Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

I do hate to recycle topics, thread titles and regurgitate stuff from the old forum, for the nth time, but remember this ?


A well-worn gold-tone Orient J39909-80 'head only', came up in my eBay saved search notifications, not once but three times, at lunchtime today. I guess somebody or something was trying to draw my attention to it. It was listed by an Italian eBay seller as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 69 Euros.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orologio-Cro ... 4662978670

Here's just the first couple of the seller's photos:

The rest of them are a bit dingy, some out of focus, but those two will suffice to demonstrate my point. I already have an Orient J39909-80 with a white dial in my collection, in rather better condition, one of the first few J39's I acquired. So initially I didn't think too much more about it. Still, as I habitually do, I added the listing to my eBay watching page and right-clicked and saved the rest of the photos.

Incidentally, this is the only photo from that Italian eBay listing in April 2011 where I bought mine (it's upside down):


But something was nagging me about the well-worn example that was listed today, so a couple of hours later I scrolled through the photos again. Then I compared it with some old photos of my Orient J39909-80, such as this close-up shot:


Spot the difference ? The dial layout is identical, with the same slightly incongruous '12', with different sized digits. But instead of the sub-dial rings being gold with black printing, like my own example, they're a sort of mucky gunmetal colour with gold printing. Zooming in on the seller's photos, best I can tell, the dial part number suffix is the same: SI-A06. But that's not unusual for dial colour variations.

So yet another previously unseen Orient J39 sub-variant. Makes me wonder how many more can there be out there.

Although this Orient J39909-80, currently listed on eBay Italy, is another subtle variation of the white dial, what I had been looking out for was a black-dialed version, which probably also exists. I have it in the 'antique bronze' case finish, model number J39009-80 (with one less '9'), as documented in this related thread on the old forum.

Something else occurred to me. I haven't yet seen a RACER branded version of this J39 model. Presumably again, one must exist (possibly under a different case model number), because I've seen a number of the RACER branded 7A48 equivalent (as J38907-80), which are documented in this thread on the old forum. Incidentally, Spanish eBay seller scufutzz has been re-listing one (which he claims is NOS), since November last year.

After some undue consternation, caused by an unexplained delay of a week, thanks to Royal Mail's Langley HWDC hub, I'm relieved to say that the packet from Italy, containing my newest incoming variation of Orient J39909-80 landed on my doormat this morning. It's everything I'd hoped for - almost better in fact.


The Italian eBay seller's dingy photos certainly didn't do it any favours - what I'd construed from them as being severe plating wear and tarnishing mostly turned out to be plain old grubbiness. What's more everything works as it should.

My original plan had been to simply transplant the dial / movement into a NOS Racer J38907-80 (7A48 equivalent) which I purchased two years ago and have kept in reserve, for this very purpose. Whereas this J39909-80 isn't in anywhere near as good condition as my other example, as received, it's not as bad as I expected it might be. So for the time being, at least, I'm going to strip and clean the case and see how it turns out.

Although I must have removed it at some point (to check the full dial part number), I can't remember having taken or posting a photo of the dial / movement from my previous J39909-80 on the old forum. So while I've got this one out ....


This J39 model doesn't have a separate dial ring; the Tachymeter scale is printed round the perimeter of the dial plate. The full dial part number is J392 9098 SI-A06 - the same as my other example with the gold ringed sub-dials. Where this one differs is that the movement is fitted with an English / French day wheel (the same as my J39009-80), compared to the English / German day wheel on my other J39909-80. Bearing in mind (not just the 3 watches I'm referring to here), but that the majority of these dressy Orient branded J39's seem to turn up on eBay Italy, serves to add to my earlier hypothesis: that these watches were never originally intended for the Italian market (on the basis that I've yet to find a J39 with an EL English / Italian day wheel). Seiko just off-loaded unsold excess inventory on their Italian distributor - as they'd evidently done with certain 7A38 models.

The exceedingly grubby watch case cleaned up quite well, as I'd hoped it might. Other than the underside of the pusher cups, the wear to the gold plating wasn't anywhere near as bad as had first appeared in the eBay seller's dingy photos. However, in washing off the years of accumulated filth, I uncovered to my disappointment, that it had succumbed to sweat induced corrosion on the lower edges of the watch case.


I've seen this phenomenon a few times before, on other gold-plated metal skinned resin watch cases - particularly the J39908-70. Here's a sharper close-up, showing the exposed resin.


There's also pitting on the LH side of the case, which given time, would probably have developed in a similar manner.


In fact, that pitting was visible in another of the Italian eBay seller's dingy photos. I'd just mistaken it for more filth.


The last sentence of his description: Lievi segni che potranno essere riscontrati su cassa e vetro sono dovuti al normale uso (vedi foto), eluded to these being 'slight signs' due to normal use.

As I'd gone to the trouble of cleaning it, I've reassembled it into its own watch case, for now, just to see how it looks.


Flipping it over, the worst of the corrosion to the lower part of the case is almost hidden, next to the case-back joint.


But my earlier plan of transplanting the dial / movement into that NOS Racer J38907-80, which was explicitly purchased with that intended purpose in mind, is looking increasingly like the appropriate and more sensible course of action.

After some deliberation, I changed my mind and since decided to grant that Racer J38907-80 a temporary reprieve; for a couple of reasons, not least of which, I may find a greater need for it later*. In the interim, I ordered a strap for the Orient J39909-80 - the same 18mm TSS Atlas as I'd fitted to my J39009-80, but in dark brown. That arrived yesterday.


Here's a quick side-by-side shot, in the collection box, of my latest sub-variant of J39909-80, sandwiched between the antique bronze finished J39009-80 and my original version with the gold sub-dials, which I've owned for nearly 10 years.


*For one thing, I suspect at least one other permutation of gold-tone Orient J39909-80 may have existed - a black dialed version (same dial as the J39009-80). I'm basing that on the fact that last July I saw a Racer J38907-80 (7A48) with one.


Then of course, there may be a whole slew of so far unseen Racer branded J39 variants. If they exist, they may possibly share the same case-back model number with the Orient version (per the J39908-70's). But past experience has taught me that Orient Watch Co. weren't always consistent or logical in their model numbering. Something I can state with confidence, is that it won't be J39907-80, because that number's already allocated against another dressy case model (as -50). It could however be one of those frustrating gaps on my spreadsheet, earlier in the numbering sequence.

I still keep my eyes open for Orient J39's, but their prices on eBay have become frankly ridiculous, with Italian sellers often asking between €350 and €400 Euros. There are very few variants missing from my collection, so I'm honestly not too worried. In the last week of July, a dressy gold-tone J39909-80 came up on Yahoo Japan as a 5-day auction, with an opening bid price of ¥1000 Yen (+10% Sales Tax). It's the same white-dialled version, with gold sub-dials, as I bought off eBay Italy in April 2011 (for €150 Euros - a lot of money back then). I decided to have a punt at it, just for the heck of it, but resolved not to exceed a maximum bid of ¥3500 - the Yen equivalent of £20 Quid. Despite interest from a couple of other bidders, I managed to win it for slightly less !

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/t1100720603


Here's half the seller's 8 photos:


DHL delivered the Buyee package this morning. I binned the fabric strap and fitted a new battery. The movement fired up straight away with full functionality. Before it arrived, I'd been toying with the idea of dropping the dial / movement into my NOS Racer J38907-80 (which is still held in reserve, see earlier post). Despite the 10 o'clock pusher being seized and the crown post bent, this case is in better cosmetic condition than the last one I bought, with minimal plating wear and no deterioration of the metal-skinned resin case. I've started cleaning it up this afternoon. Let's see.

The watch case scrubbed up quite well, as I'd expected it might.


Unfortunately the 10 o'clock pusher remains seized, despite being soaked in WD40 for 24 hours. I've tried most of my usual tricks and even resorted to attacking it with pliers, but it still ain't moving.


Here's the dial / movement. It's been ticking away happily (outside the case):


Not sure what I'm going to do now. I may end up fitting the dial / movement in that NOS Racer J38907-80 as a temporary measure / last resort, but I'd rather save the original watch case, if I can free that pusher.

Earlier this morning, I decided to try installing the Orient J3920 movement in my NOS Racer J38907-80, which uses an identical case; if only as a temporary measure. Here's a slightly different photo to that I posted in the WRUW thread.