Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at March 31, 2016 at 4:30 AM

It's not often that I take time to look closely at photos of 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1's on eBay, let alone bother uploading the photos to this thread. Many, if not most, are 'battle-scarred' (probably from playing 'mess conkers'), with multiple dings, bent fixed bars and badly worn silver anodized coating. So it makes a refreshing change to see an almost mint example, like this watch which was listed on eBay yesterday lunchtime by a UK seller, with a confident opening bid price of £450.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182072164159

The eBay auction for that mint-ish looking 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 ended at 11:00 this morning, making a strong £696 after 12 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182072164159

Meanwhile, 3 days ago, another UK eBay seller had listed this somewhat lesser example with a wishful Buy-it-Now price of £650.

If you take the trouble to study the photos (which I can't be arsed to upload) and compare them with the previous mint-ish one ....

You'll see that it's in only average condition, with all the usual minor dings and one that would normally sell for around £450.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152041065235

Here is a rare Seiko gen 1 issue pilots chrono, if your looking at this you know exactly what it is. 

Comes on a green nato strap with black metal work, had a new battery fitted on sat 2nd with garantee card to come with. 

All chrono functions work and align as should, overall a good condition wtch. It is worn and has a few marks to show it's 27 year age but this is a military issue watch that has most likely been worn in anger. 

I'm not in a rush to sell so won't accept silly offers, this watch will only increase in value now. 

Postage is a little higher because I only send my watches, signed for, tracked and insured. 

Any questions please feel free to ask. 

Please only buy if your UK based, if overseas please contact me BEFORE bidding so we can discuss. 

Regards, 

Edit, the hands aren't set correctly. They do reset and have now been, the watch will come with the 1 year battery garantee card on postage.

Here's another “Fully working” 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 that was listed on eBay UK this afternoon with a £0.99 opening bid price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252349748454

A genuine issued 1989 model RAF pilots or navigators watch.

Had full Seiko service in December 2011, certificate with corresponding serial number supplied proving authenticity.

Watch case, dial, sub dial hands and second counter hands all in great condition, hour and minute hands have lost some lume but adds to character of watch. Crystal replaced in 2011 by Seiko, and still great, with a very small mark between 5 and 6. Keeps excellent time.

Chrono works as it should, with all hands re-aligning as they should.

Watch supplied on a genuine strap and bund as would have been at point of issue. This is also in good condition, clean and ready to wear.

Will be well packed for postage. Advertised elsewhere so reserve right to end auction early.

The above eBay auction for a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen.1 ended a few moments ago, with bidding jumping from £371 to a whopping £640 after 31 bids, in the final 15 seconds of the auction, as the snipers joined the action.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252349748454

Another 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1, fitted with a non-original 'James Bond' NATO was listed on eBay yesterday afternoon by a UK seller.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262393621564

Owned for 25 years but not worn much now as I have other watches, hence sale. As issued to RAF and Fleet Air Arm aircrew during 1980's . Considered to be the best aircrew chronograph and superior to Seiko Mark 2 and later watches. NATO James Bond style strap. This watch has the famous 7a28 Seiko movement, the worlds first analog Quartz movement chrono which makes it very collectable.

Similar watch for sale on Corr Vintage watches Internet site at £895. You can check site.

Indeed you can: http://www.corrvintagewatches.com/

As you can also check ATG Vintage Watches Store, Chronomaster and many other dealer's websites.

Then again, if you want to keep abreast of current selling prices, you could carry on following this thread. 

The above eBay listing for a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 was scheduled to end tomorrow afternoon @ approx 14:21 BST ....

But checking my eBay watching page I noticed the seller ended the listing early, yesterday morning @ approx. 09:42 BST:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262393621564

I somehow doubt that it was 'lost or broken', per the reason stated. More likely the seller succumbed to an offer outside eBay. 

Seiko7A38 at April 6, 2016 at 5:30 PM

Meanwhile, 3 days ago, another UK eBay seller had listed this somewhat lesser example with a wishful Buy-it-Now price of £650.

If you take the trouble to study the photos (which I can't be arsed to upload) and compare them with the previous mint-ish one ....

You'll see that it's in only average condition, with all the usual minor dings and one that would normally sell for around £450.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152041065235

Despite having up to 30 watchers at one point, not surprisingly, that lesser example of a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 remains unsold.

The would-be seller has re-listed it a couple of times, with the Buy-it-Now price gradually reducing - £625 and £600 (twice).

Here's the latest re-listing as of this morning, the seller's 'pie-in-the-sky' asking price further reduced to £560.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152066021751

I guess he'll get there in the end. 

Another 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 was listed by a UK eBay seller a couple of days ago (as a 10-day auction listing), with an opening bid price of £1 and no reserve. Bidding is currently at £231.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141966785364

This auction is for my Seiko Gen 1 RAF Chronograph. The watch is in full working order and was serviced about 18months ago. Cosmetically it is in good condition, please refer to photographs for full details of the condition.

If you would like to see the full res copies let me know.

I will include the panatime NATO strap you see in the photos. These are the best Nato straps I've found so far, had to buy from US. 

Please note the following conditions for the auction:

- I will only post to approved PayPal addresses in the UK.

- I will only sell via Ebay.

- Please do not bid if you have less that 10 positive ratings and have not been an active ebay member for at least 6 months.

- You are bidding to buy, not to kick the tyres or try it on for size. I am selling my personal stuff in good faith so unless the item is not as described I will not accept returns. For information I record and document all aspects of the packaging prior to sending an item to avoid any 'confusion' that may occur downstream.

Apologies to genuine buyers for the above, there seem to be a lot of chancers out there nowadays.

The same of course equally applies to eBay sellers. 

One for the not so discerning buyer: here's a 'car boot find' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 that was listed on eBay earlier this morning.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282019820584

Recent car boot buy Seiko 1st Gen watch. The watch is working but has scratches about the face.....

Now the not so good news!... The NATO stock number has been defaced on back plate, there was a sweethearts name on it I am lead to believe. But it still is what it is and a very collectable watch and quite rare and sort after....maybe not for the serious watch nut but it is one!!!

Seiko7A38 at April 24, 2016 at 7:24 AM

Another 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 was listed by a UK eBay seller a couple of days ago (as a 10-day auction listing), with an opening bid price of £1 and no reserve. Bidding is currently at £231.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141966785364

That UK eBay auction for a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 ended a couple of minutes ago. There was no last minute snipe-fest.

It sold for £515.86 (the price it had reached earlier this afternoon) after 22 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141966785364

Seiko7A38 at April 24, 2016 at 7:04 AM

Seiko7A38 at April 6, 2016 at 5:30 PM

Meanwhile, 3 days ago, another UK eBay seller had listed this somewhat lesser example with a wishful Buy-it-Now price of £650.

If you take the trouble to study the photos (which I can't be arsed to upload) and compare them with the previous mint-ish one ....

You'll see that it's in only average condition, with all the usual minor dings and one that would normally sell for around £450.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152041065235

Despite having up to 30 watchers at one point, not surprisingly, that lesser example of a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 remains unsold.

The would-be seller has re-listed it a couple of times, with the Buy-it-Now price gradually reducing - £625 and £600 (twice).

Here's the latest re-listing as of this morning, the seller's 'pie-in-the-sky' asking price further reduced to £560.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152066021751

I guess he'll get there in the end. 

Or perhaps not. Certainly not this time around.

That latest re-listing with the further reduced Buy-it-Now price of £560 ended earlier this morning - unsold once again.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152066021751

When I'd looked at it a couple of days ago there were more than 40 people watching the listing this time.

Remember this line of the would-be seller's description ?

I'm not in a rush to sell so won't accept silly offers, this watch will only increase in value now.

Out of curiosity, I checked Goofbid's eBay Best Offer History tool to see if he'd received any offers - 'silly' or otherwise.

There were only two, both sensible; both rejected - the higher one was for £500. 

Seiko7A38 at April 28, 2016 at 5:30 AM

One for the not so discerning buyer: here's a 'car boot find' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 that was listed on eBay earlier this morning.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282019820584

Recent car boot buy Seiko 1st Gen watch. The watch is working but has scratches about the face.....

Now the not so good news!... The NATO stock number has been defaced on back plate, there was a sweethearts name on it I am lead to believe. But it still is what it is and a very collectable watch and quite rare and sort after....maybe not for the serious watch nut but it is one!!!

Bidding on that 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 with the defaced case-back was certainly a rather more restrained affair than usual. For the first couple of days there was only one bidder at the £55 opening bid price. After a week it had still only been bid to £110. Yesterday evening, further bidding activity had pushed it over the £200 mark and this morning when I looked again, it had reached £240.

The auction ended a few moments ago, with it finally making £265 after 25 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282019820584

Meanwhile, dragging out my oft-used stock phrase once more ....

At the risk of my beginning to sound like an old worn-out record ....

Here's yet another speculatively stupidly over-priced 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 that was listed on eBay UK earlier this week.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152081126099

Words in blue below plagiarised from a website but perfectly describes this watch. 1984 issue so one of the first! Comes with new battery, new sapphire glass and black NATO strap exactly as seen in the photos. The watch is used of course but in very good condition and works perfectly.

Good condition Seiko Royal Navy Helicopter Pilot’s watch. Just serviced with a new battery and nato strap. Some marks to the case from normal military use. Due to being a military issue, has usual marks on it as one would expect. It is a very desirable and highly collectible watch due to the fact that it is a practical and functional watch and the choice of the British Armed Forces for use with the helicopter pilots. Another ting adding to the collectability is the rarity of the watch, there were issued in no doubt in many numbers but not many survived life outside the armed forces where servicemen were required to give watches back once retired from the forces, on some occasions they could buy them if they wanted to keep them but not many servicemen took up this option. Genuine military issue item for the UK armed forces. If it is good enough for them, it is certainly good enough for everyday use. These are getting increasingly harder to find and as a result the prices are climbing. It is made in Japan with Japanese made quartz movement. It has a sandblasted all stainless steel case with fixed bars for operational security reasons. The dial is mat black with subsidiary seconds at the 6 position, the thirty minute elapsed timer at 9 and the 1/10th second elapsed timer at the 3 position. When the chronograph is activated, the 10th second timer moves straight into action in a very fast rotation. The inner bezel has sixty second markings, and the chronograph sixty second recorder is the sweep hand. This is comfortable to wear, and an excellent watch. Width is 38 mm excluding crown and 40 mm including crown and pushers. Lug to lug is 43 mm and thickness is 9 mm.

In case readers hadn't figured out where the above part of the description was 'plagiarised' from (read copied verbatim) ....

including the typo's 'ting', 'mat' and 'there' (instead of they),  it was from here:

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/watches/military-watches/seiko-generation-1-rn-helicopter-pilots-watch-military-issue/vmw-169/

For purists among potential bidders there may be a cause for concern, regarding the watch's originality, viz. new sapphire glass.

Look carefully at the seller's third photo:

Not the sapphire glass per se, but that the crystal appears to be missing its black nylon gasket. So has it been glued in instead ? 

For comparison, here's a photo from that eBay listing which ended on 6th April (selling for £696), which clearly shows the gasket:

Out of curiosity, I messaged the seller, pointing out the apparent lack of a crystal gasket in his photos - and asked the question:

Had the replacement sapphire crystal been glued in ? His reply was, shall we say a little bit vague ....

But let's talk specifics. The original crystal in a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1, Seiko p/n 300WF0GN00 measures 30.0mm Ø x 1.5mm thick.

The Seiko crystal is obsolete and NLA, but if you were going to replace it with one of the many available generic mineral glasses and re-using the original crystal gasket, you'd choose one of exactly the same dimensions. If however, you elected to fit it without the nylon gasket (possibly because you'd rodgered it while attempting to refit the new crystal), you'd need to go up a few sizes, to compensate for the thickness of the gasket - say maybe to 30.5mm Ø (to allow for a small fillet of cement), or possibly a maximum of 30.7mm Ø.

So if the seller bought (a) new glass (himself), as he wrote in his reply, you'd expect he'd remember the size issue. 

Incidentally, although the seller 2cvwyllys shows a (67) 100%  feedback rating, he hasn't sold anything in the last 12 months.

If you check his feedback as a seller (in the previous 12 months) there are a couple of strongly worded negative feedbacks.

Caveat Emptor, as always, Gentlemen. 

I note that the seller has just reduced his reserve price (a second time). 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=152081126099

That seemed to have piqued the interest of a novice bidder l***9 (with a feedback of 3), who'd made most of the recent running, who then preceded to bid it up to meet the new lower reserve. By yesterday lunchime it was at £500 after 26 bids, with the reserve price met and the seller's original 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of £895 no longer an option.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152081126099

The position remains the same this morning. Presumably connected with the removal of the Buy-it-Now option, eBay no longer displays the number of watchers, but IIRC it was around 55 yesterday, so regardless of the crystal gasket issue there's still plenty of interest.

Funnily enough, yesterday evening, I received a message from the current high bidder, through the Webs contact form, expressing his concern about the crystal gasket issue. He'd read my preceding posts after he'd bid it up to meet the reserve. One thing he pointed out (that I'd failed to mention previously) is that in the seller's 4th photo, posed in a helicopter cockpit, the watch (and presuming this photo is actually an older 'library image' of the same watch - I'm not convinced), at that time it still had a crystal gasket fitted. 

Strangely enough, within a matter of minutes, I also received another message from the eBay seller, stating how he proposed to 'make good' the crystal / gasket issue. Quite frankly, I personally don't consider it an acceptable solution - I see it as him looking for an easy way out. Nor, in the circumstances, do I think it is my place to act as 'messenger boy' for the seller. He needs to amend his description to reflect the problem, so that the other 55 (or however many it is now) watchers and other potential bidders are also aware of it.

Seiko7A38 at May 11, 2016 at 2:45 AM

That seemed to have piqued the interest of a novice bidder l***9 (with a feedback of 3), who'd made most of the recent running, who then preceded to bid it up to meet the new lower reserve. By yesterday lunchime it was at £500 after 26 bids, with the reserve price met and the seller's original 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of £895 no longer an option.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152081126099

The position remains the same this morning. Presumably connected with the removal of the Buy-it-Now option, eBay no longer displays the number of watchers, but IIRC it was around 55 yesterday, so regardless of the crystal gasket issue there's still plenty of interest.

Funnily enough, yesterday evening, I received a message from the current high bidder, through the Webs contact form, expressing his concern about the crystal gasket issue. He'd read my preceding posts after he'd bid it up to meet the reserve. One thing he pointed out (that I'd failed to mention previously) is that in the seller's 4th photo, posed in a helicopter cockpit, the watch (and presuming this photo is actually an older 'library image' of the same watch - I'm not convinced), at that time it still had a crystal gasket fitted. 

Strangely enough, within a matter of minutes, I also received another message from the eBay seller, stating how he proposed to 'make good' the crystal / gasket issue. Quite frankly, I personally don't consider it an acceptable solution - I see it as him looking for an easy way out. Nor, in the circumstances, do I think it is my place to act as 'messenger boy' for the seller. He needs to amend his description to reflect the problem, so that the other 55 (or however many it is now) watchers and other potential bidders are also aware of it.

So the story ended with the seller deciding to end the listing. He seems to be very angry with his jeweler who replaced the crystal on the watch. He said he will relist it again. 

Dylan. Looks like you beat me to the punchline. 

In future, please don't quote my previous post as you've just done - it's completely unnecessary and a waste of bandwidth.

Instead of using the 'Quote & Reply' option, use the '+Post Reply' buttons at the top and bottom of the page. See this thread.

I wasn't going to bother mentioning it (because I didn't see it as an acceptable solution), but what the seller was proposing to do was to supply a new replacement crystal and gasket (presumably free of charge) to the winning bidder. Sourced from here on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281954178370

So rectifying the (lack of) crystal gasket issue would be left to the buyer. But seeing that the watch had so far struggled to meet the £500 reserve - and had done so mostly thanks to the efforts of a novice bidder (Dylan), who at one point was considering retracting his bids, the seller exercised his other option and pulled the listing.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152081126099

Hopefully, next time, the seller finds himself a competent watchmaker capable of fitting the replacement crystal with the new gasket.

The most recent re-listing by would-be UK eBay seller ukgar_h8gyqxufw ended about 10 minutes ago, once again with the watch going unsold - despite his having further reduced the Buy-it-Now price from £560 to £520.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152078296728

As yet, Goofbid's eBay Best Offer History tool doesn't show any offers were made against this re-listing, so the seller probably would have done well to have accepted that offer of £500 against the previous re-listing. But then he's not in any rush to sell. 

Edit: Re-listed again for the 4th time, for another 10 days, later this afternoon - with the Buy-it-Now price further reduced to £500.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152090465360

Meanwhile, here's another 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 that was listed on eBay a couple of days ago.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162066669942

Seiko Gen 1 RAF MoD Pilot Navigator Chronograph Watch Excellent Condition. First Year of Issue - 1984. With Grey Nato Strap. The embossed markings are 6645-99 7683056 1205/84. Works perfectly - all functions and timing. Some marks on casing consistent with age and upper bar is slightly bent - see picture. The glass has been replaced. Looks excellent from normal viewing distance. I am selling as we can't afford to keep. Will be sent by insured and registered post.