Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Slevin Kelevra at April 23, 2020 at 5:18 AM

Hi folks,

I'm new here and just getting into Seikos of all shapes and sizes.

I recently purchased this for £380, did I do ok? I think these watches are very cool!

Thanks  

I'd say you did pretty well for both a first post and first 7Axx purchase, David. 

Beginner's Lucky Number 7, or number of the beast '666' (serial # is 466679).

Pity you didn't post it in the 7A38-7070 model specific thread, instead of here.

I obviously missed spotting it, because I haven't mentioned it there. Naturally I'd automatically have done so, if I had. Was it listed on eBay ? Or somewhere else ?

PS - Please don't quote my reply. I've only quoted you to carry over to next page.

Hi, 

Thanks for the response and good news!  I've been looking at 7a Chronos for a little while and found this one on the Omega Forums where I normally reside.  

It wasn't listed anywhere, it was a WTB I had posted and a forum member reached out to me. The watch is currently on its way to me from Vienna. 

Apologies for not posting in the correct section, I shall do that now if agreeable?

Thanks, Dave.

David.

Please don't get me wrong - you haven't posted in the wrong section. It is a newest incoming 7Axx (for you). Yes, please could you also (re)post it in parallel in the 7A38-7070 model specific thread, adding in the detail from your above post.

Seiko7A38 at June 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Ah Yes - the stainless 'stolen' 7A38-7280, of eBay bid cancellation notoriety. 

You're not alone in hating the standard fitment non-adjustable clasp closer, Arpad. It is indeed uncomfortable to wear on a daily basis, because it allows the tail of the Z-fold to move from side to side, and dig into the underside of your wrist. Fitting a longer clasp cover not only solves the problem of any shortage of missing adjustment links, it also locates the Z-fold positively and stops it moving about.

I find the 5-hole 25mm long clasp works just as well as the 7-hole 35mm clasp. I have both lengths on my 2 7A38-7280 daily wearers. 

Hi,

I have recently purchased the 7A38-7280 and would like to change the clasp. Where can i find a 7 hole, 35mm clasp? 

Search eBay regularly - either for the clasp, or a broken bracelet that includes one.

Just wanted to update that I picked up the 7280 that I have been looking for, and I am buzzing. 

I was a bit worried my expectations were so high that I would be let down when I finally saw one in person, but wow it's stunning. The second I opened the box I realised I had actually been underestimating it. I think photos really can't capture this watch's charm (or most watches) because they blow up all the small and intricate details. (I will post a few anyway, of course). 

it popped up close to me in the UK, fully stripped down and serviced and snaggable for a little over £300 which seemed reasonable (thanks for your advice on this, Paul) particularly compared to some of the ridiculous prices I've seen over the last few months. I took the risk on a new ebay seller with no previous sales and I'm so glad I did, it's immaculate and working beautifully.

Hi all,

After a few days spent realising I agree with all the previous complaints about the stock 16mm length clasp on my new 7280, I'm planning to do the common replacement with the longer SQ clasp, which arrived in the post this morning.

The problem is I can't quite work out how to remove the old one. Removing the spring bar where the clasp meets the bracelet at the 12 o clock is easy enough, but I'm not sure about the 6 o clock end where the clasp actually closes. Watching videos online suggests that there is a pin that goes through the clasp and the final bracelet link, and this pin needs to be knocked out with a hammer, but as far as I can tell there is no hole at either end that would enable me to knock the pin through. The pin seems instead to be 'hooked' in place by the final bracelet link. It looks like it should be possible to unhook the pin by wiggling but I can't. Is it just a matter of prying this hook open to free the pin and put the new one in, before forcing it closed again? I'm reluctant to force anything but not sure how else it could work.

Paul I understand from your comments earlier in this thread that you have replaced this clasp at least twice before, do you have any advice?

Many thanks!

Joe

My belated apologies to Joe, for having overlooked replying to his previous post. I'm sure the answer has already been posted elsewhere and hopefully he's already sussed it for himself. There are basically two ways of going about this. You can either remove the longer clasp cover from the donor Z-fold, by inserting a blade near the pivot point and twisting, being careful not to distort the side edge of the clasp. Alternatively you can remove and swap the entire clasp assemblies, by carefully bending down the locking tabs and driving out the pin (which connects the Z-fold to the bracelet) with a pin pusher. Obviously, when re-fitting the clasp assembly to the other bracelet, you need to be circumspect bending the tabs back up. You only get one chance before they snap off. Sometimes, instead of being retained by tabs, the ends of the pin appear to be peened over (looking like the ends of a rivet bar). In these cases, I'll grind the head off one end, using a dremel, and push the pin out. When replacing it, I retain it with a tiny blob of silver solder.

Anyway, to get this thread  I thought it was about time I wrote up my newest incoming acquisition - another rather distinctive non-Seiko 7A38. It actually arrived a couple of weeks ago, but it wasn't until yesterday afternoon that I finally got round to sorting out a niggling minor fault. All it took was a tiny blob of Loctite.

Rewind (pun intended) back to the first week of August ....

A UK eBay seller listed a Cartier Ferrari Formula Cal. 531 chronograph as a 10-day auction, with an opening bid of £75, with a reserve price set.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124284263364

Cartier Ferrari Formula chronograph watch on leather strap 1990

Cartier Ferrari Formula chronograph watch on leather strap. Received as a gift in October 1990 and wore it no more than five times. It has remained in its box ever since. Had it valued in October 2012 out of interest. Comes with its box, International Guarantee, and manual. Bought from les must de Cartier (Heathrow Airport). As per brief research: ‘some of the companies producing watches with a link to Ferrari - however ambiguous - include Cartier with 120 Ferrari-badged chronographs in the 1990s’.

The auction ended with bidding @ £360 and reserve price not met.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124284263364

The UK eBay seller re-listed it as another 10-day auction. This time the bidding reached £421, but still with the reserve price not met.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124297755624

He re-listed it again almost immediately, but ended that re-listing after only a couple of minutes - as allegedly no longer available.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124309702739

I'd bid on all three listings (my bid on the last one was cancelled in the process). The highest (losing) bid that I placed on the first two auctions was a 'throwaway' £345.67. I'd been in contact with the seller from Day #1. Firstly to express my concerns about the discoloured hex-nut pusher button at 2 o'clock and to ask him what the reserve price was. He divulged it was set at £500, which I opined was unrealistic, particularly as the watch was a non-runner. 

I wasn't particularly enamoured with it (hence my comparatively low 'throwaway' bids), because this slightly unusual combination of polished case, black anodised bezel, black dial and tan leather strap wasn't exactly my ideal - and I certainly had no intention of paying 'silly money' for it. I thought no more of it, until ....

On 16th October, out of the blue, I received a series of messages from the seller:

Hi there, following up on our previous exchanged messages. I still have not sold the watch. I have tried elsewhere. I would consider a lower offer. Let me know if you are interested.

You may remember I had set the reserve at £500.00 and this was based on a 2012 valuation. Perhaps not realistic as it turned out. I was offered £421.00 by someone, but for some reason the sale did not progress. I would go as low as £375 (excluding postage). I would however, like this to be the figure once eBay takes their piece.

I never checked who the bidders were or what the offers were. I just want to sell the watch and get a reasonable price for it. Based on what you've just said re your bids, I would accept £350. I would however, like this to be the amount I actually get. How that happens via eBay, I had no clue.

I construed his last (partial) message as hinting at a transaction outside of eBay - something I'm not averse to, but decided not to follow up and didn't send a reply.

The following morning, he re-listed it as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of £300, no reserve and free postage. The details of the listing were, on the whole much the same as before, but with a slightly different description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124390976089

This watch was gifted to me in October 1990. It was purchased from a Cartier shop at Heathrow Airport at the time. It was worn only a few times then, in 1990, and has remained in its box ever since. This is with the exception of October 2012 when I took it to a jeweller to be valued. It was valued at £650.00. The watch has never been serviced and needs a new battery.

I placed an opening bid of £300. Bearing in mind it had been bid higher in previous auctions, I didn't really expect to win this time either. At one point, this re-listing had 40 watchers and throughout the 7-day duration received 469 views. So with a couple of seconds remaining, I chucked in my usual 'throwaway' bid of £345.67. Nobody else bid and I won it for £300 ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124390976089

The seller delayed shipping it for a couple of days and as I wrote previously, the package arrived a fortnight ago (today). Upon opening it and giving the watch a cursory once-over, one thing became immediately evident and that was that the seller had clearly lied in his descriptions about how much the watch had been worn. (....no more than five times / only a few times). Either that, or he'd been extremely careless when wearing it. However, that wasn't my main concern. Obviously buying any quartz watch that's allegedly been left neglected with a run-down battery for 25 years is something of a gamble. That evening, I unscrewed the case-back expecting to find the worst. It was on murder tight, but eventually succumbed to the 'prototype' WatchmeHK case-back removal tool assisted with lashings of aerosol freezer.

Thankfully the movement was squeaky clean, with no evidence of battery acid damage. The Renata #394 battery fitted had just started to weep. Note Renata - not a brand you'd normally expect to find fitted 'as new' in a Cartier Ferrari Formula - indicating that it had been replaced at least once - further deception by the seller.

I gave the battery recess and negative contact a cautionary dab with Rodico and fitted a new battery (Seizaiken #394); flipped the watch over, relieved to see the seconds hand had started ticking away. The inbuilt self-test partly confirmed the chronograph functions worked correctly. Then I pulled out the crown, to set the hands and day / date. Nothing happened !! 

Initially I suspected a slipping clutch wheel (or possible damage to the keyless works). At that point I considered returning it to the seller. Instead, in disgust, I left it for 2 weeks. I re-visited it yesterday afternoon. Obviously to wind the hands on, or advance the date, you need to rotate the crown anti-clockwise. Neither worked. Eventually the crown completely unscrewed, leaving less than 1mm of threaded stem protruding from the crown tube. I unscrewed the case-back and withdrew the stem; gingerly threaded the crown back on and re-inserted it. Not quite the same result - I couldn't reset the chrono hands to Zero (in the first setting position). But at least when the crown was pushed fully home, the hour and minute hands continued to move of their own accord. So I withdrew the dial / movement and fitted a random / worn Seiko crown and stem to it. Everything worked OK. This pointed to the crown stem being too short. I dug out another of my Cartier Ferrari Formula's, removed the crown and stem and compared their lengths - strangely they were virtually identical. With nothing to lose, I put a tiny blob of Loctite on the stem and threaded the 'errant' crown back on; left it to cure and re-inserted it. Bingo !

This morning, when I opened the box, the watch was showing the correct time and the day / date had advanced overnight.

So am I pleased with my comparatively cheap Cartier Ferrari Formula purchase ? Yes and No. I'm disappointed with the received condition (compared to what I'd been led to expect, based on the seller's descriptions, regarding the amount it had been worn). Plus the annoying issue with the loose crown. I was fully aware of the badly discoloured hex-nut pusher button at two o'clock and with NOS replacements being rarer than rocking horse droppings, there's not much I can do about that.

Thing is, if I'm honest, this slightly unusual variant (rare as it may be) wasn't exactly what I wanted to add to my collection. I really wanted that black dial in the black ion plated watch case. So there was more than one reason (besides comparing crown stem lengths) why I got this other watch out, which incidentally I've owned for over 9 years. Funnily enough this one also came with a flat battery and was comparatively cheap (£205 off eBay UK in September 2011).

Another reason was that the deployant clasp used on the later leather strap variants can not only be uncomfortable to wear, but the instruction leaflet for adjusting them (and particularly the illustrations) are a bit vague. I needed to refresh my memory ....

I remembered having successfully tweaked that one to fit better - by inverting the serrated cam roller and flattening the curve of the Z-fold sections, so that they no longer dug into my wrist (old photos from 2011).

So after quickly polishing out the 'desk diver' marks, I did the same with this clasp. The third reason was to weigh up something I've been mulling over since I won the auction. Potentially, by swapping over their bezels, Tachymeter rings and dial / movements between the cases / leather straps, I could create two rather more attractive permutations.

 Model # F6424402 Model # F6434403

Paul, it's always a pleasure reading your write-up of a successful hunt!

Cheers, Dave.

My next 'newest incoming' is an another Cartier Ferrari Formula Cal. 531 '7A38'. My Christmas present from me to me. Though I have severe doubts whether it will arrive in time for Christmas. All I ask is that, with Brexit finally looming, is that it clears UK Customs before 1st January 2021, thereby avoiding paying 20% VAT.

It's a less common variant; the subtlest of the three with Ferrari sub-dials. According to the catalogue illustration, it's model # F610.48.82.

It was listed a week or so ago, by a German eBay seller, as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of 1 Euro and no reserve. It's supposed to be 'new and unworn', though that's not entirely borne out by the photos. One sentence in the description translates as: I offer the watch from one euro, maybe someone is still looking for a great Christmas present.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164571420662

Cartier Ferrari Uhr Formula Chronograph

Hallo, 

ich verkaufe hier meine Ferrariuhr von Cartier.

Nachdem ich mich vom Fahrzeug getrennt habe, ist auch die Uhr über.

Die Uhr ist ungetragen und lag 20 Jahre in der Vitrine.

Sie wird mit der Originalbox und Papieren verkauft.

Die Drücker und Lünette sind wohl vergoldet.

Die Uhr war letzte Woche zur Kontrolle und zum Batteriewechsel beim Uhrmacher.

Ich biete die Uhr ab einem Euro an, vielleicht sucht noch jemand ein tolles Weihnachtsgeschenk.

Versand erfolgt sofort nach Bezahlung. 

Viel Spaß beim Bieten. 

Natürlich handelt es sich hier um einen Privatverkauf, darum sind Umtausch und Rücknahme ausgeschlossen.

I'd bid it up to nearly 200 Euros, but was conscious that I was up against a few 'heavy hitters'. By yesterday eving, the bidding had already reached 436 Euros and I nearly walked away. But I relented and put in a 'banzai' bid in the final seconds and won it for 506 Euros. Not too excessive, if it is actually 'new and unworn', but rather more than I'd hoped. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164571420662

I paid the seller overnight using TransferWise (amazing service - the transaction took only 6 seconds, before my payment was in his bank account and cost me only £3.32 in fees - at the true exchange rate). He's just emailed me the tracking number - so fingers crossed.

This one landed a few days ago: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-Quartz-chronograph-titanium-sports100-Black-and-Gold-Mens-Watch/193604667825

Pay no mind to the Buy It Now price. I offered and the seller agreed to significantly less than that. Given the poor quality photos and lack of description, I figured it was a significant risk, but I've been on the lookout for the various titanium 7A28 and 7A38 models, many of which are exorbitantly priced when they appear, and thought I might get lucky here.

Sadly, I did not get lucky with respect to the condition of the watch. The bracelet is a poor quality Spiedel (I knew it was non-original even in the fuzzy photos). The cosmetic condition of the case, dial, and hands is actually not bad at all, but the pushers and movement need some work.

The pushers are quite sticky - top right has a fairly positive action still, but top left and bottom right are very gummed up. More distressing is the fact that the movement is in bad shape. Nothing moved on arrival. After swapping in a fresh Maxell battery, the main dial chrono second hand and the right subdial both function. The main dial hour and minute timekeeping hands however do not appear to move, nor do the left and bottom subdials. 

Given that the item description set the expectation that only a battery change was needed, I had decided to save myself some hassle and just opened a return, noting that the movement was essentially non-functional in its current state. The seller responded by stating that he didn't want to bother trying to validate the condition and offered to refund roughly two-thirds of my purchase price, which I accepted.

So...I now possess a cosmetically decent example of a 7A28-7069 that needs a fairly significant overhaul, and some kind of bracelet or strap solution. I did open it up for the battery change and was encouraged that there wasn't really any apparent corrosion from battery leakage or water intrusion. I've paid just a bit more than a gas fillup for my Mazda 3 would cost me.

Decisions, decisions.

I recently bought another 7A48-5000.   It's movement is very good and is generally in pleasing condition.  However, again the band has a declared missing gold bar. 

Last one (of a dozen) I asked a friend to micro-argon the failed link.  He sized a rod of real gold to overcome the missing bit!  I can't ask again, so am not quite sure how to proceed. 

The bands are attractive, but prone to failure. One NOS one recently had a Buy Now price of £170.  Not viable. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-7A48N5000-MOONPHASE-CHRONOGRAPH-QUARTZ-SPORTS-100-FULLY-WORKING-NO-RESERVE-/124471902355

Seiko7A38 at December 18, 2020 at 6:47 AM

My next 'newest incoming' is an another Cartier Ferrari Formula Cal. 531 '7A38'. My Christmas present from me to me. Though I have severe doubts whether it will arrive in time for Christmas. All I ask is that, with Brexit finally looming, is that it clears UK Customs before 1st January 2021, thereby avoiding paying 20% VAT.

I suppose I should post an update on my newest incoming non-Seiko 7A38 - the Cartier Ferrari Formula Cal. 531, that I'd treated myself to as a Christmas present.

It turned into something of a long-running saga, with an unsatisfactory ending.

The seller had shipped it by DHL Parcel on 18th December, which theoretically meant it could possibly arrive just in time for Christmas. Needless to say, I'd been watching the tracking like a hawk. Something seemed to be going slightly awry with the shipment updates from 22nd December onwards, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Then on the afternoon of 24th December, Christmas Eve, it showed as having been 'Delivered' - but in Germany. It had been returned to the seller !!  

Needless to say I was not impressed - neither was the German eBay seller. An acrimonious exchange of emails and eBay messages ensued. Initially, he tried to blame me for providing incorrect address details (which was bullshit). He'd entered them in a slightly different order (as dictated by the DHL format), but everything was present and correct. When he calmed down, he looked at his version of the tracking (in German), which provided additional information ....

Although the UK's exit from the EU Common Market. a.k.a. Brexit wasn't due to come into effect until 31st December, it transpires that while negotiations were still ongoing, presumably acting on instructions from the German Federal government, DHL were refusing to export anything to UK until the actual terms were agreed !

I was really p!ssed off at the prospect of possibly having to pay 20% VAT after 31st December, especially as my shipment had been wrongfully delayed in this manner.

At this juncture, the German eBay seller stated that he was fed up and wanted to refund my payment. With hindsight, I probably should have agreed, but told him that I still wanted the watch that I'd paid him for in good faith.  With the impending Brexit deadline of 31st December in mind, on Sunday 27th December, the seller twice tried to re-send it using UPS, instead of DHL. Twice it accepted his online payments, but wouldn't allow him to proceed. Seems they were also acting in collusion, by enforcing this temporary illegal shipping embargo. 

Sympathetic to the seller's frustration, I told him to leave it until the New Year - and if neccessary I'd pay the 20% VAT and then try to reclaim it from HM Customs, on the basis that the shipment had been illegally delayed. That said the prospect of the additional hassle grated with me.

On 4th January the German eBay seller sent me a screen print showing DHL's revised shipping charges to UK. Last time it had cost me 14 Euros. He'd already decided to plump for the more expensive 26.90 Euros option, which included 500 Euros insurance cover. I paid him grudgingly.

Without waiting for my further instructions, he sent me a couple of photos of the now relabeled package, including this one of the DHL CN23 Customs form. Note that he may have put GIFT in the category, but he'd also stated a value of 500 Euros.

I started watching the DHL tracking. As it was being sent 'ECONOMY' class, I'd anticipated it would be cleared through UK Customs not by DHL, but their UK partner Parcel Force. So I started looking for tracking updates from them. Aware that the UK Customs tax-free limit for Gifts from outside UK remained unchanged - still a mere £39, I was also anticipating getting royally screwed for 20% VAT and the usual delay of at least a week, thanks to ParcelFarce's legendary inefficiency. 

By some fluke, or cock-up by Parcel Force, the package somehow miraculously slipped through UK Customs without attracting the dreaded 20% VAT.  In fact, they caught me completely by surprise and tried to deliver it last Friday morning, while I was out.  It was finally re-delivered yesterday lunchtime, more than 3 weeks after it had first been shipped from Germany.

So should I be pleased to have finally received my belated Christmas present to myself - henceforth forever to be known as 'the Brexit watch' ? To tell the truth, despite all the hassle, I'm in two minds as to whether to return it for a refund. Whereas I was initially relieved to have got my hands on it, it didn't take very long for disappointment and buyer's remorse to set in. You may remember in my post dated 18th December I'd written:

It's supposed to be 'new and unworn', though that's not entirely borne out by the photos.

It wasn't borne out by the received condition either.

When I opened the presentation box, it didn't look like that. The watch was rattling around loose inside. The seller hadn't put any protection around the watch at all. He'd merely closed the lid, relying on the instruction manual and warranty booklet, between the watch and the lid to hold it in place. They didn't. 

From the DNA evidence present and a few minor scratches and scuffs, the watch has clearly been worn quite a bit in the past (if not for the last 20 years - I'd surmise the 10 before that). The bracelet has been sized for a 7" wrist. There are 13 links on one side and only 11 on the other, meaning that 4 of the original complement of 28 have been removed. They were not supplied. The watch will fit my 7½" wrist by dint of the inbuilt spring-loaded clasp extender - but if you've ever tried using one, you'll know that it's bloody uncomfortable. 

There is a light scratch about 6mm long on the crystal, running vertically from above the 25 minute mark. There is a nasty scratch on the back of the watch, presumably made by some clumsly watchmaker, attempting to unscrew the case-back without the proper tool. Note the DNA evidence visible in these two close-up shots:

Is it at least fair to good inside?  

And is it a tetradecagon back?  It looks like you might have the tool to open it.

(one of the most enjoyable reads recently was your endevours in designing and getting built such a tool.)

I've no idea Rob.  Other than giving it a quick wipe and taking those few photos I'd deliberately done nothing with it, in the event I might be returning it to the seller for a refund - on the basis that it was significantly not as described. I did consider opening a case in eBay's Resolution Center to initiate the process, but decided to first give the seller an opportunity to comment and / or possibly make amends. To my surprise, he openly admitted the watch was not new - stating he'd purchased it secondhand in 2003. The reason it was allegedly unworn (and had 'remained in a display cabinet for 20 years') was that the bracelet was too small to fit his wrist !! 

In the same eBay message, without duress, he gave me two options: Return it for a full refund (which as I'd paid by bank transfer, might be tricky to enforce), or accept a partial refund of 150 Euros against my purchase price. Having already endured more than enough hassle with this purchase, I plumped for the latter easier option. The refund duly arrived in my bank account yesterday afternoon.

As it happens, I had also been keeping something in reserve 'up my sleeve'. 

You may remember from the Cartier Ferrari Formula 'Red Mist' thread, when in October last year, I'd purchased the sister model F6104884 rather more cheaply ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174460070684

Originally posted by myself on October 14, 2020 at 4:38 PM:

It came supplied with 4 bracelet adjustment links that had been removed. I replaced two of them to get a comfortable fit on my 7½" wrist ....

Guess where those two remaining bracelet links will be headed later today.

Belated Edit: Subsequently added into the F6104882's bracelet: