Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at February 3, 2018 at 5:43 AM

The seller was a bit tardy posting it. He didn't send me the shipping advice until Tuesday and it arrived on Thursday. The strap fitted turned out to be the most horrible cheap and nasty plastic thing you could imagine and has already been consigned to the rubbish bin. The crystal is quite badly scratched, but the dial and hands underneath appear to be pristine and everything works, although the crown is very stiff to turn. As soon as I've finished this post, I'm going to strip and clean it.

So why was I so excited about this particular watch, given its poor cosmetic condition ? Well it's yet another previously unseen (and very subtle) variant of the Orient / Racer J39  WATER RESIST 10 BAR dial - and check out the case-back model number: J39725-70. If that doesn't ring any bells, run a search on the forum or google images and you'll see why. 

Rather than clutter up this thread with what is basically just another strip, clean and rebuild (with a couple of extra horrors chucked in for good measure), I've written that up in another separate topic in The Workshop section.

The dial part number is almost exactly what I would have expected to find in a Racer branded version of a J39725-70 - J392725R-027.

I finished it off this morning, by fitting a 20mm 'Feiko' stainless bracelet - for want of anything more suitable. Besides, apart from being in keeping with the rest of the watch (a cheap beater), it now matches my other one. 

Here's a slightly different wrist shot to the one I posted in the WRUW thread this morning.

If you had bothered to google images on J39725-70, no doubt you'd have found a few photos of my Orient branded version, which I've owned for a good many years.

Since November 2011, in fact.  In all that time, these two Orient and Racer branded versions are the only two examples of this particular J39 case model number I've ever seen - so they're both comparatively rare. The Racer version is obviously much plainer than the Orient 'Panda' dial. Even the TEAM COLLECTION script is printed in black (rather than red). Yet they share the same case number - J39725-70, rather than J39710-70, which I'd normally associate with the Racer branded version. That said, it's not the first time that Orient and Racer versions of a J39 have shared a case-back model number - the umpteen dial colour variants of the J39908-70 being the classic case in point. Whereas I have rightfully accused Orient Watch Co. of not being entirely consistent in their allocation of case model numbers in the past, there is actually some logic in this instance. Although clearly identical watch cases, the Racer J39710-70 is silver anodized (or more likely painted) - as indeed are the Puma Y19001-70 and Y19301-70 equivalents. Both the Orient and Racer J39725-70 cases are plain (uncoated) stainless steel, with a lightly polished upper surface and brushed sides.

Anorak level detail, Moi ?  Reminds me of my boyhood train-spotting days. 

Seiko7A38 at January 29, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Got a bit of a shock - they've completely re-vamped it since I last looked at it.

So I went hunting for their 'Historic' section. Found the tab: http://racer-relojes.com/wordpress/?page_id=124

Guess what's not too far down that page ? 

It's the Racer J39027-70 - presumably the image is from a catalogue cover. (I've used Google to translate the original Spanish text).

It's shown on a tan 'croco' strap, same as the 7A38 / 7T32 photoshopped image was. I prefer the red-stitched black leather I've fitted.

I make no apologies for the partial quote from the top of page 3. 

You'll see the reason why, presently.  Hard to believe it's been 4 years. 

Racer's website has gone through a few more iterations since then, including a new (re-directed) URL for the Historia section: http://racer-relojes.com/cms/historia

But the content remains pretty much the same, including that catalogue cover image of the J39027-70. 

Now whereas I was perfectly content with my J39027-70, I'm always on the lookout for better (ideally NOS) examples of Orient and RACER J39's, particularly if the price is right. Guess what popped up in my eBay saved favourite search email notifications a week ago today ? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132521826254

Yup - a NOS J39027-70 on the original Orient 'mock croc' leather strap. Needless to say I didn't hesitate to hit the Buy-it-Now button; indeed I was so quick that I didn't even take a screen print (or bother checking all the photos) before doing so - just in case someone else had seen it and beat me to it.

Later in the afternoon, I noticed the Spanish seller was listing lots more NOS watches. So I sent him a message asking if he had any more RACER J39's he was planning to list. He replied that he did have - a J39024-50. I wrote back asking him which of the 3 dial colour variants it was (as I didn't need nor particularly wanted another NOS 'Panda' version). He sent me just this one photo:

Needless to say, I bought that one too (off eBay).  I was a little too late to get him to combine shipment, because he'd already posted the J39027-70. That arrived yesterday. I was waiting impatiently this morning for the postman to deliver the J39024-50, but nothing came.  Hopefully it'll turn up tomorow morning.

Other than taking the obligatory wrist shot, which I'll do at some point over this weekend, there's not a lot to be gained by my taking a load more photos of the J39027-70; the seller's dozen listing images are more than adequate. There was however one subtle difference in what I received - although none is shown in his last photo, the watch did come with a case-back protection sticker attached.

Note that the price is also shown in Spanish Pesetas (28,995 Ptas). I thought this a little odd at first, because Spain had joined the EEC in January 1986, but checking online reveals they didn't actually completely phase out the Peseta in favour of the Euro until 2002.

The RACER J39024-50 arrived yesterday. Unlike the J39027-70, it came with a cardboard hang tag attached.

Inside were similar self-adhesive paper labels, again showing the price in Euros and Pesetas. However, unlike the previous one, the lower label made more sense. Still not sure of the significance of '1726' (or SIN-REF), but this one included most of the model number - J39024. 

I haven't had time to take any more photos of the J39024-50, so here's the wrist shot I posted in the WRUW thread yesterday ....

and a slightly different one of the J39027-70, to that I posted earlier this morning.

I'm not about to start another 'variations on a J39 theme' thread. There are already enough such topics in this forum section. But I've just encountered another variant.

Over the last nearly 5 years of searching, I assumed I'd seen all the RACER branded dial colour variants of J39024-50 produced by Orient. There's the most commonly found 'Panda'; the all-black dial (in my previous post) and the rarer 'Reverse Panda' (per 'Tony from Móstoles' example) which has eluded me so far. 

How about an all White dial ? 

NOS - already on the way to me from my usual source. 

The RACER presentation box it comes in isn't technically period correct ('JAPAN' was added to their logo slightly later), but I'm not complaining. 

The postman delivered the above 'NOS' RACER J39024-50 earlier this morning. This one is in better condition than the previous.  Just a little dusty, with no scratches, apart from a light slipped tool mark on the case-back. As I'd written previously, the 'JAPAN' box isn't quite period correct - and it's pretty obvious, from the slight 'hump' in the 6 o'clock side of the strap, that the watch has spent most of its shelf life with that section of the strap folded back behind it, rather than lying flat in that (or any other) box.

This one's evidently come from a different source to the previous two, because the writing inside the paper hang tag is different and there's no barcode label.

I've rattled off a couple of quick 'as received' photos:

Here's the newest arrival alongside the one I received last month:

And a slightly different wrist shot to the one I posted in the WRUW thread earlier.

Seiko7A38 at April 23, 2017 at 9:16 AM

Seiko7A38 at November 23, 2014 at 7:40 AM

I messaged the seller twice (in Spanish) but received no reply. So I asked David's help again - in the hope that if he could buy this one on my behalf as well, he could consolidate their shipment. Days and weeks passed. Eventually the seller responded. He would only sell it in a face-to-face transaction for cash. He wouldn't even post it within Spain !!  The seller 'Tony' is in Mostoles, a suburb of Madrid; David lives in the Valencia area, some 350Kms away. So sadly, we had to admit defeat on this one. 

To add insult to injury, after his Segundomano listing expired, Tony listed it on Milanuncios.com (using only one photo - upside down):

http://www.milanuncios.com/relojes/dos-relojes-racer-y-seiko-142807838.htm

I expect there will be others - indeed other dial colour variations of these two versions of J39024-50.

Just so frustrating to let this one slip through my fingers, because of a narrow-minded parochial seller. 

Idly browsing the Spanish free classifieds site Milanuncios.com this lunchtime, not really expecting to find anything, I came across a new-ish listing for a reverse panda dialed Racer J39024-50 - but one which also looked horribly familiar. 

http://www.milanuncios.com/relojes-hombre/reloj-racer-con-correa-de-piel-228967070.htm

Yup it's my old friend Tony from Móstoles, who's still posting photos of the watch upside down (probably taken at the same time as the previous pairing with the Seiko 5) and still hasn't managed to sell it well over two years later. 

With apologies for the 'double quote' (something I usually actively discourage). 

and a partial one liner from my penultimate post:

and the rarer 'Reverse Panda' .... which has eluded me so far.

Hard to believe it's been 3½ years since I first spotted 'Tony from Móstoles' advert for his J39024-50 on Secundomano.es. After umpteen upside-down re-listings on Milanuncios.com, it finally disappeared into the ether. Presumably sold. I'd almost given up hope of finding another one.

So you can imagine how pleased I was to receive an email yesterday evening, from my usual source, with these 3 photos attached. 

Again 'NOS' - and on it's way to me from Spain as I type this. 

That 'Reverse Panda' RACER Orient J39024-50 arrived in this morning's post.  Whereas I'm really chuffed to have finally filled that void in my collection, I'm a little disappointed in its received condition. Some 'NOS' watches lie gathering dust on a shelf in a jeweller's shop stock room for years on end. I guess others, like this one, may have been touted around dealer's trade stalls, chucked in and out of boxes with other assorted watches, because for a 'new' watch it's picked up numerous light scratches and scuffs. 

Anyway, I've just rattled off a few very quick 'as received' photos:

It really is an attractive dial - more so, I think than the 'Panda' version. Like that one, the batons aren't lumed, but silver painted, outlined in gold.

The slightly tattier hang tag on this J39024-50 indicates it came from another different store. Once again, the price is shown in both Euros and Pesetas.

The black leather 'double jonc' strap is the same as the one on my original NOS Panda dialed version and stamped with the same Orient part number EU0685. 

Here's a slightly different wrist shot to that which I just posted in the WRUW thread.

Apart from the overall light scuffing to the sides of watch case and bezel, there's an annoying little scratch on the crystal, just above the 8 o'clock baton - which is more visible in this wrist shot. So at some point, I'll probably swap the watch case for that of my second 'NOS' Panda version, which IIRC is in better condition.

Seiko7A38 at April 23, 2017 at 8:56 AM

Jose's parcel containing the Racer J39907-50 arrived earlier this week, with the hands still in the same position (as his photo) and the date still showing SAT / 20. Initially it appeared to be as dead as a dodo, but with a fresh battery fitted, I reset the chronograph hands and confirmed they functioned correctly. I noticed the constant seconds hand was twitching slightly, so I wound on the the hands and quickset the day / date. It started running, so this morning I took a wrist shot and posted it in the WRUW thread.

Two hours later, it had ground to a halt again, so clearly needs a strip, clean and re-lube. You can't win 'em all. 

Nor, more frustratingly, can you always catch them all - no matter how clever you are at International Logistics. 

This afternoon, I got a stark and frankly annoying reminder of that fact ....

One year on - and then some, that RACER J39907-50 is still running, but only sporadically. It's joined an ever growing list of 'round-tuit' jobs. Though since yesterday, it has dropped down the order of priorities.

Reason ?  I've got a new J39907-50 (meaning NOS) coming to replace it. 

.... Courtesy of my ever-willing Spanish RACER detective / distributor. 

I'd intended to write this post yesterday, but the forum went down mid-afternoon.

The postman delivered the parcel containing the RACER J39907-50 about 10:00am. As Victor had already pre-warned me, it needed a new battery fitting. Quite honestly, with any NOS watches, I'd rather receive them like this, still with a pristine unmarked case-back, than have someone else ruin it, for the sake of fitting a cheap or frequently incorrect size battery. As you can see in the shot below, the bezel has picked up a few light swirlies and the strap is a little scuffed. If that Oxblood coloured 'double jonc' strap looks familiar, it's almost identical to the one that came on my first NOS Racer J39908-70 nearly 5 years ago. Except this one is only 18mm wide instead of 19mm. It's stamped with Orient Watch Co. Ltd., in an identical manner, but this one has the part number EU0270 rather than EU0284.

Oh, Yes - same cardboard consistency too.  The paper hang tag label on this one doesn't tell you much - the price is only marked in Spanish Pesetas.

Here's a slightly different wrist shot to the one I posted in the WRUW thread:

I'm not sure I should even admit to this ....

But I've got another blingy NOS RACER J39907-50 incoming. 

Exactly the same as my last one. Same usual source as before, but as part of a 2 watch 'job lot' package deal. It seems my Spanish supplier has been reaching out to other dealers, in his search for J39's on my behalf. Last Monday, he sent me this rather poor camera phone photo - obviously taken by somebody else.

I wasn't really keen on buying another J39907-50 (NOS or otherwise), but I was most certainly interested in the watch on the left. Upside down or not, I instantly recognised it as another previously unseen variant of J39725-70. Initially I told him I was only interested in the watch on the left, but it seems they came as a pair.

He received them on Friday and sent me some better photos:

Apologies for the mis-orientation of a couple of them. Blame PhotoBucket ! 

Same case model as my white-dialed 'beater' at the top of this page, but with a black dial and presumably the original Orient bracelet (per the clasp logo).

Here's a few Q&D as received photos of my NOS RACER J39725-70. 

Subtitled: From one extreme to the other (bottom of the barrel) ....

I suppose I should mention this battered non-running RACER branded Orient J39, which came up in my saved search notifications yesterday evening. It's been listed by a Spanish eBay seller with a 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 99.99 Euros (and currently no option to make a much lower offer). Althought he doesn't actually cite the model number, the case-back shows it to be a J39725-70, which once would have looked like the NOS example in my previous posts. The seller also fails to mention that it's been fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273507155506

Not working

Day date changes correctly

Clean mechanism

The case, cristal and strap are in bad conditions

Sold as for spares or restore

I don't accept returns.

If I wasn't fortunate enough to already own a mint NOS example, I might once have jumped at the opportunity of buying a tired piece of junk like this, just to add another rare variant of Orient / Racer J39 to my collection. Perhaps I'm just getting picky in my old age.  But even if I was desperate, I wouldn't even consider paying half the price this deluded would-be seller is asking for it.

I've just bought another NOS RACER J39027-70 from my usual Spanish supplier. Here's the photos he emailed me, a week or so ago, when he first offered it to me.

Although this Breitbling clone is one of my favourite Orient / Racer case designs, my first thoughts were that I really didn't need another. Besides my first restored 'beater', I also already had a NOS example on the correct original 'mock croc' leather strap - see my post higher up the page, dated 9th March 2018. Then there was his asking price - way O.T.T. as far as I was concerned - the paper sticker on the case-back is a clue. So even though I suspected he may well have sourced it with me in mind, as a potential buyer, I just said simply no thank you - and didn't even try to make him a lower offer. I left it at that. Three days later, he emailed me again, asking 'Your best price for this watch?' I gave him my figure (considerably less than his original asking price) and we haggled a bit. I kind of felt obliged to buy it in a way, rather than risk souring our relationship. 

My other reason for my nearly passing on it was the bracelet fitted. To my eyes, apart from not really suiting the watch, it looked distinctly non-original / aftermarket. There are no part number stampings on the underside and the clasp doesn't have RACER embossed on the safety catch, as one might expect. Plus I'd never seen anything vaguely resembling it. I told the seller my thoughts about the bracelet when I initially declined to buy it.

If you've read the saga of my burgundy dialed Breitbling basket case J39026-70 detailed on page 3 of this thread, then you'll know this watch case can come fitted with a two-tone bracelet - Orient p/n GK1075. Plus I also remembered seeing a RACER 7T32 HFA019-70, fitted with another bracelet, listed by a Spanish eBay seller in December last year. Here's a few of the photos from that listing. I couldn't quite make out the part number stamped in the ears of the end pieces, but it might be something like QKG0RT. This watch's bracelet is much closer to what I might expect to find factory fitted to a Breitbling J39.

The parcel containing the J39027-70 arrived this morning. My immediate thoughts had been to remove the 'wrong' bracelet and fit a leather strap. Had I had one in my stock, it probably would have been another of those Meyhofer 'Lanark' straps - in black leather with red stitching, like I'd fitted to my first restored example.

But although I've not changed my mind about it's less than ideal appearance, I'm not so sure, now I have it in my hands, that this bracelet has been retro-fitted. It's a 19mm fitment, not one of these 'one-size-fits-all', with the spring loaded tube, nor has it been ground down to fit the watch's 19mm lug width. I've examined it closely and I can't see any tool marks on the watch's lugs at all, which might indicate previous strap removal. So I'm reserving judgement, for the time being at least.

Pretty it ain't (the bracelet that is). Here's a slightly different wrist shot to the one I've just posted in the WRUW thread.

Apart from my doubts about its originality, the more I looked at that bracelet, the less I liked it. There really was no other word to describe it other than fugly.

So I decided (as I'd hinted in my penultimate post), to replace it with a leather strap - ideally the same Meyhofer 'Lanark' that I'd fitted to my original restored J39027-70.

Unfortunately, when I tried to order one from WatchBandCenter, I discovered they were now out of stock of the 19mm black / red-stiched version. 

http://www.watch-band-center.com/watchstrap-Watch-strap-Lanark-1.html

I didn't surprise me really. I've come to the conclusion that WBC deal in close-outs - and it's rare for them to re-stock after they've sold out. This reminded me that the Meyhofer 'Lanark' strap had been my second choice 5 years ago, when I found another Tissot strap, which I'd have preferred, that they'd already sold out of.

http://www.watch-band-center.com/watchstrap-TissotPR50-replacement-strap.html

But there are other suppliers besides WatchBandCenter and after a little googling, I managed to find a couple of other stockists, the cheaper of which was priced at £40. Still, I always fancied putting a 'Racing' strap on this Racer, so I swallowed hard and bought one. It arrived yesterday. It really is a nice quality strap, no two ways about it. Fitted it this morning and I think it looks the part.

Thing is, when it's on your wrist, you can hardly see the holes - just the odd hair poking through them. 

Here's a side-by-side shot of my three RACER J39027-70's. Left to right: NOS on the original Orient 'Mock Croc' strap; my first restored example on the Meyhofer 'Lanark' and my most recently acquired, now fitted with the Tissot 'Racing' strap.

I'm sure I've written somewhere (if not in this particular thread), that I'd resolved not to buy any more 'junk' Orient (or Racer) J39's in 'the name of research' - not even in an effort to add an example of every single variation produced to my collection. I've just had a bit of a relapse. Well not exactly. I haven't been and bought another parts watch, just one not quite in the best of condition. But, in my defence, it was another slight variation I hadn't seen before, so my excuse is that the adrenelin rush shot straight to my bidding finger.

Those of you who follow my various non-Seiko ramblings in this forum section may remember reading this rather aptly titled thread, which I started in August 2017:

Orient J39 - variations on a theme part # 99 (ones that got away)

After my initial preamble, the first J39 that I bemoaned having missed was a tired Orient J39911-50 with a black dial, that was listed on the Polish site allegro.pl in June of of that year. Despite it being a variant I'd never seen before, I wasn't too upset about missing that particular example, because it had obviously been messed about with. That auction has been archived; the link still works after a fashion, but the photos have all long since disappeared into the ether. I won't bother re-posting any of them here; they can still be viewed in that other thread. Of course, like many of these slightly obscure (dare I use the word 'rare') J39 variants I've never seen another one since. 

I'd sussed some time ago that the Orient J39911-50, Racer J39907-50 and Puma Y19904-50 all used the same all-over gold plated metal skinned resin watch case, with the external molded Tachymeter bezel. I'd only previously seen the Racer and Puma variants with a white dial, but as the Orient came with a black (and blue) dials, it was logical to expect that the other branded versions might also.

Anyway, to cut what is becoming a long story short, I came home from work late on Friday evening last week, fired up my PC and checked my email / saved favourite search notifications and saw this Racer J39907-50 with the black dial. It had been listed by a Spanish eBay seller that afternoon, with no mention of the model number in the title or description and a Buy-it-Now price of 32 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254226854980

Reloj RACER CRONOGRAPH Quartz

Reloj RACER CRONOGRAPH Quartz. Estado usado, reloj revisado por relojería, pila recién puesta, cristal nuevo no original,tapa trasera roscada,incluye tres mini esferas en la esfera principal , tiene una buena maquinaria lleva 15 rubís,indicador de día y fecha a las tres ,cronógrafo, correa de piel, diámetro de la caja 38mm .

Envío carta certificada cualquier duda preguntar.

No realizo envío fuera de la U E.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254226854980

The last line of the seller's description translates as: I do not ship outside of EU. That implied they're willing ship to countries within it, which for the time being at least, the UK still is. There wasn't any international postage set up, so immediately after hitting the Buy-it-Now button I had to request an invoice. The seller was initially reluctant to ship to UK, but after some cajoling, I finally mananaged to persuade them. They sent an invoice on Sunday afternoon and I paid up. The item is now showing as shipped, with a tracking number, so it's safe to assume it's on its way.

Checking the seller's photos it's evidently quite well-worn. Indeed the watch case is typically corroded through to the resin on the 3 o'clock side, right on the swage line. The hour and minute hands are tarnished too. I'm not too worried. Remember I've recently acquired two NOS white-dialed Racer J39907-50's - besides my first, the ex-CashConverters.es example, which coincidentally cost me 32.50 Euros in April 2017 (see halfway down the previous page). So the there's a strong probability that the black dialed movement will end up getting swapped into one of them.

What is it with the Spanish and yellow watch straps ? This Racer, which was listed a fortnight ago was certainly hard to miss ! No mention of the Orient J39xxx-xx model number and heavily over-lit photos made the strap look even brighter. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254232878354

Reloj Racer Team Collection B (PO85693)

Yeah - O.K., so I really didn't need another J39027-70 BreitBling clone, but I have an affinity addiction for these things and simply couldn't resist at the price. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254232878354

My apologies to any readers who may have been following this thread, but I've sorely neglected to add updates for a good few months. I will endeavour to rectify that over the next couple of days. 

I refurbished that last RACER J39027-70 Panda, which I'd acquired in late May - and for want of anything better, fitted another of those Tissot 'Racing' straps.

This was now my 4th example of these attractive Breitbling clones, and I guess I could have taken another (4-way) side-by-shot, like the one I posted higher up the page, back in April, but it would have looked pretty similar. This one wasn't in quite such good cosmetic condition as my others, so I'd initially intended to add it into my 'daily wearer' rotation. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a rather poor timekeeper - randomly losing or stopping altogether. So the movement clearly needed a service.

Having now found a total of four RACER J39027-70's all with the same 'Panda' dial, I had begun to wonder if there was any other dial colour variant. It seems there was at least one more.  Way back in the middle of August, Romanian forum member gogusrl (Andrei) emailed me links to two Racer J39's which he'd found on OLX.ro.

I asked him if he would kindly purchase them on my behalf. (We missed the other). This one, which I immediately recognised as being another variant of J39027-70, wasn't in the best of condition, fitted with a non-original generic stainless bracelet - and had a rather over-optimistic asking price of 500 Lei (RON whatever).

http://www.olx.ro/oferta/ceas-orient-racer-chronograph-IDcHGIy.html#cd64cc07b1

Andrei managed to negotiate the price down to a more reasonable 350 Lei (approx. 78 Euros) and sent me these photos, before re-packing it for shipping on to UK:

As you can see from Andrei's photos, the crystal was badly scratched and the gold plating almost completely worn off the bezel quarter markers. The lume on the dial hour markers (which the 'Panda' version doesn't have) has degraded slightly. But at least when it arrived it all worked. I had originally intended to refurbish the case, but when I came to remove the bracelet, I found that there were no cut-outs in the fixing tubes to access the ends of the spring bars. Which meant I was going to have cut it off with a Dremel. I put it to one side, in disgust - and left it for 4 months. 

Anyway, to cut what is becoming a long story short ....

Eventually, in fact earlier this afternoon, I finally bit the bullet. The most expedient solution was simply to swap the dial and movement into the 'Panda', with a decent case, good crystal and distinctly iffy timekeeping. So that's what I did. Apart from the dial (and hand) colours, to all intents, they're identical. Even their dial part number is the same: J392 027R 029. I finished it off by fitting a 19mm Hadley Roma 'mock croc' strap, instead of the Tissot 'Racing' strap. Thought it suited this combo better.

Here's a slightly different wrist shot to the one I posted in the WRUW thread earlier.