Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

And yet another thread - a category for watches that aren't exactly blatant Frankens .... just not quite as they should be.

And here's a perfect example to start the new page.

This stainless 7A38-7270 was listed yesterday morning by an Italian eBay seller. Apart from needing a good clean, it's been fitted with a non-original replacement Tachymeter ring. Google doesn't translate the original Italian description particularly well, but I suspect this phrase may possibly be alluding to the fact: CON VETRINO GRAFFIATO IN Più PUNTI.

A bonus point to anybody who can correctly identify the Tachymeter ring's donor watch. 'Cos I don't recognize it. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263206439588

INIZIAMO QUESTA NUOVA AVVENTURA CON LA VENDITA DI OROLOGI ESCLUSIVAMENTE ORIGINALI E DI FATTURA SVIZZERA !

DI SEGUITO POCHE MA FONDAMENTALI REGOLE PER POTER ESEGUIRE ACQUISTI IN Tranquillità!

1)INFORMIAMO CHE SONO SEMPRE ACCETTATI BONIFICI E PAGAMENTI ELETTRONICI E PAYPAL

2)MILOWATCH2017 OFFRE SPEDIZIONE COMBINATA PER QUALSIASI NUMERO DI OGGETTI ACQUISTATI SEMPRE E SOLO AL COSTO DI UNA SPEDIZIONE! CONSIGLIAMO AVVERTIRE SE INTENZIONATI A PIù ACQUISTI, SAREMO BEN LIETI DI ATTENDERE E SUCCESSIVAMENTE SPEDIRE!

3) GLI OROLOGI SARANNO SPEDITI SEMPRE FUNZIONANTI MA IN TUTTI I CASI ACCETTEREMO RESTITUZIONI A PRIORI ANCHE PER OGGETTI CHE DAL VIVO NON SODDISFANO LE ASPETTATIVE ! SI AVVISA SI RISPEDISCE AL RICEVIMENTO RIMBORSEREMO LA SPESA INIZIALE CHE COMPRENDE ANCHE LA SPEDIZIONE DI ANDATA. DETTO CIò CHI GIà CI CONOSCE SA BENE IL NOSTRO AGIRE PRIMA DURANTE E DOPO L'ACQUISTO ! PER I NUOVI ACQUIRENTI ASSICURIAMO Serietà Professionalità E COMPETENZA!

BUON DIVERTIMENTO!!!!

§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§

SPORTIVO OROLOGIO SEIKO MODELLO CHRONOGRAPH REF 7A38-7270 TOTALMENTE IN ACCIAIO CON I TIPICI 4 PULSANTI LATERALI CHE AZIONANO LA CRONOGRAFIA TUTTA FUNZIONANTE COMPRESO IL DATARIO AD ORE 15. L'OROLOGIO SI PRESENTA IN DISCRETE CONDIZIONI CON VETRINO GRAFFIATO IN Più PUNTI . CASSA AL NETTO 37MM VENDUTO COSì COME è NELLE CONDIZIONI IN CUI SI TROVA , DUNQUE FARE ATTENZIONE ALLE NUMEROSE FOTO PROPOSTE

SPEDITO SOLO CON IMBALLO DI PROTEZIONE.

For comparison, here's what the correct original Tachymeter ring in a 7A38-7270 should look like:

"VETRINO GRAFFIATO IN Più PUNTI" mean several scratches on the glass

I must admit I've been a bit lax in (not) flagging up some of the misrepresented dross that's appeared on eBay in the last 12 months. There's just so much of it lately. Besides, my doing so rarely seems to prevent some mug punter from buying it - often for 'silly' prices. But I couldn't let this latest abberation slip under the radar without passing comment - simply because of the sheer amount of misguided effort that has been expended on this watch in an attempt to make a sale. 

It was listed yesterday evening by a Belgian eBay seller kakine16, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 299 Euros. The seller has written the dial part number 7A28-712L in both the title and description, possibly as a ruse to throw the unwary potential bidder a curved ball. As can be seen from the case-back stamping, it was once a JDM 7A28-7100.

The most obvious discrepancy is the watch case, now completely devoid of its 'Pepsi' Tachymeter bezel. I'm not sure what the bezel actually is - though it may be the original that has been turned down on a lathe and given a not unattractive radially brushed finish. I'd suspect the perpetrator also has access to a lapping machine, because the angled ends of the watch case have been similarly refinished. Yet perversely, for reasons best known to themselves, the top surface of the watch case appears to have been polished to a mirror finish. 

The dial batons appear to have been re-lumed. The non-original replacement red sweep second hand has possibly been re-painted in a failed effort to colour match - and given a little arrow-head shaped blob of lume to make it look like the Seiko part. The 1/10s sub-dial hand should also be red (not black). 

I'm honestly not sure if the bracelet is original (I don't know 7A28's well enough) - the link pattern looks correct, but the inner links shouldn't be polished. If it is, the clasp fitted to it certainly isn't original, because being a JDM model. it should have a SPEEDMASTER logo'd clasp.

I guess the pièce de résistance has to be the gold anodized anti-magnetic movement backplate, complete with evidence of a fairly severe battery leak. 

Needless to say, the French description gives no hint of any of the above. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162784133391

90) Seiko chronograph quartz vintage, calibre Seiko 7A28-712L T 15 rubis 1983, boite et mouvement signé Seiko, cadran noir, chrono 60s, 30min, 0,1 secondes, carrure et fond acier vissé, diamètre 41 mm hors couronne, bracelet acier Seiko, Made in Japan, fonctionne parfaitement dans toutes ses fonctions

Consultez mes autres objets !

Politique de remboursement :

En cas de litige avec l'acheteur le prix réel de la marchandise est remboursable.

Le coût d'expédition est non remboursable.

Frais d’envoi et d’emballage.

Je ne compte qu’un seul envoi même pour plusieurs montres.

Pour la Belgique : 6€ envoi recommandé avec numéro de suivi par la poste.

Pour l’union européenne : 13€ envoi recommandé avec numéro de suivi par la poste.

Pour le reste du monde: 13€ envoi recommandé avec numéro de suivi par la poste.

Toutes mes montres sont nettoyées, je ne vends pas de montres qui ne fonctionnent pas.

Cela reste des montres vintages, s'il y a un problème contactez moi.

For those readers who don't know what a 7A28-7100 should look like, here's a couple of photos of decent unmolested examples, posted elsewhere on the forum.

Incidentally it's also listed on the Belgian classified site www.2ememain.be.

http://www.2ememain.be/386363694.html

90) Seiko chronograph quartz vintage, calibre Seiko 7A28-712

There are a couple of 7A28-710A's on eBay at the moment, which how shall we put it, aren't exactly how they left the Seiko production line. In fact, the first is an absolute horror - a rather subtle Franken whose true condition is being seriously mis-represented by the seller, who should know better.

This first one was listed by a UK eBay seller, bigmacnofat (a.k.a. Archer McLean) a couple of days ago. It's already been bid to £311.  The first obvious thing wrong with this watch is that it's fitted with an incorrect bracelet: a Seiko p/n B1075S normally found on the 7A28-7040 / -7049. Then there's the odd-sized (smaller diameter) pusher @ 2 o'clock. But hang on a minute !!  This model shouldn't have the other two larger diameter pushers. The bezel and case-back may be from a 7A28-710A, but the centre section of the watch case is from a 7A28-703X. The seller may mention the degraded lume (if not the ink bleeding around the plots), but perhaps his eyesight isn't so good. Check out the diabolical misalignment of the hour and minute hands - and that's even when the latter has been bent in an attempt to compensate for it !!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142628376431

Up for sale is a strikingly good looking fully working Seiko 7A28 710A Chronograph produced in May 1983, used but in good useable condition.

Its 15 Jewel quartz movement keeps excellent time, and it has really nice clicky / tactile buttons so you know when you’ve pressed the start/stop button.

It is a used watch and is not ‘mint mint’ and it has various minor marks on the case, black outer ring and strap, but for being 35 years old its in good condition as shown in the photos. Most cosmetic parts are still generally available so restoration is always going to be possible should it need it.

The hardlex glass has no visible marks or scratches and is in excellent condition. I've tried to capture a photo of the light reflecting off the glass and outer ring.

The chapter ring does have various tiny marks on its black paintwork and some dings, visible near the 3 o’clock position, but to the naked eye the watch is still very nice, and most marks are only going to be noticeable if you hold it up to a bright light and use a magnifying glass.

The Yellow/Black dial “look” is near identical to the legendary Seiko 7A38 “Vulcan Pilot” watch, although despite numerous online debates, I personally do not believe Seiko ever made a small batch just for the RAF and its more to do with internet folklore / myth !

The yellow dial itself has luminous hour markers around the perimeter although these look a bit degraded with age and only glow for a few seconds after being exposed to light. I somehow doubt they’d show up in a cockpit ;-)

The case back is generally nice condition with minor scratches and marks commensurate with being a used watch, but there is a visible scratch, see photos.

I’ve added a scan of the Seiko Catalogue from 1982, and as far as I know this model was produced through to late 80’s.

It has a new battery fitted today and there are no signs of any previous battery problems.

The strap currently fits up to a 7.75 inch wrist and is loose on 7.5 inch.

It weighs approx 95g, measures 40mm across body, and 30mm across face.

It will be supplied with its original box, although the box is showing its age.

Given the time of year I will post this same day as payment received, using next-day signed-for service.

All in all a nice usable 7A28.

PayPal payment only please.

The watch will be sent in a well protected and discretely marked package using a signed-for / tracked courier service.

The other one is rather more subtle. It was listed a couple of days ago by an Italian eBay seller, described as 'New with Tags', with an opening bid price of 300 Euros. Generally it's in far better (indeed almost new original) condition compared to the previous hotch-potch mess. But it ain't quite right either. Check out the hands fitted to the 30 minute and 1/10s sub-dials. They're slim, red and black with tails. Off a 7A28-6040 if I'm not mistaken. I posted the second photo to show the correct style pushers / case for a 7A28-710A (small - with cups).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263390752959

Orologio nuovo. Con cartellino del prezzo orig. Del suo tempo. Fondello con ancora la protezione viola antigraffio.

I don't normally take that much interest in 7A28's, but this 7A38-703A (or what purports to be one) came up as an eBay suggestion (when I was looking at something else) this morning and I really had to do a double take, because although it is (in reality) something of a mis-matched hotch-potch (possibly a borderline Franken), it's a very attractive looking watch ! 

It was listed a couple of days ago by a US eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $9.99. Bidding has currently only reached $25, but the listing has already received over 570 views, so there's considerable interest. It's being offered through eBay's useless GSP program incidentally. I tried to place a bid to find myself blocked as usual. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183161222990

Watch is very good cosmetic as well as mechanical condition.

Movement is in working order. Case size 44 x 40 mm.

Comes as on photos with stainless steel bracelet.

Bracelet will fit to 7" wrist.

See all photos - what you see is what you get.

100% Authenticity Guarantee!

All photos in the listing are of the actual item for sale (we do not use stock photos).

Use zoom option for close-ups, photos represent true condition of the item.

100% Authentic ? Not so sure about that. But what are you getting, exactly ? 

I don't consider myself enough of an authority on 7A28's, so can't speak with 100% certainty, but here's what I reckon. This watch could conceivably be a mish-mash of up to 3 (or 4) different 7A28-703x models: -703A / -703B / -7030 and -7039. Then again, it might just be a 7A28-703A that's been fitted with the wrong bezel (off a 7A28-703B / -7039). Here's a couple of very old photos of an almost pristine original example that was listed on eBay in the States, back in January 2012:

Anybody else like to proffer an opinion ? 

A slightly belated update to that one. As nobody else seemed willing to stick their neck out and I wasn't sure of my facts, I asked the question in a thread on SCWF. General concensus was that it was just fitted with the wrong bezel (or insert) off a 7A28-703B / -7039. However one poster did comment along the lines that it was 'all so new looking'. Anyway, lots of people seemed to like it - wrong 'un or not.  It sold 2 days ago, for a very respectable $536 after 34 bids (and 1950 views !!). 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183161222990

This well-worn gold-tone 7A48-5000, a head only, fitted with the wrong case-back off a stainless two-tone 7A48-7000 was listed in the early hours of this morning, by a US eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $49, and with the option to make an offer. I probably wouldn't have even noticed it, but it came up in one of my eBay saved favourite search notifications, because of something the seller had included in the description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264653208457

The description originally read:

New battery. Manufactured August, 1984 (from Seiko 7A38 forum) in good shape.

Light scratches on the crystal and the back.

No watch band.

Check the photos as they are part of the description.

I'll admit I was annoyed, having initially construed their reference to this forum as deliberate keyword spamming. In hindsight, they were possibly quite innocently referring to the D-I-Y Production Date Calculator thread. I blasted off a sharply worded message asking them to remove the offending text, as I had no affiliation with the seller. I followed up a few hours later with a chaser. They subsequently complied and edited their description at lunchtime today.

They sent me two replies to my messages, apologising and complimenting me on the site. However, they still haven't corrected the model suffix in their listing title, nor stated in the description that the watch is fitted with the wrong case-back. From the tone of their message, they would appear to believe it's correct - which if you check the photos, as they suggest, specifically the 4th one, it patently isn't. 

Rather than correct it, the US eBay seller subsequently ended the listing, because of an error, in the early hours of this morning. At the time of writing, they haven't yet re-listed it. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264653208457

Seiko7A38 at May 7, 2017 at 11:36 AM

So much for being no longer available. 

It's back on Yahoo Japan auctions again, almost a year since it first re-appeared on there, re-listed earlier this afternoon by the same probably not quite so 'happy' seller. 

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r184167642

Note the price has now come down by 14,000 Yen, from the previous 'pie-in-the-sky' asking price of 39,800 to 'only' 25,800 Yen.

At least that's now heading towards the right ball-park for such a used example - equivalent to approx. $230 USD / £175 GBP.

It really does beg the question why he hasn't made the effort to sort out the chronograph hands though. 

Ever get that feeling of Double, Triple or even Quadruple Déjà Vu ?

That familiar 7A38-704A, in average worn condition, fitted with two incorrect chronograph hands, off a brown-coated 7A38-6020, which has featured in this thread a number of times before (starting on the first page, with my post in July 2012 and latterly 3 years ago, in May 2017, per my quote from the bottom of the previous page) is back on Yahoo Japan auctions once again.

It was listed earlier today, as a 7-day auction, with a frankly ridiculous opening bid price of 75,000 Yen (more than 3 times some of its earlier asking prices), by the greedy would-be profiteering YJ re-seller l_h_m_m.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/472371970

Google translates the Japanese seller's duplicated description as follows:

[Rare] Seiko SEIKO 7A38-704A Speedmaster Giugiaro generation Overseas model [rare]

 Thank you for visiting. We will put up a collection for housekeeping. 

【Product Details】

It will be an operating item. The day difference is unknown, but there is no extreme progress or delay.

Batteries replaced.

The case / belt has some invisible small scratches and some color baldness, but I think it is in a beautiful condition.

The glass may have some invisible small scratches, but it is in good condition overall.

There may be operational problems between bidding, shipping and arrival. We will do our best to serve you as seriously as possible.

Thank you for your understanding and understanding that this is a very old product. 

Please refrain from bidding if you do not understand the above. 

[Product size]

Case width approximately 42 mm

Around arm 17cm (There are some coma. See photo) 

【Notes】

Please cooperate with the following requests so that we can make a good deal with each other .

・ Basically, we cannot accept returns. No claim, no return.

・ If you do not contact us within 3 days after making a successful bid, please note that we will consider it as cancellation due to customer's convenience.

・ We will respond promptly and politely. If you have any questions, please contact us from Transaction Navi. 

【Regarding delivery】

Me, yaf cat! Since I have no experience with, I basically plan to deliver by Yu-Pack.

If you would like anonymous delivery, you can select Yahoo! Cat, but it may be delayed.

Please note.  

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us. 

Thank you very much. 

(Added 20:50 on May 4, 2020)

[Rare] Seiko SEIKO 7A38-704A Speedmaster Giugiaro generation Overseas model [rare] 

Thank you for visiting. We will put up a collection for housekeeping. 

【Product Details】

It will be an operating item. The day difference is unknown, but there is no extreme progress or delay.

Batteries replaced.

The case / belt has some invisible small scratches and some color baldness, but I think it is in a beautiful condition.

The glass may have some invisible small scratches, but it is in good condition overall.

There may be operational problems between bidding, shipping and arrival. We will do our best to serve you as seriously as possible.

Thank you for your understanding and understanding that this is a very old product. 

Please refrain from bidding if you do not understand the above. 

[Product size]

Case width approx. 38 mm

Arm circumference approximately 18.5 cm (no extra coma) 

【Notes】

Please cooperate with the following requests so that we can make a good deal with each other.

・ Basically, we cannot accept returns. No claim, no return.

・ If you do not contact us within 3 days after making a successful bid, please note that we will consider it as cancellation due to customer's convenience.

・ We will respond promptly and politely. If you have any questions, please contact us from Transaction Navi. 

【Regarding delivery】

Me, yaf cat! Since I have no experience with, I basically plan to deliver by Yu-Pack.

If you would like anonymous delivery, you can select Yahoo! Cat, but it may be delayed.

Please note. 

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us. 

Thank you very much.

I guess it was inevitable - just a matter of time before it rocked up on eBay. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383553054380

This well-worn stainless 7A38-706A, fitted with a leather strap, which judging by the state of the dial batons, may have suffered a severe battery leak, was listed earlier this evening by an Albanian eBay seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of $199 USD.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193498099872

As underlined in my screen print, he's cocked up the model number, erroneously listing it as a 7A38-7270. Indeed, he's repeated the mistake in his description. However, if you check his 8th listing photo, ironically, transpires that it's actually fitted with the wrong case-back off a stainless 7A38-7190 !! 

Here's a belated update on that 7A38-704A, fiited with two incorrect chronograph hands, listed on Yahoo Japan by would-be profiteering re-seller l_h_m_m, at the beginning of May. For the first month, he'd continued to automatically re-list it, every 7 days, at the same opening bid price of 75,000 Yen. He then dropped that slightly, to 70,000 Yen - not surprisingly, still without success.

Last week, to my surprise, he re-listed it again as a new 7-day auction, but this time with an opening bid price of 1 Yen, with the option of a 'Prompt Decision' Buy-it-Now price of 50,000 Yen.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/476893205

The auction ended yesterday, with it finally selling for ¥35,600 Yen after 58 bids, equivalent to approx. $336.20 USD / £257 GBP.

Here follows a copy and paste of a post I've just made earlier this morning in the

Yet another 7Axx on an undisclosed non-original bracelet .... thread

This well worn two-tone 7A38-7260, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet was listed late yesterday evening, by an Italian eBay seller, as a 10-day auction with a risibly optimistic opening bid price of $239.99 US. Those of you already familiar with this model will know that none of the three 7A38-7260 case finishes came supplied with a bracelet. All were factory fitted with leather straps. It's impossible to read the part number in the seller's out-of-focus photo of the case-back, but I suspect the bracelet fitted may be a Seiko B1707C, mentioned at the top of the previous page. Although, if it is one, the SEIKO logo is missing from the clasp.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164325077946

A vintage from 1990 circa chronograph Seiko named speed master 7a38 7260 

waterproof NOT TESTED 

38 mm diameter crown off 

Dial Original in PERFECT SHAPE 

EXCELLENT conditions of the case 

The 7a38 movement HASN NOT RECENTLY SERVICED BUT WORKING FINE IN ALL PARTS 

ORIGINAL Seiko steel band for medium male wrist.  

Shipping 22usd for USA up to 5 weeks NORMALLY 2 WEEKS delivery time for Customs rules.

32 usd by EMS full trackable for the rest of the world

Always Money Back. Buyer pays returns postage.

However, besides the incorrect replacement, there's rather more wrong with this.

So, I'm going to write it up in parallel, in another equally / more appropriate thread.

Firstly let me qualify the following critique of this watch. It's virtually impossible to read all the stampings in the Italian eBay seller's out-of-focus photo of the polished case-back. Having studied all his photos, there are traces of gold plating visible on the bezel and the crown is gold plated. So I have assumed that it started life as a two-tone 7A38-7260 (SAA098J). However the 718L dial appears to be white, rather than light grey normally found in that variant. The white 718L dial is used in the gold-tone 7A38-7260 (SAA100J) and the two-tone 7A38-726A (SAA102J). The other possibility is that the watch head was originally a gold-tone 7A38-7260 and has almost completely been stripped of its gold plating and polished. Presumably in an effort to make it more attractive to an unwary buyer, the originally gold anodised sweep second hand has been replaced by a red one and the pointers of the 1/10S and 30 minute sub-dial hands painted red to match.

In the words of the Bard ....

At the risk of repeating myself .... Oh Soddit ! I'll just do a straight copy and paste:

Ever get that feeling of Double, Triple or even Quadruple Déjà Vu ?

That familiar 7A38-704A, in average worn condition, fitted with two incorrect chronograph hands, off a brown-coated 7A38-6020, which has featured in this thread a number of times before (starting on the first page, with my post in July 2012 and latterly 3 years ago, in May 2017, per my quote from the bottom of the previous page) is back on Yahoo Japan auctions once again.

See also my more recent posts, higher up this page, when it last sold only three weeks ago, on 31st July for 35,600 Yen. It's back on Yahoo Japan auctions yet again, listed earlier today by another would-be profiteering re-seller. This time (which I doubt will be his last) as only a 1-day auction with a greedily inflated opening bid price of 59,800 Yen.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g449929705

Google translates the latest Japanese re-seller's description as follows:

Only the main body of SEIKO SEIKO 7A38 Speed ​​Master is exhibited.

It is about 17 cm around the arm.

On the glass surface, you can see a shallow line scratch that can be seen slightly depending on the angle.

Belts include scratches and baldness.

It is currently in operation, but please note that the battery will run out after receipt.

Those who care about trivial matters including oversight, those who are nervous should refrain from bidding.

No claim & no return, please.