Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

I guess it had to come eventually. How about this partially stripped Gangnam Style 7A28-7000 Aliens listed by a Korean seller ? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390531654417

I like it 

I loved this:

Overall condition : Not Bad. 

Made me think whether I ought to try and strip my sample case ...............

Seiko7A38 at December 4, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Maybe this isn't the correct thread to post this in. Perhaps it properly belongs in the 'Craziest' or 'Opportunist' prices thread, but ....

Is it my eyes, or has someone tried (failing badly) to recreate the original silver anodized finish of this 7A38-701A by air-brushing it ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//281033896951

Whether it's just poor photography (which would be unusual for this Italian eBay seller), or an unfortunate trick of the light, but ....

It just looks too dark overall to me.  The watch has clearly also suffered from moisture ingress or battery leakage in the past.

You only need to look at the state of the dial batons. One best avoided - even at a fraction of the would-be seller's asking price. 

  No. I don't think I'm wrong about this one.

Definitely an example of 

In the above photo, you can see evidence of both masking and over-spray on the case-back and edges of the bracelet links.

It seems that everything sells eventually - if not quite for the seller's original inflated asking price. 

I was going through my eBay watching page earlier this evening, clearing out a few ended  items, to make more room (once again)....

and I came across Strega_68's most recent listing for this suspect-looking 7A38-701A - which had ended a couple of weeks ago.

Then I realized that it hadn't been actually been re-listed since. Which is when I noticed the US $800.00 Best offer accepted:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281087766945

So I checked using Goofbid's eBay Seller History tool: http://www.goofbid.com/ebay_seller_history_tool.html

If that is to believed, it eventually sold against an offer of $514. 

Strange thing is, the winning buyer ID abbreviation - according to Goofbid is 4***1. 

In case that sounds vaguely familiar, it's the same eBay ID that finally bought Mad Martina martinachertok's 7A38-7000 for $323.70 !!

Edit: I later gleaned, from feedback left, that the abbreviation 4***1 belongs to an Italian watch collector using eBay ID butterfly642011.

As I learned earlier today, to my cost, Goofbid's eBay Seller History tool is not to be trusted as a means to discover what an eBay item actually sold for under a Best Offer Accepted situation. Whereas in some instances it gives a relatively close indication - for example it shows Martinachertok's stainless 7A38-7000 sold for $323.70, when it actually sold for $330, in other cases it is a country mile out ! 

So as far as: If that is to believed, it eventually sold against an offer of $514 is concerned - it isn't !! What it actually sold for was $320:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281087766945

Hopefully with this last entry I will have corrected all such erroneous data (courtesy of the aptly-named Goofbid) that I've posted in the last month. With apologies for any confusion my editing of other earlier posts may have caused to anyone who'd read them previously.

Another grossly over-polished turd and a classic example of the Filipino watch botcher's art - polished to within an inch of its life. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111103413972

This thing, masquerading as a 7A34-7019, is about as authentic as a Turin shroud beach towel. 

Not just the pushers and crystal, as stated in the description, but also the bezel and case have been buffed - to remove all traces of the worn gold plating. Note the case-back stampings - the case isn't marked 'Stainless Steel', but 'Base Metal'. Before it recieved the Apol of your eyes eyesore make-over treatment, this sorry excuse for a 7A34-7019 would have looked like this once upon a time.

Maybe this isn't exactly the right thread for this post. 

Perhaps I should start another thread just to flag up all the two-tone 7A38-7020's, -702A's and -702H's that I see with this 'botch'. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281163646855

Here is beautiful vintage Seiko Sports 100 Analog Chronograph 7A38-702H in great condition. It very heavy, all stainless steel. This watch is a really cool, all functions work well. During the 80's they were selling for around $600. The crystal is brand new, and it has been recently serviced by certified watchmaker. This watch has one of the best movements Seiko ever made. This watch is build for lifetime! The original band was damaged but is easily replaced with one of your choosing with a measurement of 10mm in between the lugs. It has multiple functions, stopwatch, tachymeter,day and date and is stylish to boot. Happy Bidding!

What the seller fails to mention in his description is that all the presumably worn gold plating has been polished off the bezel, leaving the little gold dummy rivets. Which can look really cool - and indeed this one appears to have been done nicely - but it ain't right ! 

Spotted this interesting looking little 7A38 Diver listed in a job lot on eBay Germany earlier today. Not quite sure what to make of it. 

It could be a Franken combination of a stainless 7A38-6000 fitted with the gold-rimmed bezel and 601L dial from a 7A38-6010 ....

But I rather suspect it's more likely what once was a black-chrome 7A38-6010 that has been completely stripped of its coating.

Which is why I've tacked it onto this thread (as opposed to any other). 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190918419109

The seller has only uploaded the one photo ....

.... and there are no model numbers given in the description. So your guess is nearly as good as mine. 

I almost forgot - it's payment by Cash on Collection (only) and KEIN Versand ins Ausland !!!!!!!!!!!! 

Update: Intrigued as to its true origins, I sent a message via eBay to the German seller, in my best schoolboy German, with assistance from Google translate - enquiring what the model number stamped on the case-back might be:

Die Armbanduhr in der Mitte. Was ist die vollständige Seiko Modell-Nummer auf der Rückseite, bitte? 7A38-6xxx? Danke. MfG

I received a very brief reply earlier this week: 4n310XXXXX

So I asked the question again: Nein - das andere Modell-Nummer in zwei Teile 7A38 - XXXX bitte. MfG.

They've just replied again: hat sie nicht..... 

Sometimes, I wonder why I bother. 

Even though this Filipino eBay seller jfm_watches (who also trades by a couple of other names: Restoredwatches and Nippontime) has openly disclosed in his listing description that this was once a gold-tone 7A38-7270 that has been stripped of its plating - pretty obvious if you look at the underside: apart from the fact he hasn't bothered too much, the case-back is stamped: BASE METAL ....

I thought it was still worth mentioning for another reason:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310778924788

The reason being the bracelet, which again the seller openly describes as:

Bracelet: New aftermarket Seiko SS band, will fit a 7 3/4 inch wrist.

I had to do a double-take. At first glance, I assumed it was the original Seiko p/n B1615G, that had also been stripped of its plating !

The after-market stainless bracelet he's fitted is very similar in appearance to the original Seiko design / construction - apart from not being wide enough at the shoulder, where it should taper outwards to match the width of the watch case. One to watch out for in future.

'One to watch out for in future'. 

Didn't take too long for this stripped gold-tone 7A38-7270 to reappear, did it ?  Listed overnight on eBay in the States:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151200078728

Hello here is a Nice Seiko 7A38-7270 Men's Stainless Steel Chronograph Watch. This is Seiko's first chronograph analog quartz watch. It has a 15 jewel quartz movement. This watch had a full rebuild. The hands dial and crystal are new. The case has had the sides polished and the top done in brushed stainless. All the functions work and it keeps accurate time. The hands reset to zero. A new battery has just been installed. The watch was gold tone originally. Watch diameter is 37mm. The band is new will fit up to a 7.75 inch wrist with adjustment of the pin on the clasp. The watch looks great. The crystal is scratch free. The dial and hands are perfect. This is a nice classic collectible Seiko.

No it's not - it's a horrible botched up mess - an over-polished turd - borderline Franken. 

Incidentally, when it first allegedly sold at the beginning of November it made $123.50: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310778924788

Obviously the winning bidder realized his mistake. Second time around it made $79: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350933994064

Just spotted this completely stripped 'stainless' 7A38-704B listed on eBay.com by Filipino arch-watch-botchers apol_of_your_eyes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370982416794

I guess that makes it authentically buffed then ! 

Be very careful of this one listed on eBay Italy earlier this evening - it's not quite what it seems.

To the uninitiated, it may, at first glance, look like a stainless 7A38-7060 (on an incorrect bracelet), but it's not - look closer ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221454992344

Dalla mia collezione privata vendo: 

Cronografo Seiko 7A38, 15 rubini, cassa e bracciale in acciaio (non dell'epoca), con quadrante intatto silver.

Il diametro è di 39mm, esclusa corona e pulsanti. Giorno della settimana in italiano e inglese. 

Funziona perfettamente. Le foto sono dell'orologio in vendita e sono parte integrante dell'inserzione.

The first clue that something's not quite right is in the apparent colour of the edges of the dial batons and centres of the main hands.

Notice the (wrong) direction of the brushing on the bottom right hand lug in the above photo.

The damning evidence is in the seller's last photo, showing the case-back stampings: 7A38-706B BASE METAL ST. STEEL BACK.

It was once a gold-tone 7A38-706B, like this:

Except it's been almost completely stripped of its gold plating. Look closely and you can still see a couple of tiny traces they missed.

I should clarify / qualify my previous post by stating that it is not the current Italian eBay seller Calleval (Valentino) who is responsible for stripping the gold plating off this watch. He very likely bought it in good faith, two years ago in May 2012. Here's a previous listing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180880961779

Not wishing to go into 'overkill mode' here - I've already written up about this watch in considerably more detail, as part of my ongoing investigations into the Italian market gold-tone 7A38-706B, in another lengthy thread in the 7Axx General Discussion area, entitled:

Riddle me this: When is a RARE Franken 7Axx not a Franken ?

However, I will repeat: this same watch was also listed on eBay Italy Classifieds in May 2012, with some larger photos, including this:

Which clearly shows traces of the original Seiko SGP gold plating on and around the pusher housing. 

it is back again

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221454992344

I did actually put a bid on it, on both of his watches,  but to my defence I wanted a donor watch.....

And then the picture was vagually familiar, so flipped through the forum posts, just in case it was on the WRUW thread...

Dirk

It hadn't 'gone away', Dirk.  That's the same listing (by italian eBay seller Calleval) I posted two days ago. 

This is another of those unfortunate eBay 7Axx listings where I wasn't quite sure where to post it. 

It could equally fit - and probably belongs in James' The lower end & bottom of the 7Axx barrel thread ....

or as you'll see why presently in the Latest mis-matched hotch-potch 7Axx spotted on eBay thread.

It was listed yesterday by an Indonesian eBay seller - as a 7A28-7040:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171453261326

For auction seiko 7A28-7040,black pvd but already fadded,working condition,chronograph back to default.

Brand : seiko

Movement : quartz 7A28

crystal : original with some scratch

Dial : original with aging

Hands : original

Pusher : original

Case : black pvd diameter : 40 mm

Band : stainless steel, original seiko,fit to 7,5 inch wrist

Sold as is, refer to the pictures for detail ....

Indeed, you don't need to study the seller's poor quality photos too closely to figure out that it's (or once was) actually a 7A38-7080:

.... which has been only partially stripped of its black chrome coating and polished to within an inch of its life. 

Whether it's also been fitted with an incorrect case-back (off a 7A28-7040) - your guess is as good as mine. 

Seiko7A38 at October 1, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Spotted this interesting looking little 7A38 Diver listed in a job lot on eBay Germany earlier today. Not quite sure what to make of it. 

It could be a Franken combination of a stainless 7A38-6000 fitted with the gold-rimmed bezel and 601L dial from a 7A38-6010 ....

But I rather suspect it's more likely what once was a black-chrome 7A38-6010 that has been completely stripped of its coating.

Which is why I've tacked it onto this thread (as opposed to any other). 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190918419109

The seller has only uploaded the one photo ....

.... and there are no model numbers given in the description. So your guess is nearly as good as mine. 

I almost forgot - it's payment by Cash on Collection (only) and KEIN Versand ins Ausland !!!!!!!!!!!! 

WelI guess we know what it is for sure now, because this was listed on eBay Germany earlier this evening:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380997878011

Sammlungsauflösung

Verkaufe einen SEIKO 7A38 - 6010 Chronographen. Zustand (siehe Bilder).

Die Uhr ist defekt, vermutlich ist mal die Batterie ausgelaufen. Wasserdichtheit nicht geprüft. Originalband. Lieferumfang ist nur die Uhr.

Verkauf unter Ausschluss der Sachmängelhaftung, keine Rücknahme. Abholung möglich.

As I'd suspected, when I saw it in that job lot in October, it's a 7A38-6010 that's been stripped of its black chrome coating and polished.

Not so sure about the seller's claim for the bracelet's originality though - it's a different finish, but perhaps that's been bead blasted. 

To quote myself from higher up the page:

Maybe this isn't exactly the right thread for this post. 

Perhaps I should start another thread just to flag up all the two-tone 7A38-7020's, -702A's and -702H's that I see with this 'botch'. 

I still haven't. 

In fact, there have been so many two-tone 7A38-702x's listed on eBay over the last year or so, with stripped bezels, it got to the point where I assumed most readers would recognise such a modified watch if they saw one, so I simply haven't bothered mentioning them.

Here's a classic example on eBay Germany at the moment, which was first listed at the end of November. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151493301227

Quite nicely done too - maybe the top surface face of the bezel could have done with another couple of thou' skimming off to remove all traces of the old gold plating (between 2 and 4 o'clock). Regardless - it's stupidly over-priced, so it shouldn't tempt anybody.

But there was something else in a similar vein, slightly more sensibly priced (particularly for this Italian seller) that was listed on eBay this afternoon, which may catch out an unwary buyer. It's not a two-tone 7A38-702x for a change, but a stripped two-tone 7A38-7260.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271712543710

The flat top surface of the gold-plated bezel on the 7A38-724x / -725x / -726x's is prone to getting scratched / normal rubbing wear.

But his is the first time I've actually seen anyone completely strip the plating off one of these bezels, in an attempt to disguise it.

Apart from the gold plated pushers and crown, the biggest clue that something isn't quite right is stamped on the case-back ....

BASE METAL BEZEL.

For those not familiar with the model (there are plenty of photos in the WRUW thread), here's a couple of my two-tone 7A38-7260's.

On the correct original Seiko grey leather strap:

and on the light grey lizard strap which I prefer:

Crikey. It's been over a year since I've updated this thread. I guess there may have been a few 'horrors' offered by the usual Filipino watch botchers that I've omitted to mention in the interim. But I couldn't let this over-polished turd, purporting to be a 7A38-704A, listed yesterday evening by the arch Brazilian watch botchers, pass without comment. The grey PVD over black chrome coating has been almost completely stripped and the whole watch polished in the best Filipino watch botching manner. I say 'almost' because evidence of the watch's original finish remains on the crown and in the joints between the bracelet links. Truly an appalling mess. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262222818682

There can really only be one question: Why ???????? 

If anyone reading this post is in any doubt as to how this watch might once have looked (in its correct original grey PVD finish) ....

Check out: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181975003135 - It may be ludicrously over-priced, but it serves as a decent example.