Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

O.K. so they're not my cuppa tea; I'll never understand the attraction myself, but there are plenty of other collectors out there, of both Seiko and 'military' watches who are prepared to pay £400-£500 (sometimes upwards) for beaten up examples of 7A28 RAF Gen 1's.

Here are a couple of typical current listings on eBay UK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130937394269

HI THIS IS A GENUINE ORIGINAL ISSUE RAF/RN AIRCREW WATCH. SEIKO MADE OF STAINLESS STEEL & WATER RESISTANT. NUMBERS ON THE BACK AS FOLLOWS:

7A28-7120 

6645-99 

7683056 

1816/84 

480369

RECENTLY TOOK THE WATCH TO A JEWELERS WHO REPLACED THE BATTERY AND GAVE THE WATCH A THOROUGH CHECK. HE PRONOUNCED IT IN EXCELLENT WORKING ORDER! ALL 3 BUTTONS WORK AS ADVERTISED WITH SPLIT LAP TIMER FUNCTIONS ETC. HOWEVER THE MINUTE COUNTER (SMALL DIAL IN THE 9 O'CLOCK POSITION) FOR THE STOP WATCH FUNCTION HAS PROVEN TO BE TEMPREMENTAL - SOMETIMES IN STOP WATCH MODE THE COUNTER DOES NOT COUNT THE MINUTES - SOMETIMES IT DOES! WATCH IS IN OVERALL GOOD CONDITION WITH GOOD CONDITION STAINLESS STEEL WITH LIGHT SCRATCHES AND VERY LIGHT SCRATCHES ON THE WATCH FACE. WATCH KEEPS NEAR PERFECT TIME AND ALMOST NEVER NEEDS ADJUSTMENT. I WILL USE SPECIAL DELIVERY IN THE UK AND TRACKED SERVICE TO SEND OVERSEAS.

That one ended 24 hours later @ £442 after 13 bids. The auction received 666 views over the 10-day listing period.

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161057825009

This auction is for my Seiko Gen.1 military chronograph from 1986. I bought this watch a couple of years ago following a full service & glass replacement by Seiko (receipt will be included in sale). I always liked the look of this watch but have decided it is too nice to just keep in a drawer & to risky to wear daily, hence the sale.

The watch is in very good condition for its age with only minor scratches around the bezel & on the reverse. These watches have quite often seen a hard life & many look a bit worse for wear these days. Some people are of the opinion that signs of a hard life add to the character & authenticity but that is down to personal taste. The glass has a couple of very light scratches & one slightly deeper scratch, all of which I would guess could be removed via polishing.

I will also include a used grey NATO strap with satin loops & buckle & a brand new black NATO strap with satin black metalwork. Both recently purchased from TSS (The Strap Shop). 

Here is a little potted history/description of these watches for the uninitiated: (Link to Ned Frederik's web page rather than quoting text)

So what do you think about this NOS condition example, listed earlier today with a cool £975 price tag ? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261241501926

Maker: Seiko

Model: 7120 Gen 1 RAF

Movement: Cal 7A28

Case: Stainless Steel

Case Diameter: 36.5mm without Crown

Crown: Original

Crystal: Original

Dial: Original

Hands: Original

Strap Fitting: 20mm Fixed Bars

This watch with issue marks for 1989 appears to be unused and still has the original plastic protector on the case back.

A new power cell was fitted 4 weeks ago and it has been rigorously tested, all functions work correctly.

Please study the images carefully as they are form of the description.

Just quickly scanning through the eBay 'Craziest Prices' thread, this was the only mention I could find of a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 ....

offered by Cardiff-based profiteering eBay re-seller Kineticsinc2012 in November last year, where I wrote on page 5 at the time:

Well 'Superb' or 'Real Minters' these three 7A28's listed this earlier this evening (all by the same UK seller) may well be, but .... 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221153227236

SEIKO RAF Issued Gen 1 Chronograph 7A28-7120 Superb Condition! SPR047

We've all see plenty of 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1's going for £500, but isn't £799 pushing it - even for the most ardent military buff ? 

Unfortunately the listing has long since dropped off eBay history and I don't appear to have recorded the price it subsequently sold for.

There was a similarly themed thread started on TZ-UK a few months ago: Price-guide-for-a-first-generation-Seiko-RAF-Chrono

which yields these couple of eBay auction results from March this year:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221200359790 (Private Listing; 3 days duration, received 358 views).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281076507342 (Normal listing, but images now lost, 10 days duration, received 1234 views).

Here are a few more recently completed auctions that I've picked up from searching eBay history, to help get the ball rolling:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171017608578

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121096209627

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130917705220

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200935896782

I suppose now I've started this thread, I ought to keep it updated with a few sales results, for the time being, at least. 

Two eBay listings for 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1's that I'd mentioned in my first two posts ended recently.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161057825009

That one's listing had gone through a number of revisions, finally selling for a reduced Buy-it-Now price of £450 late last night:

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So what do you think about this NOS condition example, listed earlier today with a cool £975 price tag ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261241501926

Potential buyers were conspicuous by their absence; the highest of 6 offers it attracted over the 10-day listing period was only £575. 

Edit - It's just been re-listed a few minutes ago; the Buy-it-Now price reduced to from the previous 'pie-in-the-sky' £975 to 'only' £900:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261247986927 Note the current absence of a Make Best Offer button. Wishful thinking on the seller's part ?

Much to my surprise, it sold this afternoon for that £900 Buy-it-Now price.  Gotta be some kind of record for a 7A28 RAF Gen. 1. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261247986927

Rarely seen ?  Erm with 11,300 produced and regular almost weekly new appearances on eBay - I don't think so somehow. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310705745179

STANDARD ISSUE RAF PILOTS CHRONO WATCH MADE BY SEIKO OF JAPAN, this is a generation one watch. IT HAS HAD A NEW BATTERY FITTED (10/7/13) AND LOOKS TO KEEP GOOD TIME BUT WOULD BENEFIT FROM A CLEAN AND SERVICE. IT WILL BE SUPPLIED WITH A NEW BLACK MILITARY STRAP. NSN is 6045-99-7683056 SERIAL number is 7680 Year of manufacture is 1988 Post and packing via Royal Mail registered will be £12.50 for UK mainland ....

You can almost imagine what was going through the mind of this would-be UK seller as he listed his 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 today ....

"Well if that 'NOS condition' one can sell for £900, mine's gotta be worth £850 (to some mug punter)". 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380680800609

model: 7120 gen 1 RAF 

case: stainless steel 

case diameter: 36.5mm without crown 

crystal: original 

dial: original 

hands: original 

strap fitting: 20mm fixed bars 

THIS WATCH WITH ISSUE MARKS FOR 1990 IN EXCELLENT USED CONDITION. 

ALL WORKING CONDITION. 

PLEASE SEE ALL PHOTOGRAPHS.

But do as he says and look closely at the photos. This watch is not in the same league as far as condition goes. Not even close. 

So to the other end of the pricing spectrum - a 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 with an opening bid price of £0.99. Something you don't often see. In case you might have thought I'd missed this one, because I hadn't mentioned it earlier in the thread - I hadn't.  I first saw it a week ago, less than an hour after it was listed.  For some perverse reason, don't ask me why, I thought, for a while at least, about having a go at it myself. I even sent the seller a tongue-in-cheek message asking if they had a Buy-it-Now price. They didn't seem to have much idea. Bidding got under way and I chucked in a few half-hearted bids, still thinking about following through at the end, but when the seller added that amendment to the description, the day before yesterday, I made my mind up that I really couldn't be arsed.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271237618423

Vintage Seiko Military watch in generally good used condition. We know very little about this, but after looking it up we think it is a Gen 1 Military RAF issued watch- possibly pilot/ field gear. There are scratches to the glass surface. This watch has been stored for years and is untested, we have had the battery replaced by a jeweller and it immediately responded after pushing in the buttons at either side. The only problem is we do not know how to set this watch and neither did the jeweller, but someone with know how would hopefully have an idea. The face is black with Seiko and a P in a circle underneath. The hands and the No 12 at the top and every 5 mins are luminous. Around the edge of the dial has numbers 5 , 10 , 15 and so on to 60. There are 3 dials , the one on the left says 10,20 and 30 with Min in the middle and has a hand. The one on the right says 1/10 S and has no's 0, 2, up to 8. The bottom dial has sec in the middle and has intervals from 15 to 60. Says 100 percent stainless steel watch strap with a snap type fastener(The strap has fine surface scratches.) The back says Seiko stainless steel 7A28-7120 and AO in a rectangular box, then 6645-99 7683056 and an upward pointing arrow and below 5745/88 and under that is 814007and the Japan s and a mark that looks like two comma's opposite each other. Watch also states water resistant, but more likely if you splash it- not sure about that or how accurate that is. We are not experts, so please take all information from the photographs or email for any clarification.

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On 16-Jul-13 at 18:05:43 BST, seller added the following information:

We would just like to update that the bottom 6 o'clock dial on this watch is not working, therefore, this means it is not moving the hour and minute hand forward,even though the other two dials appear to be working.

Diabolical photos. Then there was that bracelet fitted - what damage might have been done to the fixed spring bars ? Maybe it was actually in half-decent cosmetic condition. Who knows ? Up until the final minute bidding had stalled at £155, and I was wondering whether I was letting a bargain slip through my fingers, but then the snipe bids started coming in. It ended at £275 after 21 bids.

You can almost imagine what was going through the mind of this would-be UK seller as he listed his 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 today ....

"Well if that 'NOS condition' one can sell for £900, mine's gotta be worth £850 (to some mug punter)". 

Obviously, to help me comment on auction / sales results, I've been adding these 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1's to my eBay watching page.

Damned nuisance it is too, with all the other stuff I'd rather be watching, particularly as I'm perilously close to the 200 items limit again.

So because I'm 'watching' these things, I get all the usual (irrelevant) eBay notifications. One arrived in my email inbox this afternoon:

Thought to myself 'Meh', and deleted it.  Just going through my eBay watching page list tonight, and had to do a double-take. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380680800609

Nope. I'm not going daft.  But the would-be seller appears to be suffering a bout of 'Martinachertok' madness. 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&_trksid=p2047675.l2569&rt=nc&item=380680800609

Needless to say, no offers were forthcoming and it went unsold. Re-listed again @ £995: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380685338518

In the meantime, the auction for that 'Rarely Seen' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 finished about 5 minutes ago:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310705745179

It sold for £435.73 after only 3 bids. The last 2 bids came in the final 5 seconds, the winner sniper taking it by a margin of 73 pence !

The auction received 270 views over the 10-day listing period.

Well, I'm blowed - another 'Rarely Seen' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 from the same eBay seller. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151088006004

STANDARD ISSUE RAF PILOTS CHRONO WATCH MADE BY SEIKO OF JAPAN, this is a generation one watch. (Spot on for the GULF 1 era) IT HAS HAD A NEW BATTERY FITTIED (10/7/13) AND LOOKS TO KEEP GOOD TIME BUT WOULD BENIFIT FROM A CLEAN AND SERVICE. IT WILL BE SUPPLIED WITH A NEW BLACK MILITARY STRAP. NSN is 6645-99-7683056 SERIAL number is 8757 Year of manufacture is 1989 Post and packing via Royal Mail registered will be £12.50 ....

Different watch, but virtually identical description (same typo's), save for serial numbers and same opening bid price as before of £350.

Needless to say, no offers were forthcoming and it went unsold. Re-listed again @ £995: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380685338518

And subsequently ended early yesterday evening (having received two low-ball offers) - presumably the error was in the pricing. 

Because it's back again this morning - now reduced to 'only' £795. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380687852964

Earlier this afternoon I received another email notification of a further price reduction from £795 to 'only' £695. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380687852964

It's the same watch, same item number. The seller re-ordered the photos not long after this most recent re-listing began:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&_trksid=p2047675.l2569&rt=nc&item=380687852964

That re-listing was ended early (again) because of another alleged error in the listing. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380687852964

to be re-listed once again, and finally sold in the early hours of this morning for a rather more realistic figure of £595:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380691464319

In the meantime, that second 'rarely seen' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 sold for £360, yesterday evening, after only 2 bids:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151088006004

The auction received 295 views over the 10-day listing period.

Now this is getting REALLY silly.  Another 'RARELY SEEN' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 from the same UK seller - his 3rd that I've seen:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310717758484

The eBay auction for the third of those not so 'Rarely Seen' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1's ended about 2 hours ago:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310717758484

As with this seller's previous listing there were only 2 bids placed, both in the final seconds. It sold for £386.76.

At the risk of repeating myself (once again) ....

Well, I'm blowed - another 'Rarely Seen' 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 from the same eBay seller.  This one's the 4th he's listed ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310724391463

I have read on different forums to get information also, given this great thought, no haven't been in the army, but why do they sell for such a price? 

confused ric  

Because Military watch collectors are prepared to pay a premium for genuinely issued watches, so they tend to drive up market prices.

Pretty simple really, but still makes no sense to me, when a stainless 7A38-7270 may sell for only a quarter the price of a 7A28-7120.