Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Funny coincidence: yesterday, while I was checking the forum's control panel statistics package yesterday, I noticed a very specific incoming google search by a UK visitor: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jean+lassale+thalassa+black+dial+chronograph+watch

Unfortunately, it didn't lead him to this topic, but the other original Jean Lassale Thalassa missing 7Axx thread I wrote in this section.

So I guess he tried to do his homework. Pity it wasn't reflected in the quality of this eBay listing which appeared yesterday evening. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231016872795

For sale genuine gents vintage stainless steel Jean Lassale thalassa chronograph wrist watch model number 7a 74-027 black dial gold battons this is a quality watch being vintage it has been worn and has scratches to case bracelet and glass these are minor and could be polished out I would recommend a full refurbishment to bring this classic Swiss watch to a good standard I have had the battery replaced and it is in full working order it was not re-sealed the seal is intact it had an original sealing of 50 m I would recommend it be resealed at some point the crown at 8 o'clock and chronograph pushers at 10, 2 and 4 o'clock. a 1/10 of a second sub-dial at 3 o'clock, constant seconds at 6 o'clock and a 30 minute counting sub-dial at 9 o'clock the sweep second hand does not line up to 12 when reset i am told this is easy to reset i havnt worked out how to yet i do not have the original box or any paper work it will come in a quality box as per photograph it was given to me by a relative I already own a good watch this would make an excellent addition to any collection ,I will post out special delivery next working day buy with confidence check out my feedback any question please message me I have set a fare fixed price for this classic watch I have been honest with my description it is in full working order and in fair to good condition you are bidding to buy

Not entirely a surprise, given the lacklustre photos, and even poorer listing - it didn't sell first time around. It was re-listed earlier today:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231020772971

At least, this time, he's managed to spell Lassale correctly (if not Chronograph), but the model number, which should be 7A74-017 is still wrong in both his subtitle and description. There's also a 'Make Best Offer' button this time around, which may add some interest.

In the meantime, New York jewellery dealer Kasiart's stainless and 18ct 7A74-018, which was one of the first I ever saw on eBay, and commented on at the beginning of the other Jean Lassale thread, in April 2012 appears to have finally sold after umpteen re-listings:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230774425922

That stainless black-dialed Thalassa was re-listed once again, reduced to £295. I thought someone might go for it this time around:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231026649399

But no-one made grab for it in the final minute. 

This stainless and 18ct 7A74-018, listed by a US eBay seller in the early hours of this morning, will probably attract more attention.

Although in pretty well-worn condition and with a short-ish bracelet, the opening bid price is only $0.99 cents; no reserve price set.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271253930705

UP FOR GRABS IS A JEAN LASSALE THALASSA CHRONOGRAPH 18K GOLD & STAINLESS STEEL SWISS MADE. A COLLECTOR'S ONE THE CASE IS 38MM, THE BAND IS 25+MM FROM CASE AND AT THE BOTTOM COMES DOWN TO 18MM. THE SIZE IS 7 INCHES SEE PICS, WEIGHT IS 114.5 GRAMS TOTAL WEIGHT. IT KEEPS VERY GOOD TIME AS FOR THE MOVEMENT IT'S ORIGINAL JEAN LASSALE INC. UNADJUSTED SWISS SEE PICS. THE WATCH YOU SEE IS THE ONE YOU ARE GETTING IT READS WATER RESISTANT, 18K GOLD TESTED AND ALSO STAMP 18K GOLD S. STEEL. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SHADED SPOTS ON THE FACE ONE ACROSS THE OTHER. HONESTLY I DON'T KNOW THE REASON FOR THAT. KEEP IN MIND IT HAS BEEN USED THEREFORE YOU MAY SEE SOME SCRATCHES NOTHING MAJOR. IT COULD USE SOME BUFFING AND CLEAN SERVICE IN THE MOVEMENT IT WILL BE UP TO YOU OR JUST WEAR IT. IT'S RUNNING VERY GOOD. FEEL FREE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU BID. GOOD LUCK

Problem is, like so many of these short-sighted US eBay sellers, he's blocking bids from outside USA. 

The auction for that Jean Lassale Thalassa 7A74-018 ended in the early hours of this morning, selling for $504 (approx. £326):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271253930705

The price achieved wasn't that spectacular - probably on the high side, given the poor / tired condition of the watch ....

But what was surprising was the actual number of bids placed - 49 !  32 of those bids were placed by one bidder m***9 (614) which,

in the circumstances, might lead one to question whether there was some shill bidding involved. Check out the bidding history:

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=271253930705

But he's not the culprit. Try 3***e (11). This bidder has 100% activity on this seller's other items (and no others) in the last week. 

It's nearly 9 months since I last updated this topic. There quite possibly have been other Jean Lassale Thalassa 7A74's listed and sold in the interim, but I personally haven't seen any - but then I hadn't run any Worldwide searches on eBay.com, until earlier this evening.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151285083211

OFFERED AT .99 WITH NO RESERVE! 

Mans Jean Lassale chronograph. Thalassa model. 18K gold and stainless. body and band is excellent. 

Band is nice and tight, no sag. will fit up to 8-8+1/2...manila dial is mint. 3 register with Tachymeter outer dial. 

There is one missing button. also crown came off (have the crown). 

The watch runs and keeps time. chronograph button works. lower chrono button does not reset hands. 

Body measures 38X38mm. you are getting it just the way I found it at local estate! 

Guaranteed original. will make a great addition to your collection! 

Winning bidder to pay $12.95 priority mail shipping in the US, insurance included. 

$32.95 priority mail insured for International bidders. 

THANKS!!!

As can be seen from the last photo of case-back, it's a 7A74-018 - in stainless and 18ct gold. This model with the cream / champagne (or Manilla as the seller calls it) coloured dial appears to be the commonest variant. The problem with this particular example is not so much the crown, which could hopefully easily be rectified with a new Seiko 7Axx crown stem, but the missing (solid) 18ct gold pusher.

When I first saw it, a few hours ago, it might have made a sensible project @ $361, but at the time of writing, bidding is already just shy of $620 with 5 hours still to go. I'm off to bed - and I won't be losing any sleep over this one. 

No further bids were forthcoming, so that's how it ended in the early hours of this morning:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151285083211 - sold for $619.56 (approx.  £368.61) after 10 bids.

Here's a Jean Lassale Thalassa 7A74-018 that was listed on eBay Germany yesterday - in almost exactly the spec' I always fancied. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201124479557

Hersteller: Jean Lassale

Werk : Quarz

Funktionen: Stunden, Minuten, Sekunde, Datum, Chronograph

Armband: Stahl/Gold 14k

Gehäuse: Stahl/Gold 14k

Glas: Saphir

Durchmesser : (ohne Krone) 38mm

Die Uhr wird mit Box und Papieren geliefert 

Zustand: guter Zustand funktioniert einwandfrei

12 Monate Garantie

Two tone stainless and gold (though the seller's description states it's 14k rather than 18k); white dial; 'Swiss Made' and push-button butterfly clasp. Doesn't look like it's been polished either - a refreshing change. Oh well, perhaps the asking price may come down. 

Originally posted by new member Radsport on July 26, 2014 at 8:15 PM (original post with irrelevant quote deleted):

I'm a new user and have a 7A74-018 with a missing chronograph function button. I'm wondering if anyone knows where I can find one?

Thanks so much!

Sorry. Can't help - other than to offer a couple of suggestions.

If you've read through the other Jean Lassale Thalassa thread, then you'll know that Jean Lassale SA went bankrupt in June 2003.

They may once have occupied a suite of offices on Fifth Avenue, New York, but I suspect this was just a sales administration address  - serving as an import hub from Switzerland and facilitating distribution to the various boutique outlets where these watches were sold.

I doubt very much if they had a US service centre (I've never found any reference to one) and that any faulty units were returned there - and (if supplied at all) any case / bracelet spare parts (e.g. spare links) would have been suppled to retailers direct from Switzerland.

I've already proven that the (re-stamped) movements were supplied by Seiko. However the watches appear to have been assembled in Switzerland using out-sourced case and bracelet parts. Hence my interest (2 years ago) in discovering the owner of this atelier's mark:

Follow up on my unfinished research from page one of this thread; find the owner of that atelier's mark and (if the company still exists)

you'll quite possibly find a source for spare parts. No guarantees - but if I needed a pusher button (or anything else) that's what I'd try.

Here's a 'starter' to give you an idea of what you're looking for: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f295/swiss-makers-marks-221601.html

Another option might be to have one made - by a proper watchmaker / jeweller using one of your other pusher buttons as a pattern.

Compared to other screw-in pusher buttons (like those used on the Cartier Ferrari Formula chrono's) they're not that complicated.

However having one made in 18ct gold, even with the minimal machining work required, I expect it may prove an expensive exercise.

PS - if you do reply to this thread again, remember: PLEASE - Don't quote me !!

That old WatchUSeek thread I posted a link to above, itself includes a number of links to other websites - which I'll admit I hadn't bothered to follow up on before. One of them, a German website www.mikrolisk.de quickly provides an answer on page 2 of 'A'

However the German word 'unbestätigt' (in brackets) means 'unconfirmed'. 

By coincidence, around the time I'd started my research two years ago, someone asked the same question on the NAWCC forum:

http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?90723-Help-Identifying-Case-marked-ADB

The OP doesn't actually state the brand of watch the case-back is from, merely: This is the caseback of a dive watch. 

However, it's clearly the same atelier's mark. 'Mirolisk' (the same person who owns that website) answered slightly more positively:

I assume(!) it is from A. Dubois (Alexandre Dubois, Fabrique du Grenier / Dubois Freres & Cie.) from Neuchâtel, La Chaux-de-Fonds, Geneve and Lengnau.

Whether 'Mirolisk' is correct in his assumption remains to be seen. 

If you're interested in following up on this line of investigation, you're welcome to google all / any of the above - which can take you in any number of directions: even as far back as a watchmaking company founded by Alexandre Dubois in La Chaux-de-Fonds in 1888.

These next couple of posts are by way of a belated addenda - and to show that I'm not always as infallable as I'd have you believe. 

The original subject of this thread was my own all-stainless 7A74-017 Jean Lassale Thalassa and my strip down and fettling of it, but I'd kept it going by updating it with any new eBay listings or other advertisements I saw for them. Fairly religiously, or so I thought.  

I've been trading PM's with a forum member who's interested in acquiring a Thalassa 7A74. I recently wrote back to him:

Yes the JL Thalassa's are nice - if something of an aquired taste. If you've read through the longer three page thread, then you'll have seen every 7A74 that I've seen myself over the last two years - my opinions on their condition and the prices they sold for. That last one on eBay Germany was nice - I quite fancied it myself, but couldn't justify the price. I suspect as the seller hasn't re-listed it, it may have been sold (off eBay), but it might be worth dropping him a message.

The link that I posted to that ended auction is good - or it was at the time.

The reason it doesn't work any more is that the German eBay seller kristian-uhrmacher-juwelier is no longer a registered eBay user.

It's one of those annoying eBay foibles. Strangely, it's still there as an ended item on my eBay watching page, but if I click on it, I get the same error message. It was while I was browsing eBay history, trying to find that listing (and another way of re-linking it), I realized that I'd completely missed a couple of other Thalassa's on eBay recently. I know the reason too. I'd originally had three different eBay saved favourite searches set up to find them (when I was actively looking for one for myself). A while back, I did a bit of 'rationalization' - and probably selected the wrong one for deletion. I've since re-instated it, needless to say. Thinking about it - remember this bit ?

It's nearly 9 months since I last updated this topic. There quite possibly have been other Jean Lassale Thalassa 7A74's listed and sold in the interim, but I personally haven't seen any - but then I hadn't run any Worldwide searches on eBay.com, until earlier this evening.

Anyway, here they are (or should I say were):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//310960105242

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390851377999

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131238670850

The first one, listed by a US eBay seller ccloan, presumably an online pawn shop, is a variation I hadn't seen before ....

It's the champagne coloured faux guilloché dial in two-tone stainless and 18ct gold on a bracelet (rather than a leather strap).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310960105242

Jean Lassale Chronograph Swiss Made 7A74-018 18k Gold & Stainless Steel Watch

You are bidding on a previously owned and in running condition Jean Lassale Thalassa Chronograph Swiss Made wrist watch. This auction is for the wrist watch you see pictured only. There is nothing else included. It has just had a brand new battery installed and is running great! Look at the pictures to get a better idea of the condition and what you are bidding on. The band is a combination of 18k gold and stainless steel. This is marked on the case back of the watch. It shows light wear with some marks on it from being worn. The crystal is clean with no scratches or nicks. Inside band circumference is about 6 1/2". A genuine gentlemans Jean Lassale chronograph wristwatch in stainless steel and yellow gold with matching bracelet. This watch has a quartz movement; rapid date change; push buttons; and sapphire crystal. The case diameter is 37 mm. Beautiful Watch! Please take a moment to look at my other great auctions. Thanks ccloan

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The second was offered at the end of May by Turkish eBay seller aquawatch, who we've seen knocking out quite a few 7A38's - of distinctly varying quality over the last year or so. Surprised that he didn't make the (Seiko) 7Axx connection. Or perhaps he did. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390851377999

Description: Jean Lassale Thalassa chronograph very nice very rare full original full working black dial stainless steel fancy watch 7a74-017 quartz 1980's

Case: stainless steel octagonal case

Size: 38mm

Glass: original glass

Dial: black colour fancy dial

Crown: original crown and buttons

Strap: original steel bracelet

Movement: quartz chronograph

Working:full and good working

As his photos tend to be rather similar and in the interests of page loading times, I've only uploaded 7 out of the seller's 12 photos.

One thing is clear - that the crown fitted wasn't original; likely something he found in his bits box. Another 'anomoly' is the date wheel.

With previous examples of 7A74-017 fitted with this black dial with gold batons and hands, the date wheel has been black numbering on a white background. Something IIRC, that I'd commented adversely about. I'm wondering if this 'variation' was original. 

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The third one which was only a 3-day listing in mid-July, was another two-tone stainless / 18ct with that champagne coloured faux guilloché dial, but on a leather strap - in fact the same as the example I posted at the top of page two of this thread. But read on ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131238670850

PLEASE READ BEFORE BIDDING

I work for a local watch repair shop, we service and repair all types of watches. Some of our customers decide not to repair their watch after the estimate is provided. A small percentage of those customers donate their watch for parts, but we rarely have a need for these. They usually end up sitting in a bin for years. All watches being sold are in non-working condition unless otherwise stated and should be used for spare parts or a restoration project. I am not a watch expert but will describe the watches and answer any questions to the best of my ability. 

Vintage Jean Lassale Chronograph Thalassa 18k Gold Stainless Steel Watch 

Up for bid is a Vintage Jean Lassale Chronograph Thalassa 18k Gold Stainless Steel Watch. Watch is not running. I can pull out the crown and engage the hour and minute hand, and date. There are supposed to be 3 push buttons but as can be seen in the pictures there are only 2 and they push down fine. Watch is in decent shape some signs of wear taking in consideration the age of the watch. The band is also original to the watch its in used condition, but the clasp closes down fine. I would like to stress that these watches are being sold AS-IS.

So, for $176 and change, someone got themselves a relatively cheap project watch - in Thalassa terms. OK, so it's a non-runner. The white sulphate deposits on the boss of the constant seconds hand are a pretty good indication of some serious battery acid damage lurking under the dial. The hour and minute hands are tarnished too, but will probably polish up. Any movement problems could easily be solved with a cheap 7A34 donor. Replacements for those couple of missing backplate screws shouldn't be that hard to find, either. But a missing 18ct pusher button ? - that's hen's teeth territory. 

Funny coincidence, given the timing of Radsport's post  - a matter of two weeks after this listing ended. Call me cynical if you like. 

Please excuse the slight post - but it's my thread (and my forum) so I'll do what I like.

Yeah I know I've posted about these adverts before in this thread and also in the original Jean Lassale Thalassa 7A74 thread.

But when I was running that retrospective search on eBay.com on ended auctions, I found another slight variation on the advert.

You'll find more parts in the bracelet of this award-winning Thalassa than you will in a Rolls-Royce engine.

Bearing in mind my current line of re-branded non-Seiko 7Axx research, I found the FRED (retailer) connection rather amusing. 

Belated Edit: September 8, 2014

Indeed, while I was searching a French magazine's online archives, for an image of the Fred Force 10 '7A38', I found this page. 

The first sighting of an all 18ct gold Jean Lassale Thalassa 7A74, albeit on a leather strap. So they did exist - at least on paper. 

My recent acquisitions! The Thalassa from the UK seller on this page and a 7A48 JDM version. The 7A48 has a very dirty movement and will be cleaned by my watchmaker. The Thalassa is in great condition and the movement is very clean. Both watches have been fitted with a new battery.

Spotted another stainless white dialed Jean Lassale Thalassa 7A74-017 listed on eBay Germany:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151414112575

There's only one eBay hosted image which only enlarges to 480x640:

The seller has embedded the remainder of them in the description as a continuous string (total file size 6.3MB), which won't upload to Photobucket for some reason. So here it is, for the time being at least, hot-linked direct from the seller's alternative photo hosting:

The 'gotcha' is in the seller's bi-lingual listing description - another missing pusher button. 

Herren Armbanduhr aus den 80er Jahren. Jean Lassale Chronograph, Thalassa. Gebrauchter, aber guter Zustand, sie funktioniert einwandfrei, ein Einstellknopf fehlt. Dieser ist sicher zu ersetzen. Leider habe ich von diesen Dingen keine Ahnung und weiß nicht was ein Sammler gerne wissen möchte. Fragen beantworte ich gern per Mail.

Mens watch from the 80s. Jean Lassale Chronograph, Thalassa. Used but good condition, it works perfectly, one knob missing. This is sure to replace. Unfortunately, I have no idea about these things and do not know what a collector would like to know. I answer questions like e-mail.

Unfortunately 'we collectors' know that replacement pushers for these watches are like the proverbial rocking horse manure. 

I may as well tack this 7A74-018 on the bottom, to finish off the page. It came up in my eBay saved favourite searches earlier today. Unfortunately, it's not exactly priced to sell @ $1590.90 and to add insult to injury there's eBay Global Shipping fees of nearly $500 !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281481010603

Offered for is this Excellent Vtg ( 1980's ) Jean Lassale 18K Solid Gold & Stainless Steel Original Chronograph Watch. 

This Beautiful Classic Gentleman's Watch comes from an estate of Fine Vintage Watches & Great Old Pocket Watches. 

This Jean Lassale 15 Jewel Quartz Watch comes complete with a Fresh Battery, and has run right on time for several days. 

This Watch Features a Heavy Port Hole Style 18k Solid yellow gold Bezel with 18k Gold pushers & crown. 

All functions are working, and this watch is ready to wear. 

The Case & Bracelet are ding & scratch free, plus is super clean, free of any soiling. The back still has the Original plastic seal in place. 

The Bracelet and Watch combined are a little over 8" as my wrist is 8" and would need at least one link removed for fitting. 

We don't have the Original Box or papers as we just overlooked it at this Huge Estate of watches. 

This Watch WILL get the attention deserved when packaging. 

Christmas is FAST approaching, so do consider this a Wonderful Gift Idea ....

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Belated Edit: There's something fishy going on with this one. The following day, October 30th, the seller listed the same 7A74-018 (same photos, same description) as a low start (US $0.99) 7-day auction - in parallel with the existing 10-day Buy-it-Now listing. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271651625113

The photos may be in a different order, but the case-back serial number shown S58 151 is the same.

I'm not sure of the legitimacy of such duplicate listings (as far as eBay rules are concerned), but their ethics suck. 

Especially when the seller has cr*p like We do wish everyone the Best of God's Blessings in both their listings. Bloody hypocrites ! 

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Final Post-script:

That (second) auction listing ended with the 7A74-018 selling for $750 (approx. £473.39) after 21 bids. Not a bad price for one of these.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271651625113

The seller duly ended the original Buy-it-Now listing a couple of hours later - quite possibly rueing his decision. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281481010603