Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

To date, most bad examples of re-finishing cited in this thread have concerned stripping of coatings and / or (gold) re-plating.

There are a number of Seiko 7Axx's - both 7A28's and 7A38's which came in a black chrome plated finish, which is very vulnerable to rubbing wear. Some of these watches with the BCRP finish came in dark Brown (like the 7A38-6020 SAA041J) and dark Grey (like the 7A38-704x range). Then you've got the Black watches like the 7A38-6010 / - 6030; 7A38-7080; 7A38-7140 / -714A and 7A38-7290. All of these coated watches originally came in a matt finish, but soon take a polish with regular wear. The 7A38-7290 is particularly vulnerable to rubbing wear on the corners and bluff ends of the watch case.

It's relatively easy to 'touch up' these watches using an aerosol spray can or airbrush. I think I've just spotted on such re-spray job.

This 7A38-7290, then with evidence of rubbing wear was first listed on eBay by a Hungarian seller in the first week of February.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291678137518

It went unsold and was re-listed almost straight away, with two slightly different photos (one possibly photo-shopped):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291685667759

But then that re-listing was ended early due to an alleged error in that listing.

In the most recent (and current) re-listing, yesterday lunchtime the seller uploaded a new set of photos.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291687532938

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=291687532938

'Seems' being the operative word.

Seems to me that there's been (more than) a bit of touching up going on.

Study the 'before and after' photos carefully and you'll see what I mean - not just the ends of watch case, but most of the bracelet. 

Caveat Emptor - as always, Gentlemen. 

That black watch is back on sale. I can confirm it has been painted. Whole bracelet is painted badly, watch case is touched up on places where it is worn out. Has new battery for sure as I changed it. Did not help on the movement acting up, but after been send back it now works again.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-CHRONOGRAPH-7A38-7290-VINTAGE-RARE-BLACK-PILOT-SPEEDMASTER-/291718200733

nova at July 24, 2012 at 12:47 PM

JAPAN TITANIUM VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38 CHRONOGRAPH SPORTS 100M QUARTZ MEN WATCH

with nice coloured hands

http://www.ebay.de/itm/JAPAN-TITANIUM-VINTAGE-SEIKO-7A38-CHRONOGRAPH-SPORTS-100M-QUARTZ-MEN-WATCH-/271023268038

Remember this technicolour aberration posted by Andre ('Nova') on the first page of this thread, back in July 2012 ? 

Seiko7A38 at July 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM

That's pretty horrible, Andre !! 

Apart from the painted hands (wrong sweep hand) and batons someone's managed to fit a different minute? ring in there, too.

Here's how a Ti 7A38-7130 should look:

Seiko7A38 at July 24, 2012 at 1:28 PM

And the first bidder is a Zero-Feedback Newbie !! 

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=271023268038

Although I didn't follow up at the time, the record for the ended listing still exists in eBay history. It sold for $124.50 after 15 bids.

To some schmuck unwitting buyer. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271023268038

Well it's back !!  

Listed overnight on eBay in the States, by the winning bidder of the July 2012 auction - lightwaves808 (ID and 239 feedback match).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172179472708

I've only bothered uploading 5 of the seller's 12 photos, but these two of the movement paint an even worse blacker picture ....

Gotta love the matching technicolour description. 

Only one question:

How many reasons do you need to avoid ? (Unless you happen to be sat on a spare replacement dial / movement and dial ring).

Incidentally, the reason for: The larger seconds sweep hand (lime green w/orange dot) does NOT function ....

is plainly visible in the two photos of the movement - just in case you haven't read this thread (as the seller clearly hasn't). 

Thankfully nobody got too carried away with the bidding on this titanium 7A38-7130 technicolor abberation, this time around.

The auction ended in the early hours of this morning; sold for $67 after 7 bids - rather less than the previous $124.50 in 2012.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172179472708

It's been a (long) while since I last updated this thread. Readers may recall the first sentence of my first post on the first page.

You've got to hand it to some of the Filipino watch-botchers - a few of them have got case and bracelet re-finishing off to a fine art.

Indeed, to re-iterate, at the top of this page, I'd also written:

To date, most bad examples of re-finishing cited in this thread have concerned stripping of coatings and / or (gold) re-plating.

While running a worldwide search on Seiko 7A38 this morning, I spotted another re-finished example worthy of a mention.

Not surprisingly, it's being offered by one of the Filipino watch-botchers - time_essence and it's something of a 'classic'. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302208151704

The watch's bezel, pushers and (extremely well-worn) crown have clearly all been re-plated. The watch case has obviously been polished, because the swage lines on the sides aren't as sharp as they should be. As the seller states in his description, the watch is still fitted with the 'original' correct Seiko p/n Z1162C bracelet (albeit a rather short one) - but what he conveniently omits to mention is that it's been completely stripped of its gold plating. Here's how a 7A38-7069 should look (and this one did once).

It really begs the question why these people go to all the effort (and still manage to get it wrong), for what is basically a $50 watch.

If you're seeking that 'military' look, certain Seiko 7Axx models, in well worn condition, can sometimes benefit from being satin finish bead-blasted. I've seen a couple of 7A38-7060's, a 7A38-7070 and a stainless 7A38-7270 customised that way in the past. Indeed, Bryan Hibbins used to specailize in it. His company was called SatinTime. Here's a couple of photos of that 7A38-7270 he did.

But it doesn't work on all 7Axx models. This 7A38-7260 was listed earlier this morning by an Italian eBay seller. The watch case was once an all-over gold tone finish - presumably suffering from badly worn plating. The bead-blasting has been reasonably well done, but to my eyes, it's just all wrong - especially with that blingy white dial. The rich tan coloured strap would have gone nicely with the original gold tone case. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152470638299

Dalla mia collezione privata vendo bellissimo Seiko 7A38 - 7260, versione rara, cassa satinata, ottime condizioni, da collezione, perfettamente funzionante. 

Spedisco in tutto il mondo con posta raccomandata 1 con tracking number e garantisco un ottimo imballo per prevenire eventuali danneggiamenti dovuti al trasporto.

Sotto potete vedere le foto dell'orologio. 

From my private collection, I sell a Seiko 7A38 - 7260, perfectly working. 

I ship all over the world by registered mail with tracking number and I guarantee a very good packaging in order to prevent damages during shipping. You can see the photos of the watch below.

(Dozens more photos are embedded in the description - that is if you needed any more convincing this is a 'wrong un').

This 7A38-7080, which has been almost completely stripped of its black chrome coating was listed this morning by Italian eBay seller pichimmi.You can still see traces of the black coating in the bezel and crown nurling and around the pusher housings. It's fitted with a non-original Seiko 20mm bracelet (possibly a p/n Z1118S, but which I can't accurarately identify from the seller's photos) that appears to have been lightly bead-blasted to match the case. With an opening bid price of 120 Euros, it's certain to appeal to someone.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302272908535

SEIKO CRONO QUARTZ VINTAGE, ACCIAIO.

FUNZIONANTE, BRACCIALE ORIGINALE.

GHIERA 40MM. OTTIME CONDIZIONI.

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a very bad example of ill-thought out re-finishing, or just plain downright butchery. 

I spotted this aberration abortion listed on Yahoo Japan auctions, earlier today, with an opening bid price of 15,000 Yen.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b258511646

Adult Speedmaster 7A28 7A38-7270 Chrono Gold · Working item

It was once a gold-tone 7A38-7270. Obviously the 'Milanese' style bracelet isn't original, but look at the watch case ! 

The hooded lug boxes have been partially opened up (possibly to accomodate the bracelet fixing tube). The watch case has been stripped of it's gold plating (strangely leaving it on the pusher cups) but worst of all, the top surface of the case appears to have been skimmed in a lathe ! The Japanese seller makes no mention of any of the foregoing in their description, but as they clearly deal in watches, I suspect they may well have a good idea it's a wrong un. 

I've already become accustomed to (and mildly amused by) the 'now you see it, now you don't' tactics of the devious Mexican eBay seller vintagemexicollectables. Last week, this listing for a what purported to be 7A38-7070 briefly appeared and just as quickly disappeared in the early hours of the morning

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142442792520

Presumably withdrawn because of a pretty obvious error in the listing - it's actually a 7A38-7080 which has been (badly) stripped of its black chrome coating and half-heartedly polished. I suspected they might re-list it, hopefully with the title corrected at some point, but No. Here it is, re-listed in the early hours of this morning - just the same as before. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142447538507

Please, make your best bid!!!

Description:

Working Excellent. Some little marks over the watch. Running excellent. The strap is not the original. The bezel is stucked but in great conditions. Please Check The Photos. In a used watch, the water resistance is not guaranteed.

Please, check the photos before the purchase, because there is no returns. Maybe the description lack all the information, but if in the photos is showed some characteristics that affect the function or the aesthetic of the product, no returns are accepted. Ask for all, please.

Shipment 2 days after the payment, please, ask for the tracking number. The shipment could be delayed 1 to 2 months, please, take in account. If a fastest shipment is desirable, the shipment cost would increase ( just through DHL).

I strongly recommend that you take their advice and check the photos.  Apart from the grotty lume on the hands and dial batons, it's not difficult to spot what's left of the original black chrome coating - in the bezel and crown knurling, around the pusher cups and in the lug boxes. Oh and of course there's those giveaway case-back stampings. Probably best avoided at all costs. In the words of the Bard:

That Mexican eBay listing for the stripped 7A38-7080 ended in the early hours of this morning, selling for $168.50 after 36 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142447538507

I notice that horribly butchered gold-tone 7A38-7270 is back again, re-listed on Yahoo Japan auctions earlier this week. 

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/s539424505

Seiko Speedmaster 7A38-7270 chronograph old

The seller appears to have fitted a different bracelet. Makes you wonder why they bothered. 

Stripping a well worn 7A38-7080 of its remaining black chrome coating seems to becoming an ever more popular mod.  This one's been done rather better than usual, without leaving the usual tell-tale evidence of the black coating, so is more likely to catch someone out. The Yobokies repro'  bezel insert helps add to the illusion. It was listed earlier today by a UK seller, with an opening bid price of 99p and a (probably much higher) reserve price set. I've never really seen the point of that tactic myself.  The cocky seller's eBay ID is top_artisan. I wouldn't go that far, personally.  Note in the description, he's knowingly written: I would say the watch had been polished in the past. Yeah, right - and then some. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222727743715

Seiko 7A38-7080 in excellent condition. April 1984? 15 jewels Quartz movement. All functions works fine. bezel insert is from Yobokies. Bezel has a nice clicking action. I would say the watch had been polished in the past. New seals all round with a fresh battery.S/S bracelet is too big for my 7inch wrist, more then likely will need re sizing.(if required I can take some links off to make it smaller).

Any questions you have I will be more then happy to answer. Will post special delivery for £7.50 if less I will refund the difference. Thank you for looking.

This allegedly 'stainless' 7A38-727A listed last night by an Indian eBay seller is also likely to catch someone out, but for different reasons - mostly because it's relatively cheap. But, as a modded botched watch, it's not unattractive either. This watch was once an all-over gold-tone 7A38-727A, which has been almost completely stripped of its worn plating. The only place you can really see it is inside the rim of the watch case on the movement shot. It's also been fitted with non-original stick hands and that tempting red-sweep second hand. But notice how perilously close that and the minute hand come to the Tachymeter ring.  I haven't bothered uploading all the seller's photos, because some are very similar (one was a duplicate).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272947008360

What may also serve to add to any newbie's confusion is that such a thing as a stainless 7A38-727A does exist. It's quite a different watch. There's also a stainless 7A38-727B, which has a similar dial (but with silver batons and logo, rather than gold). Anyway, here's what this watch would have looked like originally:

samulis at March 24, 2016 at 5:56 PM

That black watch is back on sale. I can confirm it has been painted. Whole bracelet is painted badly, watch case is touched up on places where it is worn out. Has new battery for sure as I changed it. Did not help on the movement acting up, but after been send back it now works again.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-CHRONOGRAPH-7A38-7290-VINTAGE-RARE-BLACK-PILOT-SPEEDMASTER-/291718200733

Although I believe the current UK seller is a member of this forum, I feel it's only fair to point out that the same re-painted 7A38-7290 was back on eBay earlier today.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132511534407

A rare model Seiko 7A38-7090. Came from original owner. With original box. Am selling a few pieces from my collection.

Crystal has some surface marks, case in very nice condition no metal showing through. Original black bracelet, possibly re-coloured at some point. Runs fine everything works resets back to 12 perfectly, new battery.

According to a previous buyer, there's definitely no 'possibly' about it. 

This partially stripped black chrome 7A28-7110 appeared on eBay Germany at the weekend. Someone appears to have put a considerable effort into creating this truly horrible piebald abberation. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153039189799

I've only bothered to upload 2 of the seller's 10 photos. The eBay seller's original description made no mention of the coating being partially stripped, but someone must have contacted him, because he later added this:

Am 27.05.18 hat der Verkäufer die folgenden Angaben hinzugefügt:

Nach einem Uhrenprofi hier bei ebay, möchte ich darauf hinweisen das die Uhr gemoddet ist.

Dh.: Die PVD Beschichtung ist nicht 100% original.

Bitte Infos im Web besorgen. mfg.

Which translates as:

On 05/27/18 the seller added the following information:

After a watch professional here on ebay, I would like to point out that the clock is modded.

That means: The PVD coating is not 100% original.

Please get info on the web. Kind regards.

Indeed, if you're in any doubt as to how an original unmolested 7A28-7110 should look, there are quite a few decent examples in this dedicated thread.

Hard to believe that partially stripped mess made 210 Euros !  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153039189799

This allegedly 'very rare' gold-tone 7A38-7190, which has almost been completely stripped of all its gold plating and over-polished, in the best Filipino watch-botcher tradition, was listed earlier this afternoon by Italian eBay seller checkpointflorence, with an absolutely ludicrous Buy-it-Now price of 950 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264012851306

Dalla mia collezione vendo questo raro Cronografo SEIKO 7A38-7190 prodotto nel Gennaio 1987

✔️La cassa in acciaio è in perfette condizioni e misura circa 37mm senza considerare la corona e i pulsanti del crono.

✔️Bellissimo quadrante originale, lancette ed indici originali in eccellenti condizioni.

✔️I giorni della settimana sono in Inglese-Francese.

✔️Cristallo perfetto, senza graffi.

✔️Bracciale originale B1405.E per dimensioni del polso max 22cm.

✔️Il movimento funziona perfettamente e tutte le funzioni cronografiche sono OK, l'azionamento dei pulsanti cronografici è netto e senza esitazioni.

✔️Batteria nuova.

È davvero un cronografo SEIKO da collezionare, in ottime condizioni originali: molto bello e attraente sul polso con un look moderno ancora oggi.

Si prega di fare riferimento alle foto, sono parte integrante della descrizione.

CONDIZIONI

QUESTA E’ UNA VENDITA PRIVATA E VALE LA REGOLA VISTO E PIACIUTO, QUINDI NON ACCETTO RESTITUZIONE PER RIPENSAMENTO.

La restituzione è accetta solo per oggetto non conforme alla descrizione - spese di rientro a carico del venditore e restituzione dell' importo pagato per l'oggetto comprese le eventuali spese di spedizione originali, dopo il rientro dell'articolo e sua verifica.

FEEDBACK

Se ci sono problemi, prima di lasciare un feedback contattami, sono disponibili a risolvere qualsiasi disguido. Il feedback è uno strumento per capire l’affidabilità e serietà di un venditore e non per risolvere dispute o chiedere rimborsi. Offro massima disponibilità e sono convinto che la comunicazione sia il miglior modo per risolvere qualsiasi dubbio o eventuale malintesi.

############

From my collection I sell this rare SEIKO 7A38-7190 Chronograph produced in Gennaio 1987.

✔️The steel case is in perfect conditions and measures about 37mm without considering the crown and the chrono buttons.

✔️Perfect crystal, without scratches.

✔️Beautiful original dial, original hands and markers in excellent conditions.

✔️The days of the week are in English-French

✔️Original bracelet B1405.E for wrist size max 22cm.

✔️The movement works perfectly and all the chronographic functions are OK, the chronograph buttons work crispy.

✔️New battery.

It really is a Seiko chronograph to collect, in excellent original condition very nice and eye-catching on the wrist with a modern look still today.

Please refer to the photos, they are an integral part of the description.

TERMS

THIS‘ A SALE PRIVATE, AND THAT IS THE RULE SEEN AND LIKED, I DO NOT ACCEPT RETURN FOR AFTERTHOUGHT

The refund is accepted only for object not compliant to the descriction – return expense borne by to the seller and the refund of the amount you paid for the object including any costs of original shipping after the return of article and its verification.


FEEDBACK

If there are problems, please contact me before you give feedback, I am available to solve any mistake. The feedback and’ a tool for understanding the reliability’ of a seller and not to resolve disputes or ask for refunds. I offer maximum availability’ and I am convinced that the communication is the best way to solve any doubt or any misunderstandings.

I wouldn't give 95 Euros for it. Then again, I don't need to. Here's how it should look.

My own cheap 'beater' for which I paid the princely sum of £29.50 for in September 2014. O.K., so admittedly it needed a little work, but it gives you a better idea of their true worth - in unmolested condition.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261595582188