Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

I suppose I could have started a new topic, instead of just turning the page - but as they're so obviously connected, what the heck.

With the number of Orient J39's I've come across re-branded as Racer in the last year, I'd suspected it was only a matter of time, before I encountered my first Racer J38 '7A48'. I found one on the Spanish free classifieds site www.todocoleccion.net this lunchtime:

http://www.todocoleccion.net/reloj-racer-cronograph-quartz-japan-funcionando~x43972200

RELOJ RACER CRONOGRAPH QUARTZ JAPAN FUNCIONANDO

USADO, FUNCIONANDO EN BUEN ESTADO, CORREA SIMIL PIEL USADA EN BUEN ESTADO SIN VALORAR , TAPA POSTERIOR CON ALGUNA RAYA Y A LA CUAL LE FALTA LA JUNTA INTERIOR DE ESTANQUEIDAD,, FUNCIONA SI BIEN LOS BOTONES-SAETAS DEL CRONO NO ACTUAN ( PRECISA LIMPIEZA, REPASO O REPARACION ) 

DIAMETRO DE LA CAJA SIN CONTAR LA CORONA: 38 MM. 

SE VENDE SEGUN SE MUESTRA EN FOTOGRAFIAS 

GASTOS DE ENVIO CERTIFICADO A PENINSULA 5 €

Not in the best of condition - nor am I quite sure what's going on with the battery ?  Sellotape for added insulation perhaps.

Can't quite make out the case-back model number from the seller's photo, either. For now I'll assume it's the same J38909-80. Correction: it's actually a J38907-80, whereas the Orient branded version (discussed on the first page of this thread) was a J38909-80. Again, more anomalies / inconsistencies by Orient Watch Co.. 

It's been a while (indeed a year) since I'd last spotted an Orient J38 - I don't exactly go out of my way searching for these things. 

Came across this one listed on eBay Italy a couple of days ago - another slight variation on what's becoming a familiar theme:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231656812617

OROLOGIO ORIENT CRONOGRAFO FASI LUNA BELLISSIMO !!!

This one's slightly unusual in that the case is in two-tone gunmetal and gold plated finish. Zooming in on the photo of the case-back (and squinting hard), the model number appears to be J38601-70. Which would make sense, because Orient Watch Co. previously used a '6' to designate a gunmetal finish on the J39601-70.

Italian seller is asking 110 Euros (or best offer). Strictly one for the Lunar-Ticks amongst us. 

Not having much success in my hunt for Orient (and Racer) J39's lately. 

However when I ran my latest search, I did stumble across another J38001-70 '7A48' listed on eBay Italy yesterday, by seller angeli_65 (she of the 'Craziest Prices' thread notoriety). Needless to say, it's typically stupidly over-priced @ $500 ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272019873484

RARE ORIENT CHRONOGRAPH MOON PHASE WATCH J38001-70 "MINT CONDITION"

Orient in excellent condition

almost like new

perfectly working

all original Orient Made in Japan

piece coming from my private collection

With so many threads including links to eBay listings, I can't always remember to go back to them to update them with a result. 

Like the Orient J38001-70 above, which was listed over a year ago, with a laughable 'Pie-in-the-Sky' Buy-it-Now price of $500. 

Sometimes the eBay listing is still there in eBay history - but not on this occasion, unfortunately. 

I suspect that it probably sold for a rather more sensible figure - either off eBay or through a 'Best Offer' at some point, as do most of the speculatively over-priced watches offered by Italian eBay sellers angeli_65 (and her partner strega_68).

There's no doubt as to who bought it though. 

Because what is undoubtedly the same almost mint condition Orient J38001-70 is now being offered by an Australian eBay seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322316729366

BEAUTIFUL RARE ORIENT, MADE IN JAPAN QUARTZ ANALOGUE MOONPHASE WATCH 1989, FROM MY OWN COLLECTION IN VERY GOOD CONDITION AND LOOKS ALMOST UNWORN. I WOULD RATE IT A 9/10. BEAUTIFUL CONDITION AND MECHANICS. RELUCTANT SALE. THIS WATCH USES THE RENOWN SEIKO 15 JEWEL QUARTZ ANALOGUE MOVEMENT, WHICH IS STAMPED ON THE WATCH FACE AS (SI) BY THE SUBDIAL "SEIKO INSTRUMENTS" SS (STAINLESS STEEL) GP (GOLD PLATED) SEE BACK COVER.

THE FIRST QUARTZ ANALOGUE MOVEMENT BY SEIKO (7A28) WITH A VARIATION USING THE MOONPHASE . IT HAS 7 HANDS, 3 PUSHERS TO OPERATE THE SMALL CHRONO HANDS AND ONE MAIN CROWN FOR TIME, MOONPHASE ADJUSTMENT ETC.

THE PUSHERS FUNCTION LIKE A NEW WATCH , THIS WATCH IS LIGHTLY WORN AND HARD TO SEE ANY MARKS ON THE CASE OR CRYSTAL, WHILE THE LEATHER BAND SHOWS A LITTLE WEAR AS EXPECTED.

CHRONO HANDS FUNCTION CORRECTLY AND RESET TO ZERO.

WILL COME WITH PROTECTIVE CASE, SEE PIC 2

VERY NICE VINTAGE WATCH WITH A QUALITY MOVEMENT , WILL BE SORRY TO SEE IT GO. FREE TRACKABLE POSTAGE.

Since I took my screen print of the listing a couple of days ago, the seller has made several (mostly minor) revisions to it.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=322316729366

.... including a couple of changes of photos - which I've just added into the string of (the original 5) images above.

Although there are no takers (yet) at the $210 Au opening bid price, the $280 Au Buy-it-Now price has also been removed.

.... and so it goes on. Yet more revisions. I guess he'll be happy with it eventually. 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=322316729366

Belated update: Well, despite all the revisions made by the Australian eBay seller - there were more - 18 in total  ....

.... he even cheekily added this extra line underneath the description, the following day:

OOPS .... ANOTHER REVISION ;-) but whose counting lol

The auction ended last Friday, without any bids being placed and presumably unsold.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322316729366

Seiko7A38 at January 8, 2013 at 12:07 PM

If one assumes this is a genuine Orient J38xxx-xx model (as opposed to the Orient J38 / Seiko 7A48 Franken in my previous post) ....

this again demonstrates the Orient Watch Company's use of the same watch case in multiple applications - and as we already knew, the direct interchangeabilty of 7A38 and 7A48 modules. Or in this case, should I more correctly say - of J3820 and J3920 modules.

If you're not following my drift, may I suggest you go back and re-read the first half a dozen posts and study the photos carefully. 

Despite the poor-ish photo, the watch case of this Orient J38 '7A48' bears an uncanny resemblance to that of my Orient J39908-70 '7A38'. If Orient consistently followed the same model numbering methodology, that they used for the other J38 sharing a J39 case,  this could likely be an Orient J38908-70. Purely in the pursuit of research, I may just message the eBay seller and ask the question.

I just received a reply from the eBay seller: il numero è: J38910-70 cs. Close but no cigar. Perhaps it's a two-tone, rather than GP.

It's always nice to be able to fill in a gap in my 'knowledge database', even after 3 or 4 years, particularly when it comes to the mysteries and inconsistencies of Orient Watch Co.'s case model number allocation. I knew there had to be a J38 (7A48) equivalent for the J39908-70 - i.e. a J38908-70. It looks like they used that number for the RACER branded version (and J38910-70 for the Orient). Whereas for the J39 (7A38), they used the same number J39908-70 for both Racer and Orient versions.

How do I know this ?  One finally turned up on eBay in Spain yesterday.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322328524178

Remember that (ex-Italian seller angeli_65) Orient J38001-70 listed by the Australian eBay seller intel54 last November ? 

I do, simply because of the laughable number of revisions made by the incompetent would-be seller. 

Anyway, seems he re-listed it overnight, with a corrected title and a fresh set of photos:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322434343067

VINTAGE RARE ORIENT MOONPHASE CHRONOGRAPH (SEIKO 7A48) WATCH IN BEAUTIFUL CONDITION, SOME MINOR MARKS FROM STORAGE OTHERWISE IMMACULATE.

FREE POSTAGE WITHIN AUSTRALIA . NON ORIGINAL ORIENT BOX INCLUDED. THANKS FOR LOOKING.

This time, quite incredibly by his standards, the seller actually made NO Revisions to the listing, before it sold early this morning.

PS - Not that there ever was any doubt in my mind, that this was the same Orient J38001-70 sold by Italian seller angeli_65 ....

But as I'd failed to post the result of their (re)listing, I had to think of another way. Here's the feedback left by the buyer intel54

Now whereas their original ($500 BIN) listing has disappeared into the ether, the subsequent re-listing still exists in history. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272080036575

Something else I'd intended to post last week, but simply ran out of time. I can't say I actively go searching for them, but I still occasionally stumble across Orient J38 (7A48's) during my searches for Orient J39's. This NOS Racer branded version was listed recently (or re-listed, IIRC) by an Italian / Spanish eBay seller.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273551052425

The female seller has only uploaded the single head on photo and there's very little in the way of useful additional information in the description.

I'd previously assumed this was case-back model # J38909-80 (see my post at the top of this page), but perhaps going by this seller's garbled listing title, it's actually a J38907-80. Who knows ? 

Something definitely a bit fishy about that one, though, because it's also being listed by a French eBay seller, using an almost identical (unretouched) photo.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372493834129

Montre Homme Racer 526J38907 (38 mm)

94,85 €

Disponibilité: en stock

Si vous aimez suivre les dernières tendances en matière de mode et accessoires, achetez Montre Homme Racer 526J38907 (38 mm) au meilleur prix.

Genre: Homme

Type de mouvement: Quartz

Materiau du boîtier: Acier

Matériau du bracelet: Cuir

Couleur du cadrant: Blanc

Verre: Minerai

Type de fermeture: Boucle

diamètre approx.: 38 mm

Le coffret de la marque est inclus

Rather disconcertingly, it's also being listed by another Italian eBay seller, asking nearly 3 times the price. Obviously a scammer - webmarketsrl has a feedback of only 6 but currently nearly 29,000 Items listed !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362477128886

In case anybody might be interested, I've spotted another 'NOS' Orient J38909-80 (re-branded 7A48 movement). It was listed a couple of days ago, by an Italian eBay seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of 100 Euros. That may sound reasonable, but it's faulty - as indeed are a fair proportion of the Orient's regularly listed by this seller.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273992576155

OROLOGIO ORIENT COMPLICATO

FASI LUNARI

QUARTZ/CHRONO

REFERENZA J38909

ADATTO PER UOMO...MISURA 39MM

NUOVO CON DIFETTO MECCANICO


OROLOGIO MAL FUNZIONANTE : LO VENDO PER RIPARAZIONI O RICAMBI,LA SECONDIERA FUNZIONA MA APRENDO LA CORONA LE LANCETTE NON GIRANO,SUPPONGO CI SIA QUALCHE RUOTA ROTTA,MA NON NE SONO CERTO..IL CHRONO FUNZIONA MA NON SI AZZERA..NUOVO FONDO DI MAGAZZINO..SEGNI SUPERFICIALI DOVUTI A GIACENZA.

If you are looking for one, it's not exactly hard to miss. Little over 1½ hours later, the Italian eBay seller listed it in parallel on eBay.co.uk.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273992665718

COMPLICATED ORIENT WATCH

MOON PHASE

QUARTZ / CHRONO

REFERENCE J38909

SUITABLE FOR MEN ... SIZE 39MM

NEW WITH MECHANICAL DEFECT


MALFUNCTIONING WATCH: I SELL IT FOR REPAIRS OR SPARE PARTS, THE SECOND HAND WORKS BUT WHEN I OPEN THE CROWN THE HANDS DO NOT TURN, I SUPPOSE THERE IS SOME BROKEN WHEEL, BUT I AM NOT SURE .. THE CHRONO WORKS BUT IT DOES NOT RESET .. NEW STOCK FUND .. SUPERFICIAL MARKS DUE TO STOCK.

He's since gone on to list it across half a dozen other eBay domains. 

Bargain priced RACER branded Orient J38 '7A48' anybody ?  This well-worn gold-tone J38901-70, listed by a Spanish eBay seller, came up in one of my saved searches this afternoon. Buy-it-Now for 30 Euros or make an even lower offer ? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233453312905

Reloj Racer. El estado es Usado. Racer Chronograph modelo J38901-70 CS, es resistente al agua, cronógrafo, la esfera mide 37mm de diámetro y maquinaria de cuarzo de 15 jewels, el cristal está perfecto, la correa es de piel.

Seiko7A38 at August 2, 2014 at 8:48 AM

With the number of Orient J39's I've come across re-branded as Racer in the last year, I'd suspected it was only a matter of time, before I encountered my first Racer J38 '7A48'. I found one on the Spanish free classifieds site www.todocoleccion.net this lunchtime:

Can't quite make out the case-back model number from the seller's photo, either. For now I'll assume it's the same J38909-80. Correction: it's actually a J38907-80, whereas the Orient branded version (discussed on the first page of this thread) was a J38909-80. Again, more anomalies / inconsistencies by Orient Watch Co..

As you may gather, from the infrequency / lack of updates to this thread, I don't go out of my way searching for Orient and Racer J38's. I just stumble across them, mostly by accident, every now and then. Whereas I still search Todocoleccion.net fairly regularly (in fact, I have a couple of saved searches set up on there) I hardly ever bother nowadays with Vibbo (which was previously Segundomano.es). Slim pickings. I chanced to look in there this morning and spotted this Racer J38 '7A48', fitted with a non-original bracelet, which was listed yesterday. The seller is actually in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria, rather than mainland Spain, and is asking a frankly ridiculous 250 Euros.

http://www.vibbo.com/las-palmas/reloj-racer/a133789892

There's only the one small photo and the description merely states: Rejoj Racer. Based on my earlier incorrect assumption, I'll make an inspired guess at the full model number being J38907-80.

As I'm not a particulary big fan of 'moonphase' complications, the Racer / Orient J38 '7A48's hold little interest for me personally (as a 7A38 collector) and I nearly didn't bother posting this. In observing (if not closely studying) them over the last couple of years, I've noticed that compared to their J39 siblings, the Racer and Orient J38's use far fewer of their shared case designs. I've only seen 3 basic variations to date:

J38001-70, J38601-70, J38701-70, J38901-70, J38003-70 and J38911-70 (share the same basic case used for the J39002-70 and J39902-70).

J38908-70 / J38910-70 (equivalent to the J39908-70).

J38907-80 / J38909-80 (equivalent to the J39909-80).

Ignoring the inconsistencies of Orient Watch Co. Ltd., when allocating case model numbers, you would have expected that when they produced another different J38 dial design (the J382-906R-006) with lumed batons and matching lumed hands, they would have given it a unique case-back number. They did - of more anon.*

This well-worn gold tone RACER 'head only' which purports to be a J38906-70, was listed a couple of days ago by a Spanish ebay seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of 119.90 Euros with the option to make an offer. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274499199748

Rare Racer Moonphase J38906-70 CS Orient J3820

Partially working

The watch works

The chronograph works, stops and all the hands can be changed correctly

The moonphase changes correctly

The date doesn't change non quickly and also when passing the 24h

Damaged inner plastic bezel

Scratches and knicks are present on the cristal and case

No strap

Any doubts just ask before buying

Customers from US please ask shipping availability.

*To my eyes, there's something altogether wrong with the overall look of this watch. The dial with its oblong outlined lumed batons is not dissimilar to the design used in the J39027-70 BreitBling clone. Once again, it's in the same gold-tone case as a J38901-70, but has a red-lettered Tachymeter dial ring, instead of Roman numerals. This dial would better lend itself to other J39 case designs - I'm thinking of dressy GP cases like the J39924-50. For that reason, my immediate thoughts were that it was a Franken comprising: the dial / hands (and movement) Tachymeter ring and case-back from a J38906-70 fitted in a J38901-70 case. Which might explain the broken Tachymeter ring, that doesn't appear to fit properly.

I messaged the eBay seller, hoping he might inadvertently confirm my suspicions. He insisted that was how he bought it. When asked about the broken Tachymeter ring, he retorted that it could be glued. I've not managed to find another photo of a J38906-70 online to compare with this example. I remain somewhat sceptical.