldtone watch and band

It also contained some of the worst photos I've ever seen in an eBay listing. 

Fortunately there were also a couple more besides, that were slightly better.

I do remember that I couldn't bid on it for some reason, so I enlisted the assistance of someone I'd known for many years (a moderator on FerrariChat) - Dave Matthias to 'proxy' bid on it for me. I'm not sure whether Dave won it, or if the seller ended the listing early. The seller had written in his description that it needed a replacement battery - and he seemed determined to fit one, presumably so as not to incur a negative feedback. I have an excellent email filing system - and were I to plough through the numerous eBay messages, there's no doubt I could relate the full story. Somehow I ended up corresponding directly with the US eBay seller. This is one of two messages he sent me on 28th March 2011:

What that message doesn't state, is that between him and the two watch-botchers, in their efforts to remove the dial / movement, they also managed to break the crown stem !   What was quite possibly once a watch in decent used condition had been needlessly butchered by these incompetents. When he offered it to me, I probably should have told the seller 'No thank you' (in less polite terms), but instead I caved in and bought it for $20 (plus $10 postage) and he shipped it to me direct.

When I received it and opened the case-back, it was full of brass filings (from the damaged case threads). I duly cleaned it up, best I could and repaired it, fitting a generic replacement sweep second hand and NOS replacement crown and stem.

It may not look so bad from that angle, but trust me, the underside is not pretty. 

The watch stayed like that, worn only occasionally, right up until last Summer ....

.... When I eventually got around to replacing the generic sweep second hand with one of the correct style - donated by a scrapped Kamatz 517000 (common part).

I bought another Jaz N8YZ63 in October 2012. I think I've already documented it in the Yema N7's and N8's spotted thread. Indeed I had, so here's a copy and paste.

Originally posted by myself on October 8, 2012 at 6:35 PM:

As you've probably gathered from my previous post, I'm not averse to the odd dressy / blingy (nor totally O.T.T.) 7A38 sorry N8.

I came across another 'jazzy' one, earlier this morning, on eBay in the States - a JAZ Paris N8YZ63.

These were actually manufactured by the same company C.G.H. (i.e. Seiko France) as the Yema N8's (hence the N8 model #).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360493870891

Retro1980's? Men's Gold JAZ Watch Quartz Paris Calender Date Timer Bolted Crown

Jaz is a division of Seico (sic) in Paris, France and highly collectable 

Watch is used, has scratches and nicks, still beautiful 

Quartz movement, bolted on crown 

Watch is 1.5 inches across 

No paperwork, you will have to figure out the buttons yourself 

Needs battery

I reckon I could just about figure out the buttons myself (without the paperwork - blind-folded even). So I nailed that one too. 

Here's my follow-up post from the same thread that I wrote a couple of weeks later.

Originally posted by myself on October 27, 2012 at 11:50 AM:

That jazzy little JAZ N8YZ63 finally turned up in this morning's post - I'd almost given it up for lost. No customs charges though.

As the seller had stated in their description, it was indeed as dead as the proverbial dodo - and clearly in need of a new battery.

I got a pleasant surprise when I opened the caseback - one of the cleanest 'needs battery' movements I've seen in a long while.

Though this artificially-lit Q&D photo barely does it justice - it fairly gleams !

Note the dead battery still fitted - a SEIZAIKEN SR936SW. Years old, but absolutely bone dry underneath, with nary a sign of leakage.

SEIZAIKEN is a Seiko Instruments Inc. company: http://www.sii.co.jp/components/battery/productDetailBat1MFzJP.jsp?recordID=50675

Couple of things I didn't state in either of those two posts - checking my records, I paid $39 for it (hence my surprise at not getting caught for Customs charges / VAT), plus a mere $5.99 in postage - which is probably the reason why it took so long. 

What I also didn't say, was that I was slightly disappointed in the overall cosmetic condition, so when I subsequently found myself needing a spare Shimauchi V906 movement, for some other N8 project, I broke it up for parts. The residuals, less movement, sat in a takeaway container, gathering dust for 7 years, until I finally decided to re-build it last Summer. As I wrote in the WRUW thread at the time ....

Yesterday, I relented and re-built it. I'm beginning to wonder why I wasted my time. Pretty it ain't.

Over the last 8 years or so, I've seen a few more Jaz N8YZ63's listed on eBay in the States. None looked any better than the two less than satisfactory examples I already owned, indeed a couple were much worse, so naturally I passed on them.

That was until last weekend, when late on Saturday night, US eBay seller rocky_96 listed a NOS example, with a 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $450. Here follows a partial copy and paste of my post from the Yema N7's and N8's spotted thread:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274633226171

As neither of my two existing examples of the gold-plated N8YZ63 were in ideal condition, naturally I was interested - but not @ $450, thank you very much.

I added it to my eBay watching page, along with their still over-priced N8YZ669. A couple of hours later, I received one of those mildly annoying discount offers from the seller, with a reduced Buy-it-Now price of 'only' $350. Instead of declining, I made them a cheeky, somewhat lower counter offer - and much to my surprise, they accepted !!

The full story (along with the complete set of the seller's 12 photos) is posted in the other thread. I'm delighted to have found a potentially decent example at long last - for what I consider to be a not unreasonable price.  If you study the photos, the constant seconds hand is in the same position, so it's safe to assume the battery is dead. Guess what my first instruction to the seller was, after making the payment ? Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES make any attempt to open the case-back to replace the battery !! 

Note that the seller had included a slightly different sales code 2040H in their title. The sales tag is visible in a few of their photos, but like the one I've included above, typically always the wrong side up. 

My only concern, which may be completely unfounded, is that the crystal gasket looks too thick (and white) in the seller's photos, Normally these watches came fitted with a clear nylon crystal gasket, which is almost invisible (see my earlier photos). Worst case, if it has been messed with, when it arrives I can replace it. From memory the 7A38-6090 uses a 27.5mm Ø clear nylon crystal gasket and I have a couple of gash cases laying around.

Hopefully, Brexit, COVID-19, eBay's GSP programme and UK Customs permitting, I should receive them sometime later this month. 

I guess all that remains is for me to finish off my little Jaz story. They arrived earlier in the week. Their condition is pretty much as expected - NOS, but they've obviously been handled over the years - especially judging by the state of the outer cardboard boxes, which are two very different shades of grey. The barcode labels confirm the sales codes: 2020H for the two-tone 'Panda' and 2040H for the blingy gold-tone.

They came with combined Instruction & Warranty booklets - one had the correct Caliber V906 manual, which I've already described in detail higher up the page ....

.... the other came with an incorrect generic booklet, which covers the various V33xx multi-function models and the V339 Dual-Time. Generally nothing much worth remarking about. The service centres listed towards the back are all in USA - same as those in the V906 manual. Interestingly, the bottom of page 15 ends with: Jaz Paris, New Jersey, U.S.A.. Had it been printed in full, I suspect the address probably would have also included c/o F ROSS LLC and Hackensack (a city in NJ). Here's a copy and paste of something I wrote in another thread years ago:

Originally posted by myself on April 6, 2013 at 2:42 PM:

Dory Isidor Farash told me in a late night phone conversation last year, one of those wholesale brands was Yema. From the late 80's through the 90's, F ROSS LLC was the official US importer and distributor for Yema (and Jaz Paris amongst others).

The card hang tags both carried the same suggested R.R.P. of $450. I'd expected the gold-tone N8YZ63 might have been priced slightly higher. I'm wondering now if there may also have been another N8YZ variant, with sales code of 2030H.

It's nice to finally acquire two examples with pristine case-backs. No great surprise, the protective stickers are the same as you'd find on a NOS Yema N8 - right down to the lines of red and blue dots (on the N8YZ63).

I'm pleased that I instructed the seller not to attempt opening them to replace the batteries. It was abundantly clear from their extreme tightness that the case-backs had never been unscrewed before. Remembering my first N8YZ63, I dread to think what a mess they might have made of them.

The dead battery in the N8YZ63 was the original fitment (as expected) - a venerable Seizaiken SR936SW. Thankfully no sign of any leakage after 30+ years.  Indeed, here's the spotless inside of its case-back, showing the C.G.H. FRANCE stamping.

To finish up - a couple of quick side-by-side shots I rattled off earlier this morning.