Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Recently there has been a proliferation of sample cases on the bay and wow! this was big money for a sample case, but if it's NOS you want...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251191375647

Yes James - there have been a few lately, but not all went for such crazy prices (dependant upon the 'desirability' factor), naturally. 

First there was this lovely 7A28-7049, which I'd commented on in another thread in this section, that ended on the 3rd December:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251190921089

The following day, there was this black chrome 7A28-7009 'Aliens', with the almost obligatory 'top pusher button has a small crack in it'.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251191370784

Which was followed closely by the pristine looking 7A38-7029 sample that you posted (and which was won by a member of this forum):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251191375647

Followed again, 10 minutes later by this little gold-tone 7A34-7019 also from the same seller, which nobody seemed interested in:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251191379579

A comparative bargain, that one ! 

Of course, as most collectors already know, St. Louis based Seiko retailer Ron Canda, who sells on eBay as 49Ronnie, has been knocking out salesman's sample cases for years. Lately however, he seems to be scraping the barrel to find anything half-decent .... (or complete, for that matter - which hasn't been robbed for some part or other - probably at the behest of some fellow enthusiast).

That's why I didn't mind paying $127.50 for a complete 7A28-7029 sample case / partial bracelet which I bought from him in August. 

There are probably still plenty more of these sample cases gathering dust on shelves in Seiko dealer's stock rooms, even today.

Here's almost a full salesman's case of (mostly) 7Axx's which sold on eBay in the States in October this year - for $405 for the lot:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110964546809

.... and the tantalizing listing photos:

Here are a couple more 7A38 sample cases with partial bracelets which sold (again for fairly hefty prices) on eBay early this morning:

Another stainless 7A38-7029, for slightly less this time - sold for $249.99:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261141228374

and a stainless 7A38-7289 - for $199.99, which in normal circumstances, you'd expect would buy you a complete working example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261141230236

As these particular 7A38's aren't indigenous to Japan, let alone as salesman's sample cases, and this Japanese seller is also currently offering both two-tone and gold plated 7A34-7019 sample cases (@ $69.99 each):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261124779496 and http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261124771539

.... and has also recently sold a 7T32-7A09 sample case http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261124781566 for $50 ....

Although it doesn't show in his feedback, I think it would be fairly safe to assume it was he who bought that salesman's sample case 'chronograph lot' (item # 110964546809) from 'tartiana' for $405 back in October - and that he's keeping the 7A28's for himself. 

Edit: I later found the feedback left against another eBay ID 'nsxtypes' - which is clearly an alternative ID used by 'fukayanegi'. 

I was just scrolling back through the 'Craziest eBay Prices' thread, and found this post which I made on 20th October ....

Thought it might be worth tacking a copy and paste onto this thread. 

We've seen some crazy prices asked (and paid) for 7A28-7000 / -7009 Black 'Aliens', and commented on them in other threads ....

But how about this ? Somebody paid $410 (approx £254.41) for an empty partial salesman's sample case a little over a month ago:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110951276048

I didn't see it at the time it was listed, but came across it scrolling through the seller's feedback, to see what else I'd missed. 

The buyer 'k37048235' would appear, on the face of it, to be a Japanese stamp collector. 

Just for the record, here are a couple of other 7Axx salesman's sample cases sold separately by 'tartiana' around the same time.

A 7A38-6109 with almost a complete bracelet, which sold for $99 (approx £61.43):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110962039111

That one was purchased by a member of this forum, and had already been mentioned in the 7A38-6109 Model Specific thread:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7203846-7a38-6109-saa114j-mid-size-gold-plated-blingy-diver-us-market-model-

.... and then there was this 7A28-7049 sample case with partial band, which sold for the same price - $99 - a week or so earlier:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110956993575

That sample case was purchased by the French eBay dealer 'martial_auvergne', through whose hands a number of Seiko 7Axx's pass.

It may well have contributed to a rather mint-looking 7A28-7040 which he sold (relatively cheaply by his standards) a month or so later:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321016395257

Yet another eBay auction for a 7A28-7009 Aliens sample case just ended. These things are nearly as 'rare' (not) as the watches. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160952349030

This one sold for a rather more down-to-earth $177.50 (approx. £110.50) after 15 bids. 

The same US eBay seller had also listed a Titanium 7A28-7089 salesman's sample case and partial bracelet. I've seen a good few of these (and also the 7A28-7069 crackle-black coated Ti version) offered by Ron '49Ronnie' Canda over the last couple of years.

Some of them have sold for 'silly' prices. This one went for $167.50 (approx. £104) after 23 bids - about 'par for the course'.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160952934353

Are these sample cases economically viable?

As I understand it, these cases have no movements. Now if you have an identical and complete 7AXX sitting around for a while, you would have already paid for it originally to acquire it, add to that the sample case cost-giving you "X".

Alternatively, if you buy the sample case at today's prices, then search around for a donor movement (again at today's prices)- this gives you "Y". I think both scenarios X and Y will be fairly expensive exercises. Admittedly it gives you a great condition 7AXX, but you still may then have to look around for the balance of the bracelet (extra links and clasp)

Is it worth it???

I presume you mean 'viable' in terms of resale value, Con ?

Looking at the prices some of the salesman's sample cases mentioned in this thread have sold for recently, then it would seem not. 

But if you're trying to obtain a mint example for your collection (by either building one from scratch around a donor movement, or using the sample case and partial bracelet to re-furbish a worn example), then there's probably no better way of going about it. 

The problem arises when you buy something like the Titanium 7A28-7080/9 sample above. That has a unique clasp design and pretty distinctive links. A number of people have bought them as sample cases (years ago) and are still looking for the elusive missing parts. For one John 'TheTigerUK' Bentley has posted numerous 'Wanted' adverts on SCWF Trading Post. Here's the three most recent:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,36581.html WTB: Bracelet clasp end pieces for a B1093 (7A28-7080)

http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,39288.html WTT: Seiko 6105 for 7A28 bracelet clasp.

http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,39869.html WTT: Three 6105 dials for bracelet.

Kinda gives the impression of flogging a dead horse. 

Yeah - I've got one of those ponies Paul 

I look on it as a long term investment. At some point maybe I'll get hold of a well used full version, and as you say be able to swap in the new parts to make a clean looking watch.

Hey Paul,

Yes I am. I'm trying to see if it's more viable to go down the path of sample cases etc or just wait for the right condition version to show up on one of the many watch sites.

The bracelet situation only makes matters worse. Whilst I would love to own a 7A28-7080/9, not being able to wear it because it's incomplete would bug the crap out of me. I doubt it would be easy to find the links/clasp on any of the other sample cases above.

What I omitted to say in my previous post is that with many of the 7Axx sample cases, it is possible to 'get away' with using a 'generic' Z-fold type (usually 16mm) clasp of the kind you can buy, very cheaply, from Cousins UK:

http://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/watch-straps-bracelets-fittings/fittings-clasps-for-watch-bracelets

Sometimes they may need slight modification with a Dremel to fit. Problem with the Titanium 7A28-7080/9 is it just wouldn't look right.

Funnily enough, there was a thread about that Ti 7A28-7089 on SCWF yesterday:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,40743.html Anyone here grab this one?

A few more posts have been added to that SCWF thread today, reaffirming the virtual non-availability of these spare parts, including:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,40743.msg275432.html#msg275432

I think the clasp is next to impossible to find.

I have been looking for a couple of years, thanks to Harry (whitesneak) i did get some spare links (wow) but the clasp and the links to fit the clasp to the bracelet..............

That's exactly what I mean!!!!

Imagine going through the time and expense to find/buy the sample case, movement and then not being able to wear it because you can't find the proper links and clasp

Stop rubbing salt in the wound  

I live in hope that ebay will turn up a really trashed (and cheap) watch with only the bracelet clasp worth salvaging 

not cheap but trashed and WITHOUT the correct bracelet

http://www.ebay.de/itm/SEIKO-CHRONOGRAPH-QUARZ-TITANIUM-SPORT-100-ANNO-1980-/370664080330

I own a black Titanium - great to wear this model

Ha ha-now that's rubbing it in!!! 

There are probably still plenty more of these sample cases gathering dust on shelves in Seiko dealer's stock rooms, even today.

There are certainly still plenty turning up on eBay in the States, but you sometimes need to look very carefully at what you're buying.

Like this 'head only' 7A38-7029 sample case, which has been robbed of it's partial bracelet, crown and sweep second hand, but ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111004204834

Look closely at the seller's original photo and you'll also see tool marks on the dial near the bosses of the hour and minute hand. 

The same US eBay seller also has these three on offer - the first one either has a wrong case-back fitted or is captioned incorrectly:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160961411225    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160961383883    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111004197806