Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Only yesterday, I added a post to an old thread in the General Discussion area, bemoaning Google's decision to make all searches invisible to SEO's and website owners, by encrypting them as secure searches. Of course other search engines such as Microsoft's Bing still provide a limited amount of information. Long after I'd written that, in fact early this morning, I went back and checked the forum's control panel and saw that yesterday's incoming search tally closed at 64 [secure search] versus 8 (total) [info provided].

Nothing really of great interest unfortunately. 

But I had another look this evening. Here's what 29th October's incoming theoretically non-Google searches have yielded so far:

That search I've ringed came in from Germany - via google.de !!  The visitor spent nearly an hour looking around the forum:

I'm not sure he found what he was researching. But then with a quick search on eBay myself, perhaps I subsequently have:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390689319854

As you can just about make out, by zooming in on the collage of images the seller has embedded in his listing description:

This was once a 7A28-703B, which before it got butchered would have looked something like this:

Rather than this mess it does now:

With it's shaved insert-less bezel and incorrect replacement bracelet, I personally wouldn't go so far as to call this a Franken 7A28.

Indeed, you may remember the first line of my first post:

And yet another thread - a category for watches that aren't exactly blatant Frankens .... just not quite as they should be.

But this is where it gets interesting. 

The eBay seller is Fiedler-urhenhandel, a previously documented purveyor of misrepresented botched watches and a profiteering reseller to boot: Lukas Fiedler - a.k.a. The Fiddler. He's been mentioned in the Name and Shame thread in the Members Lounge. 

He gives his location (twice) in that eBay listing as Garbsen. Garbsen is a small town (pop. 60,000) 10Km N.W. of Hanover.

Guess where the IP address of that German visitor from earlier today located him to ? Shall I keep zooming in on the map ? 

Perhaps it's just sheer coincidence, but note the German title of the eBay listing:

SEIKO 7A28 SYNCHROTIMER HERREN UHR +1st ANALOG QUARZ CHRONOGRAPH DER WELT + RARE

and compare it with the wording of the Seiko advert above - which is also posted in a thread in the 7Axx General Discussion area:

SEIKO SYNCHROTIMER - The World's first Analogue Quartz Chronograph.

Now try googling SEIKO SYNCHROTIMER (as one word) - you won't find (m)any results. Well at least he did some homework. 

Seiko7A38 at October 9, 2013 at 6:22 PM

First time out in April it sold for $61. Resold in July for 61 Euros. If anybody is stupid enough to pay £61 for this junk, they deserve it !

I should have known that was 'a kiss of death' when I wrote it.  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350888039355

But I'm not going to eat my hat, because it was won by a zero-feedback bidder. 

See: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=350888039355

Speaking of eBay feedback, I had to smile to myself at seller top-watch4u's current feedback number 666 - the same as my own.

 

Well at least it went for 'only' £59 this time around.  I can't believe the winning bidder actually sniped it to win.  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350908920039

Apart from the ridiculously over-optimistic pricing and the fact that these two two-tone 7A38's are anything but rare ....

Can anybody else spot this watch-botching US eBay seller's not quite so deliberate mistake(s) ? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181313930721

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171231787902

Looks to me like the case backs are switched.

Let's see......, 1watcher, and "Doesn't post to United Kingdom" Hmmmm. 

PK, "the greasy finger screen-wiping brigade."

Correct, Paul ! 

Apart from the obviously incorrect listing titles ....

If you know your Seiko bracelet part numbers for these two models (B1412 for the 7A38-7190 and B1627 for the 7A38-7280) ....

His cock-up is also visible in the 10th photo of each listing:

He's not the first and I'm sure he won't be the last. Apart from Filipino watch-botcher Badingski's similar screw up in April last year (documented on the previous page), there was a UK eBay seller beswickjohn who mixed up the case-backs between a stainless 7A38-7270 and a stainless 7A38-7280 in November last year. These were his two original listings:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200984805679

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200984801650

I took pity on him and pointed out his mistake - but he still needed a considerable amount of convincing. I mean what do I know ?  

You may have noticed that I try not to be too critical of José 'Watchcooking' Sotto's eBay auctions for Seiko 7Axx's - at least compared to the scathing manner in which I'll frequently dismiss those of other Filipino watch botchers. Whereas his offerings are sometimes not much better than theirs, they're usually accurately and honestly described. However, I'm disappointed to say that José's standards appear to be falling lately. Last night a forum member emailed me a link to José's latest offering - a 7A38-7180 - in disgust:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370992595195

Apart from the hideously inappropriate replacement hour and minute hands (and non-matching constant seconds hand) fitted there's something else wrong with this watch, which José has eluded to but not declared openly in his description. The watch may be fitted with an English / German day wheel, but it's the wrong colour. The 7A38-7180 should use white lettered on black background day and date wheels. Ergo I'd strongly suspect this watch has been given a complete movement swap.

Here's an old library photo of mine (apologies if it's a re-post) showing how a 7A38-7180 should look:

O.K. It's Quiz Time.  Anybody else like to have a go at saying what's wrong with this 7A38-7060 listed by an Italian eBay seller ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111276328051

Raro cronografo Seiko modello " Chronograph 7A38-7060 " 1 /10S

movimento quarzo - perfettamente funzionante in tutte le funzioni - revisionato recentemente

Bracciale in acciaio autentico dell'epoca

Vetro minerale privo da graffi 

Diametro cassa escluso corona : 36 mm 

Buona asta

I'm not sure----The bezel does not belong for sure---and maybe the back belongs to the two-tone version ?

You're on the right track, Don.  The clue is on the case-back - or should I say; in something that isn't on the case-back. 

Stainless steel---so everything ok except bezel ?

Far from it Don. Try again ! 

PS - There's another clue in the (unrelated) email I just sent you. 

Case back dates May 1984 and that dial is from '86-'88  ????

The case back doesn't mention the gold plating on the bezel, maybe?

Exactly, Fabio - but as I hinted to Don, I suspect there's rather more to it than that. 

At first glance, the casual observer might think that they were looking at a two-tone 7A38-7060.

To start with, there's the gold plated bezel and the light silvery grey metallic coloured dial. But then look closely at the case-back, which is stamped 7A38-7060, you'll see it just says 'STAINLESS STEEL' not 'ST.STEEL SGP BEZEL' as you'd expect to find on the two-tone.

The bracelet is a p/n G1105, but it's the all stainless 'S' version rather than the two-tone 'C' version, with the thin strips of gold plating on the inner links. The pushers and crown are not plated - all of which ties in with the 'STAINLESS' 7A38-7060 case-back. So parts of the watch are 'correct'.

I believe the dial is not from a two-tone 7A38-7060, but a US market 7A38-7069. Although these two dials (Seiko p/n's 708LXN14 and 708LXN28) look very similar, there is a subtle difference between them: the 7A38-7069 dial has thin black lines painted on the batons. It's also fitted with black painted hour and minute hands, whereas the (European export model) two-tone 7A38-7060 has gold-plated batons and matching hour and minute hands.

Where this seller has slipped up, in my book - and what made their subterfuge more obvious, is that for reasons best known to them, they've used the silvery-white Tachymeter ring from the stainless 7A38-7060, rather than the silvery-grey one from the 7A38-7069. Sandwiched between that gold-plated bezel (presumably off the 7A38-7069) and the silvery-grey dial, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Note also that the day wheel shows DOM in the seller's photos - the Spanish abbreviation for Sunday. 7A38-7069's are invariably fitted with English / Spanish day wheels. Of course, it may just be the the way the seller's photos are lit. I may be completely wrong. 

In case you're unfamiliar with the three variations of 7A38-706x I've cited above, here's links to photos I've posted in the WRUW thread:

7A38-7060 SAA015J Stainless: http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/Seiko7A38/7A38-706x/P1090949.jpg

7A38-7060 SAA016J Two-Tone: http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/Seiko7A38/7A38-706x/P1100928.jpg 

7A38-7069 SAA028J Two-Tone: http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa373/Seiko7A38/7A38-706x/P1090699.jpg

How were we supposed to guess all of that?   You're clearly the only one in the world that would have.  My only thought is the usual one: why in the world does anyone have to spend so much time and efforts to build up a mess like that? They clearly mixed up two different watches creating one that will probably sell for a tenner more or less...

Because it CAN be done   AND be rare    "The only one in the world "    lol    

And yet another thread - a category for watches that aren't exactly blatant Frankens .... just not quite as they should be.

The first, not a complete surprise to me really, from one of the regular offenders - 'Badingski', a.k.a. Ramoncito Bangit. 

Perhaps I need to create another more specifically titled topic in this section: Heads up on another blatant 7A28 Franken ....

Because this latest offering from Filipino arch-watch-botcher Ramoncito Bangit Badingski is just exactly that. No half measures here. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121275155387

As usual the word 'ORIGINAL' is bandied all over the place. What you have to remember when looking at Badingski's botched-up 7Axx listings is that it doesn't necessarily mean original to this watch. The dial of course is out of a common-or-garden gold-tone 7A28-7029.

The 'Pepsi' bezel insert (conveniently not mentioned in the description) is the typical aftermarket repro' 6139-6002 item.

The non-original bracelet fitted appears to be one of the better quality FEIKO offerings that are cropping up lately.

This should be pretty obvious to most of the membership, but I'm just flagging this US eBay listing for the benefit of any recent joiners / new readers, who may be deliberating over the purchase of their first Seiko 7A28 or 7A38. There couple of reasons to avoid this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281274041675

Please read the description and view all the photos carefully before buying.

Vintage Seiko Quartz Chronograph

Model# 7A28-7049

Serial# 361699

The watch keeps time and changes the day and date as it should. The chronograph seems to be stuck. The pushers get stuck as well. The watch as wear all around. Sold as is for parts or repair. Please view all the photos carefully as they are major part of the description. If you have any questions please ask first before buying. What you see is what you will get. International buyers please ask first for shipping costs before buying. Thank you and have a wonderful day.

Apart from the faults / warnings in the seller's description - you should indeed study the photos closely: the smudged dial printing is a sign of either moisture ingress, or that its movement has possibly been 'dunked' in solvent. Also the watch is actually a 7A38-702H (or maybe 7A38-702A) fitted with the wrong case-back off a 7A28-7049 (as cited in the title and description). Like I said, pretty obvious. 

Seiko7A38 at February 3, 2014 at 6:41 AM

You may have noticed that I try not to be too critical of José 'Watchcooking' Sotto's eBay auctions for Seiko 7Axx's - at least compared to the scathing manner in which I'll frequently dismiss those of other Filipino watch botchers. Whereas his offerings are sometimes not much better than theirs, they're usually accurately and honestly described. However, I'm disappointed to say that José's standards appear to be falling lately. Last night a forum member emailed me a link to José's latest offering - a 7A38-7180 - in disgust:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370992595195

Apart from the hideously inappropriate replacement hour and minute hands (and non-matching constant seconds hand) fitted there's something else wrong with this watch, which José has eluded to but not declared openly in his description. The watch may be fitted with an English / German day wheel, but it's the wrong colour. The 7A38-7180 should use white lettered on black background day and date wheels. Ergo I'd strongly suspect this watch has been given a complete movement swap.

Here's an old library photo of mine (apologies if it's a re-post) showing how a 7A38-7180 should look:

I wouldn't normally bother following up on such listings, either - I've got better things to do.  Looks like I'm going to have to now. 

For the record, José 'Watchcooking' Sotto's $9.99 low start auction ended at $142.50 after only 3 bids:

Somebody must have wanted it pretty badly !

Just come back from Friday night supermarket shopping, thinking I'm going to have a quiet evening and put my feet up ....

Log onto the forum for a quick looksee and find I've got not one, but two new PM's both sending me links to this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221384221406

No names, but one of the members described it rather less than polite terms. 

The would-be profiteering re-Seller Sonntagsuhr, is Maksym Petrakivskyy - well documented in the Name and Shame thread in the Member's Lounge. Like many of his kind, he's forever buying cr*p like this from the Philippines and re-listing it at ridiculous mark-ups.

Anyway - well spotted Guys (not that it was particularly hard to spot) and thanks for the PM 'heads up' (plural).

PS - There's nothing stopping you writing something like this up yourselves of course.