Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

As we've discussed before - and mostly agreed (apart from George a.k.a. 'garacs1', who likes fixing them) Seiko's 7Txx range of quartz chronograph movements weren't really designed to be repaired, but thrown away and replaced. The problem is, there's a finite supply of these things and they're apparently running out. 

Firstly let me put a stake in the ground and list all the variants of 7T32 that I know of - at present.

There's the original 7T32A Seiko movement used in early Seiko 7T32's. You don't see many, indeed the only photo I can find of one was posted by Rob Benham in his: Well, the most appropriately named thread when you're using a 4lb hammer.

Clearly, from the design of the back-plate quite different to the later Seiko 7T32B movement, which most of us are familiar with ....

So probably best avoided - unless you're looking to replace like with like, for 'originality's sake. 

Then there's the familiar S.Epson Corp. (also stamped Shoijiri Ltd.) Y182B movement used by Yema, Pulsar, Lorus, Alba, etc.

While googling looking for alternatives recently, I re-discovered the S.Epson Corp. YM52A (again can be stamped Shoijiri Ltd.).

See this thread on the old Network54 SCWF: http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/thread/1111275361 - YM52A = 7T32 !

Although this has an 'A' suffix, it shares the later back-plate stamping of the Seiko Time Corp. / S. Epson Corp. 7T32B and Y182B.

This variant of the 7T32 movement is generally found in obscure French brands like Beauchat and the Camel Trophy chrono's.

There's the Orient Watch Co. Ltd version - the HFA00 as used in Orient and Racer HFA's, discussed elsewhere in this forum section.

Lastly, as I discovered recently, there's also the JEPIC Corp. branded version - the Z7A as used in the Puma (built by Orient). 

Therein lies my problem. The movement in my Puma Z7A001-70 has suffered from what I deem irreparable battery acid damage.

Initially I started looking for a NOS replacement 7T32B / Y182B movement on eBay. Yes - they're still out there, but the prices ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111603757250

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141585708587

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141583560860

Note that the uppermost one sold for the $130Au Buy-it-Now price too ! 

There are of course other ways to skin a cat - by finding a working 7T32 donor watch. I started off looking on eBay at Seiko 7T32's between 99 pence (spares or repairs junk) and 50 Quid. Problem is there is so much crap out there, you're not even guaranteed of getting a fully working movement at that price. While I was searching, earlier this week, I saw a few with 'alarm not working'; another with the same problem as my Puma Z7A (where the hour hand wouldn't advance past midnight), lots described as 'probably just needs a new battery' - including one which, when you zoomed in on the seller's photo of the movement, clearly had the same blackened battery acid damaged PCB battery connectors ! 

The sensible thing to do instead, is search for other cheaper less desirable brands, using the Y182 movement - like Pulsar and Lorus.

Indeed there are a couple of such helpful posts, stating just that, in in this thread on SCWF from last November:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japanese-watch-discussion-forum/135282.html entitled: Is there a 7T32B replacement ?

 .... including this one:

Keep an eye out for older Pulsar and Lorus chronographs containing the Y182 movement. This is a 7T32B in all but name and is totally interchangeable and you can easily swap over the top plate carrying the caliber number that holds the battery from the 7T32 to retain originality. The Lorus and Pulsar models are generally much cheaper than a Seiko badged version.

That wasn't news to Yours Truly. 

Quote: "The problem is, there's a finite supply of these things and they're apparently running out."

And this is because I like repairing them, Paul... Actually lately I noticed too that on one side prices of "junk" watches were rising, and availability of movements in good condition was getting very low. I do have some spares (parts, not complete movements) of 7T32 movements, and judging from your picture, a PCB and the battery positive should be the only parts (if the PCB is completely damaged) to replace. I bought a multimeter some time ago too, so now I can also test the coils. Thanks to this, I was able to repair some 7T32's that were in pretty bad condition due to battery acid leakage, just like yours.

Anyway, good luck in your search for a replacement movement, I will keep an eye open and if I find something, I will send you a note.

George.

Hi, George. Thought you might read this thread sooner or later. 

By the way - I forgot to update the thread with my 'replacement' 7T32 movement solution.

On Sunday I bought a brand new Pulsar Y182: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171692447408

Just 30 Quid (+ postage).  Bloody ridiculous when you compare that to the prices being asked for NOS 7T32 movements. 

Hi Paul, I had been busy, so not showing up in the forum a lot lately as I would like, but I just couldn't leave this pass, could I? Nice you've found a replacement already.

Regards

George

George. Regarding your:  .... a PCB and the battery positive should be the only parts (if the PCB is completely damaged)

If you'd seen what I'd also written about this Puma Z7A001-70 in the Rare and unusual 7T32-xxxx variants spotted thread ....

As received, it was showing the same time as in the seller's photo - approximately 5:20 - so naively I just assumed a flat battery. 

Before I opened it up, I'd had a play with the hands. When I pulled the crown out and tried to wind it on, the hour hand wouldn't advance beyond 12 (be it midnight or noon) - it slipped - but the minute hand still rotated. The date was also stuck resolutely on 21.

There actually was no battery fitted. Closer inspection reveals that the movement had suffered from a leaking battery at some point - and that the end of the PCB where the battery contacts attach is just brittle blackened dust.

You'd realize the JEPIC Corp. movement has other issues besides just the acid-damaged PCB - with the gear train / date wheel. 

I've had to re-think my earlier plan. 

The Pulsar Y182-7000 'potential movement donor' arrived yesterday. Whereas appearance-wise, it isn't quite my cup of tea, with it's sort of pseudo-military look, it's not an unattractive watch - in almost pristine condition. Even though I only paid 30 Quid for it - and it would effectively yield a NOS Y182 movement, now I've received it, I really don't have the heart to break it up. It's just too nice. 

What I really should have been looking for was something working, but hideous looking, that I wouldn't have any qualms about.

Yesterday evening I found one: another Pulsar, this time a Y182-6B20 - and it's stunningly hideous. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281616247428

As you can see, the seller is yeti.watches - a UK eBay seller whose (apparent lack of) abilities I've previously criticized elsewhere - and under normal circumstances would avoid buying from. Just take a minute to read the condition from the item specifics, FFS ....

The yeti.watches Pulsar Y182-6B20 donor arrived yesterday. It yielded a slightly grubby Shiojiri Ltd. Y182 movement which appears to work as described above. Yeti's seemingly insurmountable problem with the top R.H. pusher not actuating the chronograph was easily solved. It was simply down to lack of travel - the end of the pusher shaft wasn't reaching the switch lever. Yup, you guessed it - the pusher cup and inside the pusher button were clogged up with years of solidified muck - and the spring had become coil-bound. Took me about 10 minutes to sort the pusher, but I shalln't be bothering to clean up the rest of the filth on the case and bracelet.

Now I've confirmed full operation, hopefully I'll be able to get the movement swap with my Puma Z7A done this coming weekend.

I wouldn't want to give readers the impression that I'm advocating wholesale destruction of old Pulsar Y182's as movement donors .... but I did have another one on my eBay watching page - just in case:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221704626846

That one sold for £19 on Sunday evening - again a LOT cheaper than most equivalent Seiko 7T32's.

A had bit of spare time this morning, so I thought I'd have a quick look at the two donor / recipient 7T32 modules and while I was at it, swap over their backplates, in readiness for doing the dial / spacer / hand swap at the weekend.

Here's the Pulsar Y182 with the Shiojiri Ltd. stamped back-plate removed (simply undo 2 screws) - squeaky clean underneath:

As it was all working fine, I had no wish to delve any deeper. Here's a close-up shot of Yeti's 'problem' pusher / switch lever area.

However, I was interested to learn the extent of the battery acid damage to the Puma Z7A, so I also took the skeleton retaining plate off that one - 4 smaller screws and clips around the edges. George and Simon may well be smiling to themselves, but this is as deep as I've ever been inside any 7Txx movement before - and have no intention of going any further. Hate the damned things ! 

Here's a close-up of the battery acid damage to the PCB. Not extensive, but it's obviously got to the IC as well as the battery terminals.

Here's the JEPIC Corp. Z7A backplate swapped over onto the Shiojiri Ltd. Y182 movement (still in the Pulsar case for the time being).

If only you'd be brave enough (just kidding) to remove the PCB, you'd be able to check the coils with a multimeter. I strongly advise to do so, Paul, I just fixed a 7T32 movement replacing one of the coils that had a slighlty lower resistance than the prescribed in the technical manual. To test the coils you do not need to remove the back plate, but to replace one you will.

I guess you have to call me strange then too, because I cannot get enough of 7T32 powered Seiko's. In the last few years I have managed to hoard enough "repair" 7T32 powered watches to build a nice little inventory of 7T32 parts. This has also alllowed me to take advantage of some of the 7T32 "sample" watches that I find attractive and activate them into full functioning watches. The really nice thing is about 75% of the Seiko 7T32 "sample" watches have most of the 7T32 movement in them. Especially some of the most important parts like coils circuit boards, battery contacts even the alarm buzzers. Though for some unknown reason someone at Seiko who was in charge of creating the "sample' watches decided to be a real w*nker and glue the main cover on right at the point where it contacts the leads on the coils. This makes it impossible to remove the cover without doing damage to the contacts on the coil and it also gets glue all over the circut board ruining that also. Thankfully most "sample" watches do not have the main movement cover glued on. These parts you can harvest basically make the cost of the sample watch free as these coils and circut boards can be used to repair other 7T32 watches with "free" parts!

Strangly enough, one 7T32 "sample watch I purchased actually had a Y182 movement inside it not a 7T32? Thankfully the cover was not glued so I was able to harvest some free Y182 coils and circuit board.

The world would be a poorer place, if we all liked (and collected) the same thing, Michael. I cannot get enough Seiko 7A38's (especially other makes of watches powered by the re-branded versions of the movement). The fact that I've picked up a couple of (re-branded) 7T32's in the last 12 months was more of an accidental relapse. When I stumbled across them, I was hunting for Orient J39's and Puma Y19's. You see I bought my first 7T32 by default in a job lot - on eBay Italy in January 2009.

It was a gold -tone 7T32-6A50, which came in a job lot with a two-tone 7A38-7270. From memory, they cost 60 Euros the pair.

Both were described as needing new batteries. At that time, I didn't even change my own batteries, so I took them along to my local watchmaker. The movement inside the 7T32 had suffered from a similar battery acid attack to my recently acquired Puma Z7A. I asked my watchmaker what I should do with it - his response was something like: it's not worth p!ssing about with - inferior quality movement to the 7A38 - stick it back on eBay and get what you can for it; which indeed I did (as a spares or repair) and got $25 for it.

I've still got the two-tone 7A38-7270. Yes I've bought and sold a couple more 7T32's since then, but the watchmaker was right. 

A week later than planned, earlier today I did the dirty deed - fitted the ex-Pulsar Y182 donor movement into the Puma Z7A. 

As I'd never so much as swapped movements in a 7Txx (of any kind) before, let alone taken a 7Txx movement apart, I had a look on YouTube for inspiration. Not one of George's, but this video by the Watch Repair Guy (Mark Lovick), swapping a 7T59 movement.

It's well worth watching if you haven't already seen it, although he does skirt around showing re-fitting the main hand set. 

Obviously slightly more fiddly than swapping hands on a 7A38 movement, but what concerned me was that on a 7Txx you're fitting the hour hand onto a (dark grey) plastic spigot. Here's the Pulsar Y182 donor movement stripped out, ready to be re-fitted:

I'm pleased to say that it all went reasonably well  - O.K. I'll admit I had problems seating the hour hand first time  .... 

and that when I came to test it, the chrono' 30 minute sub-dial hand fell off because I hadn't pressed it on hard enough. 

But right now it's sat merrily ticking pulsing away on the worktop and everything appears to be working as it should. 

I haven't bothered taking any photos of the re-built Puma, because it would look exactly the same as the photos I posted earlier, in the Rare and unusual 7T32-xxxx variants spotted thread 3 weeks ago - 'cos the date is still on 21 (except now it's not stuck there). The other reason is that I haven't yet sourced a suitable 19mm strap for it. The cheap and nasty 20mm poo-coloured leather strap it came with will be consigned to the spare strap drawer - and probably never see the light of day again. Right now I'm toying with the idea of a Hadley Roma MS834 - 19mm; black with white stitching - except that Weston Watch Straps are currently out of stock. 

I had to smile yesterday. I'd added one of those NOS 7T32 movements listed by the French eBay seller to my watching page.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141605278606

The second bidder sniped it in the closing seconds - for 96 Euros !  

My second-hand 7T32 movement swap ended up costing me about about a Tenner. 

Nothing has been wasted (so far). The NOS Pulsar Y182-7000 'donor' I bought first and the case, bracelet, dial and hands, etc. from the Y182-6B20 are currently winging their way across the Pond to a US-based Pulsar collector who recently joined this forum. 

GeorgeClarkson at March 13, 2015 at 9:28 AM

If only you'd be brave enough (just kidding) to remove the PCB, you'd be able to check the coils with a multimeter. I strongly advise to do so, Paul, I just fixed a 7T32 movement replacing one of the coils that had a slighlty lower resistance than the prescribed in the technical manual. To test the coils you do not need to remove the back plate, but to replace one you will.

George. It's not a matter of being brave (or foolhardy) enough. 

I just don't have the time nor especially the inclination to p!ss about with these movements.

Anyway, just to shut you up - I removed the PCB - and as expected, it is completely toast in that area.

Actually, underneath the PCB it looks reasonably clean. The coils appear to be untouched - although I haven't bothered testing them.

But I do wish you'd read and take on board what I've written.  Once again, I'll repeat - this movement has other issues besides:

Before I opened it up, I'd had a play with the hands. When I pulled the crown out and tried to wind it on, the hour hand wouldn't advance beyond 12 (be it midnight or noon) - it slipped - but the minute hand still rotated. The date was also stuck resolutely on 21.

Indeed, when I lifted the Puma dial off the JEPIC Corp. Z7A movement, one of the dial feet was very reluctant to come out. There was some light tarnishing on the back of the brass dial plate in that area - and on the date dial guard and edge of the date wheel.

This is the reason the date wheel wouldn't turn - a concretion of battery acid deposits on its underside:

The battery leak appears to have run right through the movement, top to bottom in that corner, indicating that the watch was left face down. Here are the (other) reasons for the slipping hour hand (one broken tooth) and inabilty to change the date using the quickset:

Like I say, I can't be arsed to dig any deeper (from either side), but I don't expect it'll look any prettier in the intermediate layer. 

If you want this junk movement to play with (and possibly prove me wrong) or just for spares, PM me your address and I'll get it in the post to you (as a bag of bits) next week sometime. 

Everyone has their favorites and Seiko has plenty of different movements to have fun with. I can understand if you don't have much interest in the watch why you would not bother repairing the movement. Though the one thing that is great if you do love the 7T32 movements is just about nothing goes to waste even when you buy a parts watch unless it is completely trashed in every way. If I were you I would pull those coils and put a meter on them. It only takes a minute and if they are all good, I'm sure if you put them up on the Bay a set of 4 good coils with the plates and rotors should yield you an easy tenner.

That was one serious battery leak. With that much leakage you would almost have to think someone poked a hole in battery when trying to install it improperly. If you are not familiar with the 7T32 most will pry the battery out and then fight to jamb the new battery in which sometimes involves sharp instruments. The proper way is to remove the two screws like you showed in your breakdown. Once you do that the new battery just drops right in. I think this is why we see so many 7T32 with leaky batteries.

You got my address in a PM, Paul. I do read what you write, but I always like to ask for that bit more information...

And I concur with Killsnapz: that was a massive battery leak.

George has documented his subsequent strip down and re-build of the '7T32' movement that I couldn't be bothered with, using a series of YouTube videos, in this thread in the Workshop section: Deep inside a 7T32 (or Shiojiri Y182B) movement

Strictly speaking, George's thread title is a slight mis-nomer, in that what I actually sent him, partly disassembled, was the JEPIC Corp. Z7A movement out of the Puma and just the Shiojiri Ltd. Y182B stamped back-plate off the donor movement, from that Pulsar Y182. 

Paul is as always correct, and I ask him publicly to eventually change the title, as he deems fit, please.  I added the correct information on the videos description.

Seiko7A38 at March 21, 2015 at 12:29 PM

I haven't bothered taking any photos of the re-built Puma, because it would look exactly the same as the photos I posted earlier, in the Rare and unusual 7T32-xxxx variants spotted thread 3 weeks ago - 'cos the date is still on 21 (except now it's not stuck there). The other reason is that I haven't yet sourced a suitable 19mm strap for it. The cheap and nasty 20mm poo-coloured leather strap it came with will be consigned to the spare strap drawer - and probably never see the light of day again. Right now I'm toying with the idea of a Hadley Roma MS834 - 19mm; black with white stitching - except that Weston Watch Straps are currently out of stock. 

Just as a little footnote to finish off this thread ....

In the end I gave up on Alan Wrathall of Weston Watch straps. A month later, he still didn't have any 19mm black Hadley Roma MS834 straps in stock - despite promises (and being an official UK Hadley Roma Stockist). He still hasn't corrected the error on his website. Complete waste of time.  So I instead, I ordered one from Holben's Fine Watchbands in the States - and it arrived within a week ! Finally got around to fitting it lunchtime today. It might not have been my first choice (I'm not a big fan of mock croc' grain straps), but it doesn't look too bad a match for the watch head:

The stitching is silvery (rather than 'White' as described), so I'm still on the hunt for something better matching. But it'll do for now.