Heads Up on yet another 7A38 Franken(s) - Part 3 !!

[Seiko7A38]

A few months ago, I set up a couple of saved searches on Chrono24, mostly to keep tabs on some of the ridiculous prices being asked for 7A38's over there. Although it's nowhere near as popular as eBay, I usually get notified of a couple of new search results each week. The notification for this horrid Franken, listed by a Spanish seller, asking a ludicrous $365, landed in my email inbox this morning:

https://www.chrono24.com/seiko/chronogr ... 165684.htm

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It's supposed to be a 7A38-701B - and judging by the yellow minute ring and case-back stampings it probably once was. The 'Vulcan' is best known for its yellow dial. This Franken is fitted with a gold 710L dial and movement, presumably donated by a gold-tone 7A38-7190. The knackered bracelet fitted is a non-original generic replacement. Two words:

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[neucommer]

So, I wrote (what I thought) was a pretty thoughtful reply to your disparaging post and yet, somehow it was deleted. Shocker.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time; maybe I didn't hit "Submit"?

In any event, if this one disappears then we both know it's just a one way pissing match between you and I, and for what reason I can't land on but whatever.

You obviously have a problem with me and how I approach this hobby, I like to restore and fix otherwise ruined Seikos, often they are the 7A28/7A38 series. I like the process, I don't need to keep hundreds of watches in cases for me to never look at. I have a personal collection that rotates quite a bit as my mantra is: If I'm not wearing it, let it go for someone else to enjoy. If I restore a watch and list it, so what? let the market decide what it's worth. I don't get the hate, to be honest. Life is too short to be so freakin' hung up on what others do with their property.

As I posted before, I'm hardly in the black at this point. You act like I'm making real money here- guess what...I'm not. Parts, tools and watches cost money, and I spend a bunch more than I make. I wish I was a better businessman, but that's the reality. This is my hobby and my obsession- you want me to stop? Tell my wife what II'm really spending here and that will be the end of it

That white dial Royal Oak? $385. After losing 15% on ebay seller fees, do you really think this is super profitable for me given how much work I do?

This post is a good bit shorter than the last- maybe you'll leave this one up this time? I welcome the discussion- please tell me what grinds your gears so much? I'm completely honest about what I sell so I gotta ask, yet again, W.T.F?

[Seiko7A38]

Yes, you're right. I deleted your previous post, because I found it offensive. I came very close to deleting this one, too.

As you've gathered from the tone of my posts, I particularly dislike what you are doing. You are creating Franken 7A38's with the deliberate intention of immediately selling them for profit, however little you might claim that to be, rather than ever considering keeping them for your own personal enjoyment. You misleadingly call them 'Prototypes'. There are already plenty enough mis-represented Franken watches out there to trap the unwary punter, without you adding to the number. Your customers may buy them with their eyes open, but what happens when they decide to sell them on ?

You are too fond of bead-blasting as a means of disguising blemishes or wear. You are one of a few eBay sellers still using the antiquated Private Listing - bidder identity protected auction, which is and always has been the perfect cover for shill bidding. Your auctions regularly show evidence, not only by the prices achieved, the number of bids placed but also by certain repeated bidding patterns. As was the case with your most recent effort, which sold last week for $382 after 32 bids (by 10 bidders).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203990019918

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[Seiko7A38]

This hideous Franken, masquerading as a 7A38-7069 'Project' watch was listed by a Spanish eBay seller in the early hours of yesterday morning, with a laughable Buy-it-Now price of $198. The scabby 701L dial is from a gold-tone 7A38-7000. Note also the non-original crown and 30 minute sub-dial hand.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PROJECT-TO-F ... 4601017602

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As soon as I saw the listing I smelled a rat. This sort of Franken, with moisture damaged dials are typical of the botched watches that come out of backstreet workshops in the Philippines. The style of photos in this listing are very similar to those used by: jfm_watches, , restoredwatches and nippontime , who are all the same person (John Dizon from Davao City). Note for someone allegedly located in Barcelona, Spain, they use US Dollars, rather than Euros. I checked their profile. What a surprise !!

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[Seiko7A38]

At the risk of almost repeating myself (from only 3 weeks ago) ....

US eBay seller redline76 (a.k.a. Warren) continues to churn out his bead-blasted Franken 7A38's, complete with all the usual flimflam, hype and half-truths we've come to expect. Last night he listed another 7A38-702x Franken. He calls it a 7A38 702H Royal Oak 'Prototype'. In fact it's actually based on the almost identical 7A38-702A as can be seen by from the case-back stamping.

For a man who claims this is not his business, Warren is rapidly becoming the world's most prolific 7A38 Franken builder. His latest creation, which appeared on eBay late last night is again based on a bead-blasted two-tone 7A38-702A (again, not a -702H as stated). The familiar dark grey 702L grid pattern dial is from a 7A38-701A. The hands are a mixture from various sources (a 7A38-701A would normally only be fitted with one of this style of sub-dial hand). If I'm not mistaken, the chapter ring which duplicates the minute marks, is from a 7A28-7039 / -703B. His polishing of the sides of the bezel is a bit extreme, almost encroaching on the dummy rivets. Perhaps in a failed effort to replicate the 'Royal Oak' look.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dec-1984-VTG ... 4019157113

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In his customary manner, Warren calls this one a 'Royal Oak Offshore Prototype'.
Squint hard and you might just be able to discern a vague resemblance. Or perhaps not.

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[Seiko7A38]

This innocuous-looking listing for a two-tone 7A38-7020 came up in my Chrono24 search notification email this morning.
My initial reaction was that, at $510, it was typically ludicrously over-priced for the well-worn condition, as most 7A38's listed on Chrono24 usually are. But then I had a closer looks at the photos. Turns out that it's a very subtle Franken.

https://www.chrono24.com/seiko/quarz-ch ... 432663.htm

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In a couple of the photos, the dial colour looks almost the correct shade of light grey. But then I noticed that it's missing SPORTS 100 from underneath the Chronograph script. It's been fitted with the light grey 710L dial (and presumably hands and movement) from a two-tone 7A38-7280, like this. The seller's description isn't quite as 'honest' as translated.

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[Seiko7A38]

For those unfamiliar with Yema Spationaute III variants, this is a particularly deceptive franken / bitza. The case-back and white dial (which appears to be in poor condition) are from the two-tone 38mm reduced version, model # N80A696. The blue inlaid bezel, case with stainless pushers, crown and polished stainless hour, minute and sweep hands are from the blue dialed 38mm reduced model # N80A66. The ensemble is topped off by a cheap and nasty olive NATO strap.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/montre-YEMA- ... 4472115170

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After umpteen re-listings and a series of reductions to 450 Euros, that Yema Spationaute III 38mm Franken appears to have finally sold at the weekend for the opening bid price. Still way too much for the poor non-original condition, IMHO.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384994140946

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Note I wrote 'appears to have finally sold'. I don't think I bothered posting this at the time, but it theoretically sold once before at the beginning of June. The buyer obviously came to their senses.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384909702451

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[Seiko7A38]

For a man who claims this is not his business, Warren is rapidly becoming the world's most prolific 7A38 Franken builder. His latest creation, which appeared on eBay late last night is again based on a bead-blasted two-tone 7A38-702A (again, not a -702H as stated). The familiar dark grey 702L grid pattern dial is from a 7A38-701A. The hands are a mixture from various sources (a 7A38-701A would normally only be fitted with one of this style of sub-dial hand). If I'm not mistaken, the chapter ring which duplicates the minute marks, is from a 7A28-7039 / -703B. His polishing of the sides of the bezel is a bit extreme, almost encroaching on the dummy rivets. Perhaps in a failed effort to replicate the 'Royal Oak' look.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dec-1984-VTG ... 4019157113

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Remiss of me, I appear to have overlooked posting the result for Warren's most recent 7A38-702X Franken eBay auction (sorry 'Royal Oak Offshore Prototype' ). It sold for $425 after 17 bids. Presumably the person who bought it did so with their eyes open (he's also a regular YouTube Vlogger and evidently knows a thing or two about watches).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204019157113

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What reminded me was it popped up on Instagram yesterday, in a wrist shot posted by the Kuwaiti buyer tokei_ronin.



By an amusing coincidence, what appears to be Warren's previous 7A38-702X Franken also popped up on Instagram.



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203990019918

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[Seiko7A38]

Subtitled: Who do they think the're fooling ? This horrible Franken, based on a well-worn 7A38-704A, was listed this afternoon by an Italian seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of €350 Euros. In case you don't recognise the charcoal 601L dial, it's normally found in the black chrome 7A38-6010 'diver', as are the silver hands. How they arrived at 7A38-701A (per the title) is beyond me.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7a38-7 ... 3910781795

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[Seiko7A38]

After umpteen re-listings and a series of reductions to 450 Euros, that Yema Spationaute III 38mm Franken appears to have finally sold at the weekend for the opening bid price. Still way too much for the poor non-original condition, IMHO.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384994140946

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Evidently it didn't sell (for a second time) in July. Just over a year from when the would-be French seller first listed it on eBay, at the end of October 2021 (see my original post), it's back again, re-listed as yet another 7-day auction. This time he's reduced the opening bid price from his original risible €600 Euros to €250 Euros. That's probably low enough to tempt a few mug punters into bidding on this bitza / franken. Personally I still wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YEMA-SPATION ... 5206084856

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[Seiko7A38]

The French eBay seller ended that re-listing for the Yema Spationaute III '38mm Reduced' Franken a couple of days early - as item no longer available. Hopefully that'll be the last we've seen of it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385206084856

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[Seiko7A38]

Subtitled: Who do they think the're fooling ? This horrible Franken, based on a well-worn 7A38-704A, was listed this afternoon by an Italian seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of €350 Euros. In case you don't recognise the charcoal 601L dial, it's normally found in the black chrome 7A38-6010 'diver', as are the silver hands. How they arrived at 7A38-701A (per the title) is beyond me.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7a38-7 ... 3910781795

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Hard to believe, but that 7A38-704A based Franken appears to have sold in the early hours of this morning for the €350 Euros Buy-it-Now price. The mind boggles.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403910781795

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[Seiko7A38]

Here's a subtle 7A38 Franken to kick off the New Year, which is almost bound to catch somebody unawares. It was listed yesterday evening by a UK seller as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of £45. The photos aren't the sharpest, but if you zoom in and squint hard, it's not difficult to discern that this 7A38-7069 is fitted with the silvery-white 710L dial from either a stainless 7A38-7190 or 7A38-7280. The seller's title and description is vague and makes no mention of this. It's also a private listing - bidder identity protected auction, meaning it's also susceptible to shill bidding.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-Quartz ... 4881971281

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I've only bothered to upload two of the seller's 15 photos. As I wrote earlier, they're not the sharpest and all sorts of different sizes. I chose to upload that particular photo of the case-back, not because it's the sharpest (there are others that show the serial number 420185 clearer), but because of the improved clarity of the word [SAMPLE] in the centre. Yes this Franken watch was actually built from an almost complete 7A38-7069 SAA028J salesman's sample case, which appeared on eBay in January 2015. Here's a few photos from that listing, including the scuffed case-back showing the same serial number 420185.

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So whoever bought that salesman's sample case had evidently decided to take the easier route of slotting in an existing (complete but incorrect) working 710L dial / movement, thereby creating this Franken, rather than use it to build up or restore a pukka 7A38-7069. Bit of a waste, IMHO, because the resultant watch isn't particularly attractive.

[Seiko7A38]

Before I was even halfway through composing the above post, I began to get that uncanny feeling of Déjà Vu, (although I hadn't previously made the connection with the salesman's sample case). The same Franken had appeared on eBay back in April 2019, listed as a 7-day auction by another UK seller goldentimes111, who, incidentally, currently has a less than perfect 96.5% feedback rating. Presumably he sold it to the current seller, although I failed to record how much it went for.

I posted about it on page 9 of the old archived forum's Heads Up on yet another 7A38 Franken(s) - Part 2 !! thread .

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I've only bothered uploading two of the previous seller's photos (all eight are embedded in the old forum thread). The second of his photos shows the 710L dial more clearly than the current seller's photos and of course the case-back serial number 420185 matches. However you can't see [SAMPLE] stamped on the case-back. Presumably the current seller bought it unawares. However, from his vague description I suspect he may have since realized the watch is a Franken. Fitting a better quality strap (a Hirsch 'Ranger') and adding a random Seiko presentation box doesn't make it any less so.

[Seiko7A38]

On 2nd January @ 13:20, the UK eBay seller added this amendment to his description, stating the watch was a Franken:

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Presumably that served as adequate warning to potential bidders. At that stage, the bidding had reached £70, but there were no retractions. The auction ended on Sunday evening with the franken 7A38-7069 selling for £145.99 after 10 bids.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144881971281

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[Seiko7A38]

This appallingly hideous 7A38 Franken was listed yesterday by an Indonesian eBay seller, with an absolutely ridiculous 'think of a number' Buy-it-Now price of $379. Normally I wouldn't bother commenting on something so obvious as this, but I felt compelled to express my revulsion for this particularly shiny polished turd. Thankfully (for him) the seller is blocking buyers from UK, otherwise I'd be sorely tempted to send him an offer for $3.79 !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-SEIKO-7 ... 5124576995

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The watch case and bracelet appear to be from a gold-tone 7A38-7000, which had been stripped and polished in the best Filipino watch-botcher fashion. I say it was once a gold-tone, because there appear to be traces of gold plating left on one of the pushers. The off-white 725O Arabic number dial (and presumably the scabby mis-aligned Tachymeter ring) came from a gold-tone 7A38-7280. The manky hour and minute and sub-dial hands probably came from the 7A38-7000. This delightful creation (not) is topped off with the wrong case-back off a black chromed 7A38-714A !!

[Seiko7A38]

Italian eBay seller gm72time recently came up on my radar, by dint of the number of secondhand movement spare parts which he started listing on eBay earlier this month. It was evident that he'd broken up at least two 7A38s, one 7A48 and a Yema N8 to sell for parts. However, I don't expect he'll meet with much success, given that he's asking beteen €20 and €40 Euros for most of them. Seems he's also been dabbling in re-building them. Yesterday evening, he listed this horrible polished turd of a Franken, which was once a two-tone 7A38-728A, asking a risible €350 Euros as a Buy-it-Now.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Seik ... 4914914196

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The watch has been stripped of its gold plating and polished in the best Filipino watch botcher tradition. It's fitted with the white 718L dial from a gold-tone 7A38-7260 (or possibly a two-tone 7A38-726A). The hands may be the original set from the 7A38-728A. Here's what it would have looked like before he got his hands on it:

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I'm fairly confident about that, because he'd already listed the original 724O dial which he'd removed, on eBay at the beginning of April. The smudged printing points to moisture damage.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38:- ... 4869579835

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Of course I have built something similar myself many years ago. But better. See this old post from the WRUW thread.

[Seiko7A38]

Lately I've been noticing more and more gash watch parts, remnants of what once were Seiko 7A38's listed on eBay, particularly from less than forthright Italian sellers. It's difficult to ignore them sometimes, for example this allegedly ultra-rare empty two-tone 7A38-7270 case and bracelet, fitted with the wrong case-back off a 7A38-7280, was listed by an Italian seller no less than 9 times (across different eBay domains) within the last week, FFS. I'm not suggesting that they're all by-products of franken building, but a certain percentage will be.

I noticed another fairly obvious Franken listed late last night by an Italian seller. He calls it a titanium 7A38-7120. Indeed it comprises most of the component parts of one: case, case-back, bracelet and hands. But the white 724O Roman numeral dial is from a common-or-garden two-tone 7A38-728A (or -7289).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Seik ... 4589784658

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Note the date is halfway through its changeover before 10:00 pm ! The 30 minute sub-dial hand is off its marks too.
I added it to my watching page (out of curiosity) and almost immediately received an offer of €345 Euros from the seller. I declined. More correctly I told him to stick his over-priced piece of junk where the sun don't shine.

For those readers who don't know what the correct dial in a titanium 7A38-7120 should look like, here's one of mine:

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[Seiko7A38]

This horrible Franken was listed earlier this morning by Italian eBay seller watches-emily. It should be obvious to most people, but it's so hideous I decided to write it up anyway.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-7A38-C ... 5606576985

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The black-ish brown dial, movement and case-back are from a gunmetal two-tone 7A38-6090. The watch case, with its white Tachymeter ring is probably from a stainless 7A38-7280, which has had its enclosed lug boxes filed open to accept the cheap and nasty milanese mesh strap. The slightly oversize crown looks like an aftermarket item. The hands have been painted, badly. Truly one to be avoided at any cost.

[Seiko7A38]

Two 7A38 Frankens were listed on eBay yesterday evening, within an hour of each other. The first one, based on the extremely worn case and bracelet of what presumably once was a two-tone 7A38-702A was listed by an Italian eBay seller as a 10-day auction with a laughable opening bid price of €169 Euros.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-Quartz ... 6276102786

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I've only bothered uploading 6 of the seller's two dozen photos, but they should be sufficient to provide salutary warning to anybody foolish enough to be contemplating placing a bid. According to the seller, it's based on a 7A38-702A. Having gone through the photos, I'm struggling to find any remaining trace of gold plating. It's fitted with the off-white Arabic number 725O dial, hands and presumably movement, from a gold-tone 7A38-7280 and that watch's Tachymeter ring and case-back. If you study the photos closely, particularly the flash-lit images, like the one below, the dial appears to be suffering from micro-blistering. Note also the badly mis-aligned bezel.

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I've no idea why he included them, but there are three photos of the watch shown with a badly chipped crystal. One of them also clearly shows the micro-blistering on the dial. Compare these photos with the primary image, where the watch has been fitted with a replacement crystal. Notice anything missing ? - like a crystal gasket !

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The movement back-plate looks clean enough, but notice the clumsily deflected centre seconds finger tension spring.
Note also the under-sized non-original replacement crown. The crown tube may have been filed down to make it fit.

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He's obviously blissfully unaware of his cock-up that he posed a close-up !

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In the words of the Bard ....

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That one is best described as hideous. The other which is a bit more subtle and hence likely to tempt an unwary punter, was listed by a Finnish seller, as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of $55 or the option to Buy-it-Now for $120.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7a38-7 ... 5986695926

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It's based on the case and bracelet of a two-tone 7A38-728x and fitted with the white 718L dial from either a 7A38-726A or a gold-tone 7A38-7260. Note the sweep second hand is missing. According to the seller's description it will be supplied loose. That and the mis-aligned 1/10s hand probably sums up his abilities. If the watch looks vaguely familiar, that's possibly because I'd built myself something very similar a few years ago - it's still one of my favourite 7A38 Frankens.

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