Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Those of you reading the title of this topic and thinking to yourselves 'Oh No - not another Yema Spationaute III thread'  

Look away now ! 

In my various scribblings on this forum (and others) I've made it abundantly clear that the 43mm Yema Spationaute III  is my favourite (non-Seiko branded) 7A38 - particularly the scarcer variants with the 'Cadran Drapeaux' Aragatz Mission Flags dials.

However, it transpires I may have been labouring under a delusion about their true significance and indeed supposed rarity. 

If you've read through my lengthy ramblings in the What became of Jean-Loup Chretien's Yema Spationaute III ? thread ....

you'll already know some of the background, but to briefly recap, here's a couple of partial copy and pastes from the first page:

I'd been lucky enough to pick up such a dial on eBay France in November 2009, with a few loose hands and a crown for only 5 Euros:

My eBay 'twin flags' dial had obviously been used. There is a small area of micro-blistering on the 30min counting subdial for starters.

Plus the screw-down crown and hands supplied with it were all secondhand. So somebody had broken up a once-complete watch.

It didn't occur to me at the time, but this was all that was left of what once had been one of the original Yema factory prototypes.

That last sentence should of course read: but was this ? (as a question) - but that's how I wrote it at the time - Ergo Stet. 

By the time I'd got to the bottom of the first page, doubts about the provenance of my dial were beginning to set in; I wrote:

Indeed, by my own subsequent efforts, I have come pretty close to proving that it most likely isn't, but just another factory prototype.

Halfway down the second page of that thread, I wrote:

Perhaps I should have re-subtitled these last two posts as:

What became of the prototype Spationaute III used in Yema's 1989 L'Heure des Héros ad campaign ?

Hmm. Good question indeed. Could it possibly be that I had inadvertantly bought all that was left of it, on eBay in November 2009 ? 

Followed further down that page (after I'd posted photos of Michel Tognini's Aragatz 'mission crew' Spationaute III) by:

While it's become somewhat academic, now thanks to Michel Tognini's invaluable assistance, we've learnt that the Yema Spationaute III's presented to the Aragatz crews were significantly different - not only to the production versions, but my own 'mission flags' watch .... I wonder how many of those (presumably pre-production) Spationaute III's with the mission flags '12' dial were produced besides. 

Of course as it transpired, It wasn't of any of those things.  Reading back through that thread again, some of my earlier assumptions, particularly about my bargain basement eBay 'Mission Flags' dial, today come across as sounding rather naive.

But what you've got to remember, is that at that time, I hadn't seen another watch containing that dial in over 3 years of looking.

By November 2012, all I'd had to go on were this text and illustration from the Yema L’Heure des Héros magazine advert:

.... and Jecko' s scan of the Yema catalogue page, showing the Mission Flags dial version:

The first hard evidence I saw (albeit admittedly somewhat belatedly) was Jacques Raulet's example, originally offered for sale on his website as far back as 2005. I still have no idea how I'd failed to spot it previously, but I suspect the website may have been offline. Apologies for yet another copy and paste from that same thread, but I'm trying to build up the background. 

Originally posted by myself on February 20, 2013 at 10:00 PM:

Apart from those prototypes presented to the Aragatz crews and the 'mission flags' dial which I bought on eBay France, back in 2009,

I have never seen any Yema Spationaute III with those flags on the dial - in three years of searching on eBay, LebonCoin, the 'Net ....

Until earlier today ....

I must have googled Yema Spationaute III hundreds of times over the last couple of years - and particularly so over the last six months.

Somehow, this popped up in my search results today - first time I'd ever clapped eyes on it. The photos are from a for sale advert on a French website, last updated in 2006; the image properties show they were taken in October 2005. Sadly, it's long since been sold:

http://jacques.raulet.free.fr/picts/_divers/montre_yema_spationautre_III/montre_yema_spationautre_III.html (asking price was 150 € )

No surprise: the main hands are silver painted, with aged lume - much like those which came supplied with my eBay 'mission flags' dial.

I followed that up with the first example of a Mission Flags dialed Spationaute III, that I saw listed on eBay France ....

which, unusually for me, I don't seem to have posted (in parallel) in the customary Yema N7's / N8's spotted thread.

Belated update, 21st July 2013:

Perhaps these early production versions of the Spationaute III with the 'mission flags' dial aren't quite as rare as I'd first imagined.

Eventually, as it was probably bound to, one appeared on eBay in France - funnily enough on Bastille Day   July 14th 2013:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130947525775

MARQUE: YEMA Spationaute III

TYPE: chronometre au 100 eme a quartz 

ETAT: fonctionnent parfaitement tien l'heure

MATIERE: Boitier et fond acier 

CADRAN:parfait état 

AIGUILLES: type glaive

MECANISME: SEIKO 7A28 parfait état de marche

VERRE: mineral rayé

DIMENSION: 43MM hors anse et couronne

Apart from the seller's basic mistake of calling the movement a 7A28 (instead of a 7A38) , there was the hefty 300 Euro asking price - for the far-from-ideal condition. The seller had stated in their description that the crystal was scratched, but that apart, the bezel was missing the dark blue painted inlay detail, and in the photo of the case-back the engraving appeared to have been all but obliterated. 

It was a 10-day listing. I dutifully added it to my eBay watching page, then agonized about it for a week. Too long it would seem. 

But just how rare are these things ? Well, based on the number of sightings of examples offered for sale - compared to 'ordinary' 43mm Yema Spationaute III's with the tricoleur Y Yema logo (and any variant of dial printing), they still come up very infrequently.

I'm not just talking about the usual sales sites like eBay, LeBonCoin, Chrono24.com and Chronomania.net, but anywhere, including obscure sites like: www.2ememain.be (where I bought one of mine) and adult dating website www.OnSeConnait.com. 

I've just spent an hour or so wading through all 23 pages of the Yema N7's and N8's spotted thread (starting at page 7). 

Discounting duplications, where Mission Flag dialed Spationaute III's have either been listed across multiple sites, or the same watch has subsequently been offered for sale by an eBay re-seller, between July 2013 and April 2017 there have been only 7.

As a matter of interest, their asking prices varied between 120 Euros (one I bought) and 600 Euros (still unsold). 

At this point, it would be remiss of me not to mention the sighting (in a photo) of two other examples, definitely not for sale ....

Those belonging to one-time Export manager of C.G.H., Gerald Roden (see: page 3 of the Jean-Loup Chretien thread)

Whereas the watch on the left is as you'd expect, that on the right, although it shares the same 'production' Mission Flags dial, is fitted with the differently engraved bezel used on the Arargatz crew watches, so may well be an interim factory prototype.

So, where am I headed with this thread, you may ask  - which I realize is already turning into another of my rambling tomes. 

Well last month, as you may have read, I bought another 'Mission Flags' dialed Yema Spationaute III off eBay France.

It wasn't the best of examples, with a tatty strap, badly worn case-back, scratched crystal and dodgy lume on the hour hand.

For expediency's sake, here's a slightly edited copy and paste my post from page 23 of the Yema N7 / N8's spotted thread:

Originally posted by myself on March 9, 2017 at 12:10 PM:

This well-worn full size 43mm Yema Spationaute III was listed last week by another French eBay seller. Not a great deal going for it, besides the 'Mission Flags' dial - other than it came with the original C.G.H. headed instruction sheets. The opening bid price was 50 Euros; I spotted the 7-day auction with less than 8 hours to go, at which point bidding appeared to have stalled @ 100 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351994700441

Belle et rare montre Yema le bracelet est à changer

Elle fonctionne parfaitement le verre a une rayure.

Réponse et envoi de photos sur demande ne pas hésiter.

Envoi France 5euro Mondialrelay

Envoi Europe 18euro Colissimo

Envoi monde 26euro colissimo

Le 04-mars-17 à 11:59:14 Paris, le vendeur a ajouté les informations suivantes :

La notice est vendu avec (12 pages)

The auction ended yesterday evening, selling for 201 Euros after 18 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351994700441

More than just the watch itself, I really wanted to win the auction for the A4 C.G.H. instruction sheets, which came with it. I wrote up what I've done with it, so far, in another existing thread: My newest incoming Yema Spationaute III .... and strap changes !

I'll refrain from yet another copy and paste - you can go and read it there (at the bottom of page 2) if you want. 

At that time, nearly a month ago, all I did initially with that instruction booklet was to use it as a photo backdrop. 

As you can see from those couple of photos, it was quite grubby and slightly dog-eared, with the printing ink flaking off the cover.

So rather than make matters worse by handling it unnecessarily, I put it in a protective vinyl sleeve and promptly forgot about it. 

Yesterday morning, I had to go into work - and although I needed to be there, I knew I'd have an hour or two of quiet to myself ....

I took the folder with me, so I could sit down and actually read the document (it's in French, naturellement) and make a photocopy.

I must admit that the Instructions themselves turned out to be something of a disappointment. Apart from the Spationaute III cover sheet and the interesting date stamp of 88-11 - November 1988, printed at the bottom of the back cover, the contents were something of a case of Déjà Vu. The French text and generic illustrations are almost the same as those found in the little (110mm x 85mm) Yema N7 / N8 / N9 Instruction booklet produced the following year - just obviously in a larger size.

Indeed, as shown in one of the eBay seller's photos - so it really shouldn't have been a surprise. But there was something else, besides the Instructions - a second document whose cover page had come adrift and was shoved in between the other pages:

The statement on the cover of that second document clarifies one of my earlier doubts (from the Jean-Loup Chrétien thread):

Perhaps C.G.H. hadn't managed to secure an exclusive agreement with C.N.E.S. (as Matra would appear to have done previously).

So having made a set of copies and after quickly touching up the copy cover, I fed them back through the photocopier / scanner and produced a pair of .pdfs, which for the benefit of anyone else who might be interested, are now hosted on the website:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/Yema-SpationauteIII-Instructions.pdf

http://www.seiko7a38.com/Yema-SpationauteIII-Specification.pdf

Should you wish to print them off in their original formats (or at least the way my 'original' copies came), then the Instructions should be printed double-sided and the other 5-page document single-sided.

Before anyone else points out their faux pas, I should draw your attention to the material specification at bottom of page 2:

Once again, the 'mythical' Titanium watch case rears it's head - which thanks to Jean-Loup Chrétien's reply (Stainless Steel), we know never came to fruition - not even the 'prototype' Aragatz mission space-flown versions, let alone made it to production. 

The Clarification, at last, in the topic title ?  That comes as a bold PS at the bottom of the last page of the second document. 

Which translates as: A numbered commemorative series carry the French and Soviet flags on the dial.

Note: It doesn't say 'Limited Edition' or give any indication of numbers involved. 

As to the format and extent of the numbers in this commemorative series, here are a couple of examples to start off ....

My most recent 'Mission Flags' Spationaute III (which came with the C.G.H. instruction sheets) has by far the worst case-back.

Most of the engraving has been obliterated.  But the numbers are still legible. Here's the eBay seller's photo - inverted:

The etched commerative series number 066 is visible at the bottom of the case-back, between the two removal tool holes and under the word STAINLESS. That would appear to be the normal default position, but it can depend upon the alignment of the case-back engraving relative to the removal holes, as you'll see with my next example ....

Here are two shots of the case-back of the one I purchased off www.2ememain.be, which is the best such example in my collection:

Here, the stamped commemorative number 166 is to the right of one of the removal tool holes, rather than in between them.

Here's a Q&D shot of my my third example (which I've just taken) with a quite badly worn, but still legible case-back:

On this one, the commemorative number 032, which is the lowest number I've seen so far, is stamped in the optimum postion.

Unfortunately not every seller who's offered such a Spationaute III for sale in the last 4 years has included a case-back photo ....

But the highest number I've seen to date was on the case-back of that one with rusty hands, on eBay in November last year:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262699048628

.... which was purchased, fitted with a hideous spoon type bracelet and subsequently re-sold by French eBay seller tombilibom.

Again, the commemorative number 228 is stamped in the optimum position, directly under the word STAINLESS.

As you can probably gather, I'm kicking myself now for not having bought it at the time (for 66 Euros) - if only for the case-back. 

Either to replace the badly worn case-back of 066, or to have added faux authenticity to my 'bitza' watch. Double fail on my part. 

Ignoring the slight inconsistency in application (etching or stamping, with different sized fonts) and relative placement of the commemorative numbers, is there any pattern to them emerging ? Well, with the minimal data we've got to go on, No not really. 

They're all based on first year production watches, with 1 prefix serial numbers (as I'd expected), but these are certainly are not the earliest production Spationaute III's manufactured by C.G.H.. I have at least two Spationaute III's in my collection with the alternative tricoleur Y Yema logo with much lower serial numbers: 1 112 and 1 130 - ironically, both of which have pristine case-backs. 

Here's the data so far (I'll continue to edit this list, as more sightings / information become available):

Series #  vs  Serial #

   014            1 035

   032            1 433

   036            1 430

   066            1 330

   087            1 324

   166            1 663

   228            1 878

   232            1 843

As you can see from the above, there's already a couple of anomalies, in terms of serial number order (and I've double-checked).

Simple maths will also tell you that they weren't continually produced in the same batch and were likely pulled from the normal manufacturing line, to be fitted with the Misson Flags dial and given a commemorative series number. I'm not about to start going through the hundreds of images of Spationaute III's I have in my photo folders, but here's one that may be familiar to readers:

It's from the first eBay listing, from August 2012, or their NOS Yema Spationaute III's, by US seller izeldor (who, back in the day, were Yema's official US importers / distributors). That serial number 1 539 falls in between the serial numbers listed above.

PS - I'm not going to bother posting any more copy and pastes from the Jean-Loup Chrétien's Spationaute III thread ....

In hindsight, it's abundantly clear I'd deluded myself into believing my 'Mission Flags' dial was something uniquely rare.

I've just read though it once again and found another horrendous incorrect assumption I'd made, back in October 2012.

It clearly was viable to produce a second version of the dial, with the Mission Flags, for sale in these commemorative versions.

However, I partly stand by what I wrote (or at least inferred) - you can rest assured Yema didn't export any of them to the States ....

Not with that 'commie' Soviet flag on the dial !

O.K., so this is technically for this forum ....

But speaking as I was about commemorative (limited) editions, it may interest readers with astral aspirations, to learn that Yema have just introduced a new space watch. It's not called a Spationaute, nor named after any mission (as the 7T32 models were).

Instead Yema have gone back to their old naming convention (think Flygraf, Landgraf, Rallygraf, etc.) and called it the Spacegraf.

Except it's not a chronograph. 

http://yema-montres.squarespace.com/spacegraf

It was designed (I use that term advisedly) to commemorate the current spaceflight of the tenth French astronaut, Thomas Pesquet.

Hence the red X on the dial.

The movement is a 'swiss' quartz Ronda Cal. 515.24. There are a few variations: day / date or GMT / date; black or white dials, priced between 349 / 399 Euros and a ludicrously sky high 1000 / 1050 Euros.  The latter prices being for the commemorative limited editions (of 200 each) which have allegedly been 'in space'.

Not at the sharp end of a Soyuz  mind you, nor anywhere near the ISS, but sent up in a weather balloon, FFS ! 

Order your Spacegraf Special Edition Stratosphere limited to 200 pieces now.

YEMA PROPOSES YOU A UNIQUE EXPERIENCE:

Your Spacegraf will fly a Stratospheric flight using a specific balloon that will reach about 35 km above the Earth.

Each watch will be numbered and engraved with the date, altitude and temperature recorded in flight,

and delivered with a stratospheric flight certificate.

A link to download the video of the flight will be sent to you by email.

* Each session takes place as follows:

- Launch in the stratosphere of a meteorological balloon

- 20 watches are placed in the stratospheric balloon

- A camera films the flight and its evolution in the stratosphere

- A data logger measures altitude, Temperature and pressure

Only announced a couple of days ago, let's just say it's not exactly getting rave reviews, particularly on ForumaMontres. 

http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t208896-nouvelle-yema-spacegraf

Anyway, the reason I thought to add it onto this thread (rather than post something in the Members' Lounge forum section) ....

was seeing this, prompted me to browse the latest iteration of Yema's website - particularly the re-vamped 'Historique' page:

http://yema-montres.squarespace.com/#histoire

I was hoping to spot some mention of the Spationaute III. There isn't any, as such, except this. Blink and you'll miss it. 

Zooming in on that small photo of a Spationaute III, it's not even a 'Mission Flags' version - just a normal tricoleur Y logo'd dial. 

Seiko7A38 at April 17, 2017 at 8:13 AM

However, I partly stand by what I wrote (or at least inferred) - you can rest assured Yema didn't export any of them to the States ....

Not with that 'commie' Soviet flag on the dial !

Ahem. That doesn't necessarily mean that the odd one didn't manage to find its way across The Pond. This one turned up in Southern California last month.

The manufacturing serial number is 1 843 and the series number is 232.

That's now the highest 'Limited Edition' number I've seen to date. I've added those numbers onto my brief list in my penulitimate post. Once again this creates a slight anomaly in terms of numerical order.

Paging Monsieur Le Croisé. I've only just seen your thread on ForumAmontres.

Until today, I hadn't realized your Yema Spationaute III was a 'Cadran Drapeaux'.

I remember this watch from when it was listed on eBay and Chronomania back in November 2015.

I need your case-back serial and series numbers for 'Ze Liste'. S'il vous plaît.

"Eagle eye" Seiko7A38!

Here are the S/N   014 1 035

 beaucoup Cyril !

Those are the lowest pair of numbers yet seen. Duly added to the list above. 

Googling images on Yema Spationaute III, as I do from time to time, yesterday evening I spotted another 'Cadran Drapeaux' recently posted in an Instagram feed.

https://www.pictosee.com/p/2145152671338482584_13024344289

Here's the original larger version of the photo:

The poster, Alain Lacotte is a watch repairer based in Morteau, Doubs, France.

I couldn't see it offered for sale on his website: https://www.montres-ouvrage.com - so I emailed him. Transpires it's a customer's watch, that was in his workshop for refurbishment, two weeks ago. But I don't give up that easily. 

I replied to Alain, asking if he'd forward my enquiry to the watch's owner, which he kindly did. This afternoon the owner of the watch, Gilles, promptly replied with the series / serial numbers 087 and 1 324, attaching the photo below (amongst others). 

 beaucoup, Gilles !

I've added his Spationaute III's numbers into the table in my earlier post. As you can see, it creates another slight anomaly in the order of manufacturing serial numbers.

I've spotted another Yema Spationaute III 'Cadran Drapeux', posted in a thread on Forumamontres, which was started a week or so ago.

http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t238795-yema-spationaute

The watch has a few faults as the result of a battery leak and I'm trying to talk the OP through a diagnosis. In the meantime, I've asked him if he'd be so kind as to provide the serial / series numbers off his case-back, for inclusion in 'Ze Liste'. 

As he'd promised, earlier this evening, the Forumamontres poster kindly PM'd me this photo of his Spationaute III's case-back.

 beaucoup, Armand !

His watch's serial / series numbers are 1 430 and 036 - very close to one of my own examples (1 433 and 032), but perversely (as I'm already accustomed to) not quite in 'correct' numerical order. They were obviously manufactured in the same batch. I've duly added them into the table in my earlier post.

This post is technically  for this thread, because it isn't about a Spationaute III 'Cadran Drapeaux', but it has significant relevance to my my earlier statement:

They're all based on first year production watches, with 1 prefix serial numbers (as I'd expected), but these are certainly are not the earliest production Spationaute III's manufactured by C.G.H.. I have at least two Spationaute III's in my collection with the alternative tricoleur Y Yema logo with much lower serial numbers: 1 112 and 1 130 - ironically, both of which have pristine case-backs.

I'm a member of many different international watch forums. Some I only visit very infrequently, due to lack of time. One such is the Italian forum Orologi & Passioni. Yesterday when I tried to login to it, I was informed that my long since unused ID had been 'retired'. I managed to get back in there though.

I stumbled across this thread, started in the middle of September, where the OP was seeking a valuation on a Yema Spationaute III he was considering purchasing.

Note the serial number: 1 004 !  Now that is a very early production watch !