Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at December 23, 2018 at 2:50 PM

I note the US eBay seller of that two-tone 7A38-7270 Franken made a few hasty revisions to the listing earlier this evening, including reducing their 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price from $219 to $129. Must have been a typo before. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132896694249

It's not a suggestion - it's a FACT. 

They've also added these sentences to their description:

NB: I cannot represent this watch as fully original because an ebay user pointed out to me that the dial is not the right dial for this model. I am a small collector and not a Seiko expert. I plan to take the caseback off soon to add movement photos.

That subtle two-tone 7A38-7270 Franken sold yesterday evening, but not for the US eBay seller's reduced Buy-it-Now price of $129.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132896694249

WatchCount.com's Look-up tool reveals it actually sold for a Best Offer of $110.

The eBay Purchase History also shows that an earlier offer was retracted.

The seller has since joined the forum, but remained remarkably taciturn - in view of my possibly overly harsh earlier comments. It transpires he'd innocently bought the watch himself on eBay, already in this non-original Franken configuration.

This vaguely described but attractive nonetheless, 7A38 Franken was listed on Yahoo Japan earlier today as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of 13,300 Yen. In their description the seller states: It may be a combination of parts. They've only uploaded 2 rather small photos, but it's not difficult to identfy the component parts. It's the watch case of a stainless 7A38-7260, which has been fitted with the black 709L dial, hands and presumably entire movement from a black chrome plated 7A38-7080. Oh and there's that rather incongruous gold-plated crown. 

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t630415517

Google translates the Japanese seller's description as follows:

It is a Seiko chronograph.

This is the world's first quartz chronograph.

Variation of popular 7A28 7A38. I have it.

※details unknown. It may be a combination of parts.

I do not think so. I hope in junk treatment.

It is second - hand goods. Individual storage, with exhibition,

I need your help by basic no claim and no return.

※ Battery remaining amount.

In addition, reply of questions etc. may be delayed by consulting goods of acquaintance.

* We will refuse the bid for troubles avoidance.

· New person · If you have a bad evaluation even once

· Nervous · After negotiations

· Those who are renegotiating by phone, e-mail etc.

· Those who can not understand Japanese · After the bidding, reselling or purchasing agency In the case of cancellation due to malfunction, or a person who is to be an exhibitor, a person who is to be an exhibitor, the one with the evidence of being bid, when awarded, I will cancel the cancellation procedure by deletion or successful bidder's desire.

I don't think so Jakob. It's just an unmolested stainless 7A38-7090, suffering from a bad case of 'patina'. The silvery-white 710L dial in this model is also found in the stainless 7A38-7190, 7A38-7280 and -7289. I've seen LOTS of cases of unevenly stained sub-dials in those models over the years. This is just another, but rather more even than most. I'm still not entirely sure what causes the effect - moisture ingress or fumes from a leaking battery, but the silver painted rings around the outer part of the sub-dials seem to suffer from some kind of chemical reaction and run, leading to this rusty pink-ish colour. Hang on a minute though, I seem to remember this particular 7A38-7090 ... 

Back in July 2017, an Italian named Valerio emailed me a photo of his 7A38-7090.

In the above photo, you can better discern (what were once) the silver painted rings.

Here's the reply I sent him on Wed, 26 Jul 2017:

Hello, Valerio.

The sub-dials on that 7A38-7090 are not the original colour. They are not so much faded as discoloured and stained. It is a fairly common problem with the silvery white 710L dial. The same dial is used in the stainless 7A38-7090, 7A38-7190, 7A38-7280 and 7A38-7289. I'm not sure why, but I've seen more 7A38-7190's afflicted with this problem. The dial should be the same silvery white colour all over (including the sub-dials), except they have silver-painted rings around their circumference. Although it's quite difficult to capture in photos. Here's a photo of my stainless 7A38-7090 attached.

I'm not sure what causes it. I think it is moisture ingress - a rusty film seeping from behind and between the dial plates. It may also be caused by fumes leaking from an old run-down battery, attacking the lacquer. I've only ever bought one watch - a stainless 7A38-7280 which was mildly affected by this problem. See attached photo of the dial. You can see the rust seeping from the date window in the 3 o'clock sub-dial.

There are numerous references to this problem on the forum, although I've never written a thread specifically about it.

I found a couple in these threads (mostly 7A38-7190's and 7A38-7280's with the stained sub-dial problem) ....

Here's an old wrist shot of my 7A38-7090 (possibly not the same one I sent Valerio):

Thank you, that's very informative. I kind of like the way the oxidation (or whatever it is) has discolored the sub-dials, but perhaps it would look and feel rattier when actually holding it in my hands. 

JimSclavunos at March 11, 2019 at 7:39 AM

Thank you, that's very informative. I kind of like the way the oxidation (or whatever it is) has discolored the sub-dials, but perhaps it would look and feel rattier when actually holding it in my hands. 

Hello, Jim and Paul and the others, long time I have not posted. Personally I love a watch with that kind of patina. Is there a topic on the forum with patina's dial? I don't think I ever saw the dial of a 7A so evenly "rusted", is it pink, is it salmon? I have a 7A with discoloration of the dial and unfortunately it is not as elegant as this one. 

Hello, Renaud - and welcome back. 

To answer your question: Is there a topic on the forum with patina's dial?

No there isn't currently, as I wrote in the copy of my email to Valerio quoted above:

There are numerous references to this problem on the forum, although I've never written a thread specifically about it.

Perhaps I should start one - specifically about the silvery-white 710L dial, because it appears to be a relatively common occurrence.

There certainly appears to have been a fair bit of interest in Valerio's 7A38-7090.

I notice that he ended his eBay listing earlier today as item no longer available.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183717903929

I'm a bit late, posting this as a 'heads up' for anybody who might have heeded my warning. But I may as well write it up retrospectively. Yesterday evening, UK eBay seller forpik listed a stainless 7A38-7020 'data', with a Buy-it-Now price of £350, which appeared to be attracting a lot of attention. I've absolutely no idea what he meant by 'data', but as I've already commented (on his various recent listings for 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1's), English obviously isn't this seller's native tongue. He's also evidently not averse to stretching the truth either.

The watch is of course a Franken. It's a well worn stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with the all-black 722L dial, hands and movement from a stainless 7A38-7270. We've seen a couple like these before, notably one that was 'doing the rounds' Down Under last year. But this isn't the same watch - it's not in such good condition.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233183724414

Note the usual commonly used 'half truth' in the description. Yes the dial and 'hends' may be original Seiko, but they're not original to this model. Academic, now anyway, it sold to some mug punter this morning, for the £350 Buy-it-Now price. Hopefully he knew what he was buying, when he hit the button.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233183724414

Confirmed by the eBay Purchase History:

Funny coincidence that we should have been discussing discoloured 710L dials last month (albeit slightly off topic for this thread). Earlier this week (Monday evening), a UK eBay seller listed what purports to be a 7A38-7069 in supposedly excellent condition, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of £50. It is of course a complete and utter Franken: the 7A38-7069 watch case fitted with a lightly stained 710L dial / movement / hands, presumably from a stainless 7A38-7190 / -7280, etc. topped off with a cheap leather strap. This is the sort of thing you normally expect to see offered by Filipino watch-botchers, like badingski and time_essence and at first I thought it might be one of their creations, being re-sold. If it is, I couldn't find it by skim reading through this thread, so I guess this one must be a 'home brew'. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323771077803

1980s GENTS STEEL.GOLD QUARTZ SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH WRISTWATCH IN EXCELLENT CONDITION.

STAINLESS STEEL WITH GILD BEZEL SEIKO SIGNED CASE IN EXCELLENT CONDITION HAS LIGHT SCRATCHES MARKS.

MEASURES 38MM ACROSS NOT INCLUDING CROWN & 43MM LONG.

WHITE SILVER DIAL WITH SILVER.BLACK MARKERS AND HANDS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION.

CLEAN CLEAR THICK GLASS LENS.NO SCRATCHES.

SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MOVEMENT NEW BATTERY FITTED RUNNING WELL. WORKING CORRECTLY.

GOOD GENTS SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH.

For the benefit of readers who still don't know what a correct appearing unmolested 7A38-7069 should look like, here's an old wrist shot of mine.

This hideous aberration, purporting to be a 7A38-701A, in truth a complete and utter Franken, was listed yesterday evening by an Italian eBay seller as a 7 day auction, with an opening bid price of 1 Euro. All that remains of the original 7A38-701A is the well-worn watch case and bezel. Even the unidentified crown is not original. The light grey 718L dial / movement fitted is from a two-tone 7A38-7260; the Tachymeter ring possibly from the same source, but it has a slightly gold-ish tinge to it in some of the photos. The lightweight non-original Seiko p/n XJA410 stainless bracelet fitted is likely off some period Ana-Digi model.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273805613621

Seiko 7A38-701A Chronograph vintage.

Orologio usato, perfettamente funzionante in tutte modalità.

Cassa acciaio inox, cinturino Seiko XJA410 acciaio inox usato.

Movimento pulito senza ossidazioni, da poco revisionato completamente, batteria nuova.

Oring tasti e corona sostituiti nuovi (non originali) , tasti scattano perfettamente.

Non testato a impermutabilità sotto pressione.

Presenti segni di usura, piccoli grafi su vetro e ghiera esterna tachimetro, guardate le foto.

In dotazione scatola d'epoca Seiko, adatta a orologio.

Guardate le foto.

For any readers who don't know what a 7A38-701A is supposed to look like, may I point you to the relevant 7A38-xxxx model specific thread, where you'll see plenty of correct unmolested examples, the nicest of which is to be found at top of page 4.

This pretty obvious and simply constructed Franken based on and purporting to be a stainless 7A38-7060, was listed by a German eBay seller in the early hours of this morning, as a Buy-it-Now for 99 Euros or the option to make an offer. The dark blue 708L dial / movement is from the sister 7A38-706A model, so a perfect 'drop in' replacement. I'm just a little surprised nobody has hit the button already. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143233536045 (ended - NLA)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133037698133 (and re-listed)

⭐⭐ Versteigere hier eine ⭐⭐

" SEIKO " Chronograph 7A38-7060 Armbanduhr

Funktion getestet

Die 3 Chronographen laufen die Zentralsekunde läuft mal dann zappelt sie als ob sie wohl nicht richtig

drauf gesetzt da der Minutenchronograph richtig anzeigt aber der Zentralsekundenzeiger immer mal woanders ist

Uhrzeit wird immer richtig angezeigt.

But then translating the German description reveals the reason why not ....

The 3 chronographs run the central second, then they fidget as if they are not right

set as the minute chronograph correctly indicates but the central second hand is always somewhere else.

Here's a 7A38 Franken that's almost certain to catch an unwary mug punter buyer. It was listed earlier this evening, by a US eBay seller, as 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $54.99, or the option of a Buy-it-Now price of $399.99, for anybody stupid enough. The seller has listed it as a 7A38-7290, but it looks very much like it's based on a tired 7A38-7029. Typo, perhaps ? It's fitted with the all black 722L dial (and hands and presumably movement) probably from a stainless 7A38-7270. However, the same 722L dial is also used in the black chrome coated 7A38-7290. So perhaps it was one of those that donated the moment - and possibly also its case-back (not shown in the seller's 3 photos).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143281655951

Seiko Chronograph - 7A38-7290 - Vintage from the 1980s. Condition is Pre-owned. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope.

Looks like an AP Royal Oak!

This is a reliable sports watch and it looks great in person. You’ll keep looking at your wrists.

- 100% functional Seiko Chronograph with 7A38 quartz movement and accurate time keeping

- Resets the Chronograph at the ‘0’ (dead center)

-Day Date function

- Recent service with new battery

- Adjustable tapered bracelet makes it look like like an AP Royal Oak. Adjustable with micro adjustments.

- Great condition for a watch from the 1980s

- Tachymetre

- Original dial and parts

- 37mm case...fits perfect!

Well, that didn't last long.  Less than 2 hours after I made my previous post, the US eBay seller ended his listing for that Franken 7A38-7029 / -7290 (whatever) as no longer available. Presumably sold off eBay via the 'back door' to a mug punter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143281655951

With almost comic timing (though I suspect more like opportunisim) this morning an Italian eBay seller listed an almost identical Franken, using the same all black 722L dial, based on a similarly well-worn stainless 7A38-7020. This guy is evidently a budding comedian - his 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price is 680 Euros !! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362670144533

Seiko 7a38-7020 royal oak anni '80.

Vendo questo Seiko facente parte della mia collezione privata,condizioni davvero buonissime data l'età che possiede,revisionato da poco,normalissimi segni del tempo come si può vedere dalle foto.

Particolarità di questo pezzo il quadrante,sostituito al momento dell'acquisto per motivi di puro gusto.

Contattatemi senza problemi per qualsiasi dubbio o chiarimenti, Grazie.

L'orologio è assolutamente originale in ogni sua parte.

There really is absolutely no need for me to post a 'heads up' on this 7A38 Franken in this thread. I'm simply doing so, as an example of how it should be done (IMHO) - because for a refreshing change, this particular 7A38 Franken was purpose built and is honestly described as such.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183865401284

Here for sale is a beautiful restored and modified Seiko 7A38 wrist watch. All stainless steel case and strap were sandblasted, brushed and polished, crystal was replaced, making beautiful one of a kind wrist watch. Dial and hands are in mint condition. This is a superb example of Seiko franken watch. All parts used are from different Seiko 7A38 models.

Feel free to contact me for additional info!

I ship worldwide!

The Slovenian eBay seller miromustang is an erstwhile member of this forum.  Indeed, he wrote a suitably titled thread back in January 2014, when he first built it.

See: My new modded Franken Seiko 7A38.

Now compare that nicely constructed 7A38 Franken to this hastily cobbled together concoction of leftover parts, which was clearly Gerry-built with one purpose in mind - to make a fast buck.  It was listed a couple of days ago by another erstwhile member of this forum (who has contributed very little - most in broken English), deceptive German eBay re-seller silversurfer365 (a.k.a. Carlo 'Ketap').

The watch case is from a well-worn two-tone 7A38-7060, fitted with the gold 710L dial from a gold-tone 7A38-728A (also fairly common in Germany), topped off with the case-back from a gold-tone 7A38-7000. Then there's the non-original sweep sweep second hand, the random cheap folded link stainless generic bracelet currently fitted, or the option of one of those naff 'two stitch' leather straps. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273907708372

Aus Sammlungsreduzierung :

Alle Funktionen gehen bestens, Uhr, Chrono, Datum und Justage sowie Selbsttest. Werk clean, Blatt und case gemixt, top roter Sekundenzeiger für die Stopuhr. Band aus dem Zubehör kräftig neuwertig ohne strech - kein Seiko- aber auch gut. Die Uhr hat ein neues Glas verbaut. Leder als Beispiel oder für plus 10€. Alles Gute zum kalten Brexit. Pipaul.

Not that I'm in the market for buying anybody else's 7A38 Franken (I've purposely built quite a few myself, purely for my own personal enjoyment, none of which are for sale, or likely to be), but if I was, I know which of these two I'd plump for - and it wouldn't be this hastily cobbled together over-priced piece of junk. 

PS - I can't wait for Brexit, Carlo - cold or hard. We'll do a better job next time. 

Seiko7A38 at June 30, 2019 at 4:09 AM

There really is absolutely no need for me to post a 'heads up' on this 7A38 Franken in this thread. I'm simply doing so, as an example of how it should be done (IMHO) - because for a refreshing change, this particular 7A38 Franken was purpose built and is honestly described as such.

But it's probably just as well I did, with hindsight.

It sold the following day for the $300 Buy-it-Now price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183865401284

Obviously bought by some unscrupulous person who thinks they can make a fast buck (actually $1000 fast bucks) selling it on. Listed overnight by a would-be profiteering US re-seller with a Buy-it-Now price of $1300 !!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113825733340

RESTORED MODEL In Excellent working condition. Case & band have little to no signs of ware. NEW BATTERY. Extra links included.

Case: 1 3/8inch. X 1 5/8inch.

Band: 7 1/8inch.

I shouldn't really need to flag up this latest fairly obvious Franken - and hopefully the laughable 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 450 Euros ought to be enough to deter the most foolhardy novice potential buyer. It's based on a stainless 7A38-7060, but the original silvery-white 708L dial has been replaced with a rather washed out looking gold 710L dial probably from a gold-tone 7A38-7190. The movement, with black day / date wheels is from something else again - possibly a 7A38-7180. Typically, the deceiptful Italian eBay seller describes it as being in very good condition and Molto raro per collezionisti.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254347391769

����RARE CHRONOGRAPH SEIKO 7A38 -7060 �� WORKING IN VERY GOOD CONDITION QUARTZ. La condizione Usato. Spedito con Posta 1 extra standard.

Orologio funzionante

Molto raro per collezionisti

Trattasi di una “ Vendita da privato esente da ogni garanzia, diritto di recesso, cambio o reso secondo le norme europee”, quindi la vendita avviene con formula "visto e piaciuto" (non si accettano resi, pertanto è consigliabile guardare attentamente le foto prima di effettuare l'acquisto). Inoltre non mi ritengo responsabile laddove la consegna non vada a buon fine, quindi in caso di smarrimenti, furti o danneggiamenti dovessero verificarsi durante il trasporto del bene fino all'indirizzo indicato dal compratore non rimborserò l'oggetto.

I think this deserves a big  and re-post of the obligatory Monty Python meme.

Five days later, the deceiptful Italian eBay seller ended that listing for his Franken 7A38-7060 because of an error - presumably in the ludicrous pricing.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254347391769

He re-listed it last week, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 172 Euros. That auction listing ended a few minutes ago.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254355391592

It supposedly sold for the opening bid price of 172 Euros, to a low feedback (3) bidder who has 100% bidding activity with the seller.

This 7A38-7020 Franken, listed earlier this afternoon, by an Italian eBay seller, with a 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 330 Euros, appears to be attracting a fair bit of attention already. Probably the 'Royal Oak' moniker misnomer.

The well-worn 7A38-7020 case, which going by the traces of gold plating on the over-polished bezel's dummy rivets, may have come from a two-tone, rather than a stainless version. It's been fitted with the 709L dial / movement from a 7A38-7070. There are only two photos, so I can't state conclusively, but the bracelet looks like a rather tired example of the ubiquitous Seiko p/n Z1357S, that has been fitted with a heavily re-brushed Seiko SQ 7-hole clasp.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352814859460

Seiko 7a38 Royal Oak. La condizione Usato funzionante in tutto per qualsiasi dubbio domandate pure, working in all for any doubt you ask as well.

Somewhat amusingly, it reminded me of the similarly themed 7A38-7020 Franken I'd constructed myself (taking rather more care) a few years ago:

If, as the seller suggests, you're in any doubt as to what an original unmolested stainless 7A38-7020 should look like - there probably isn't any hope left for you.

But here's a quick reminder: