Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

When I acquired that set of NOS 7A38-705A spare parts a few months ago (see my last post at the bottom of the previous page), my first thought had been to use them to convert one of my 7A38-7050's into a 7A38-705A. All that would then be needed was to re-stamp one letter on the case-back. Bit naughty, I know. I deliberated long and hard and decided to wait a while and see if a suitable recepient 7A38-705A for them might come eventually along. As we know these things don't turn up very frequently. 

This typically tired, well worn and faded example listed on eBay yesterday by a French seller is the first I've seen in over 6 months:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252133815074

Montre Vintage SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH SPORTS 100 Modèle 7A38 - 705A 

Diamètre: 42 mm ( hors couronne ) 

Bel état, Toute d'origine, Pile neuve remplacer par mon horloger

Voir photos qui font partie intégralement du descriptif de l'objet en vente 

Frais d'envoi groupé en cas de plusieurs achats.

Envoi soigné et rapide des reception du paiement.

Bonne enchères a tous et a toutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paiement chèque ou virement bancaire,si remise en mains propres réglement en espèce uniquement.

The seller's idea of 'Bel état' (literally beautiful condition) and mine, differ somewhat. 

With an optimistic opening bid price of 200 Euros and no PayPal - I'm quite content to wait another 6 months. Merci, mais non merci.

The would-be French eBay seller has re-listed that 7A38-705A three times (@ the same 200 Euros opening bid price) to no avail.

There's currently less than 24 hours to run on the current re-listing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262178126385

In the interim, a new Swedish forum member, Gustaf, picked up a similar example from a FS advert on a Swedish watch forum:

http://www.timetotalk.se/kop-salj/fsot-seiko-7a38-705a-t18604.html (2 other watches were included in the same FS thread)

(SÅLD!) Cool och rejäl Seiko 7a38-705a från -84. Dessa ska tydligen vara bland de första analoga quartzkronograferna som gjordes! Just denna är hyfsat ovanlig med sitt lite råare utseende, vridbar klickande bezel och gula/blekt orangea inslag. Ca 41 mm i diameter exkl. krona och knappar. Allt fungerar bra, och håller tiden snudd på perfekt. Nya packningar och trycktestad, för några dagar sedan. Patina och bruksspår finns lite här och där, men inget som jag tycker stör på en sån här toolis Kommer på rasslig men skön originallänk med extra länkbitar. Sliten gammal Seikobox i plast kommer med, om så önskas. Vet ej om den är original till just denna klocka. Ingen annan servicehistorik eller andra tillbehör! 

(SÅLD!) Önskar 1500 kr + valfri frakt

The 1500 Swedish Kroner asking price equates to approx. £116 or 160 Euros.

Seiko7A38 at December 12, 2015 at 7:33 AM

The would-be French eBay seller has re-listed that 7A38-705A three times (@ the same 200 Euros opening bid price) to no avail.

There's currently less than 24 hours to run on the current re-listing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262178126385

It was re-listed once again, the following day at the same over-optimistic Buy-it-Now price of 200 Euros for another 30 days ....

But that re-listing was ended early, yesterday evening, because the item is no longer available:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252211981478

So presumably it was sold off eBay for a lower figure. But who knows ? 

Ignore that.  It's back again - re-listed for another 30 days. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252242737825

A couple of slightly belated updates to this thread.

I'm not quite sure what became of that 7A38-705A, but the potentially 30-day (re)listing ended on 21st January:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252242737825

Strange thing is that (on eBay.co.uk) it doesn't actually show as 'Sold', nor that the seller ended it early (for whatever reason). 

Edit: It's another of those anomolies caused by the way eBay presents the information (or not) across their geographic domains.

If you run a search on ended listings on eBay France for 7A38-705A, it comes up as sold (showing the Best Offer) for 180 Euros.

Swedish forum member Gustaf's brief love affair with his 'beater' 7A38-705A appears to be over. 

After offering it to me (by PM - I declined), I see that it's since been advertised for sale back on Klocksnack.se (where I first saw it):

http://klocksnack.se/threads/seiko-7a38-705a-dykar-chronograf.49436/

Seiko 7A38-705A dykar-chronograf

Meanwhile, I think I've finally found my own 'cheap beater' 7A38-705A. 

It was certainly cheap enough, compared to other recent examples, though it may actually turn out to be a half decent example. 

Late on Monday night, just before I hit the sack, I decided to run a quick worldwide eBay search on Seiko 7A38 - and found this. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161978910089

There was only the one photo and no proper description as such, just the Seller's Notes in the Item Specifics box, which translate as:

Objects in auction, unless otherwise stated, are to be considered USED. For the effective evaluation of the condition of the object at auction are authentic photographs, so do not hesitate to ask for more if you are unsure.

Needless to say, I didn't hesitate to hit the Buy-it-Now button. Don't think I've moved quite so quickly in a long time. 

Although I didn't waste a second researching him before I hit the button, it turns out that the seller: Metalli Preziosi Piemonte SRL is a Brick and Mortar establishment in Turin, dealing in watches, jewellery and precious metals: http://www.metallipreziosipiemonte.com/

Despite the fact it shows 'Best Offer accepted' in the screen print above, which I took just after I'd hit the B-I-N button (and the ended item summary below), I did actually pay the full 120 Euros Buy-it-Now price, without a quibble. Besides, there was no time for haggling. The seller only charged 10 Euros shipping, total 130 Euros, which compared to Woody's example, that started off this thread ($155 US + $60 shipping + 20% VAT and Customs clearance charges), makes it a somewhat cheaper late night impulse bargain buy.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251212003884

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161978910089

Oh, Yes - and this one's in rather better condition, too. 

The only minor problem with it that I've noticed (other than some light 'Desk Diver' marks on the clasp) is that the 4 o'clock pusher button is inoperable. It depresses, but doesn't travel very far, nor do anything. Hence why I wan't able to zero the chronograph sweep second hand, before I took these photos. Not unusual with this case design. I've experienced similar problems with a 7A38-7050 in the past. Their pusher operation is never particularly positive, even at the best of times. I'll take a few more photos at the weekend, once I've sorted it and given the watch a light clean.

Here's the obligatory Q&D wrist shot:

This lunchtime, I set about sorting out the inoperable 4 o'clock pusher issue, giving the watch a light overall clean at the same time.

The movement was nice and clean, showing no evidence of battery acid leaks or moisture ingress. It was fitted with an under-sized Renata # 395 battery, which I subsequently replaced with a Seizaiken SR936SW (# 394).

Athough both pushers on this side are making contact with the switch lever actuators, note how little travel is available. 

Nice clean 707L dial, with no sign of fading. 

Both switch actuators on this side of the movement looked OK, too. Perversely, if anything there was a slight amount of wear on cam of the 2 o'clock lever (as opposed to the 4 o'clock, which didn't work and looked like new). 

Both ends of the pusher shafts were straight and showed minimal signs of wear. Note the tiny scratch on the crystal. 

Indeed, when I stripped them out, there was hardly any dirt in the pushers or their cups in the watch case. 

As the pusher O-ring seals were tired and worn, I took the opportunity to replace them - using the Cousin's cheapie substitute parts, which I discovered last year, rather than Labanda's reproduction p/n EC0060B0A, which I also had in stock.

That, with a light application of silicone grease to the pusher shafts seems to have done the trick.  So I nailed it back together. 

Here's a few more photos as promised. It's not mint, but obviously a well cared for used example.

The case-back is covered in light scratches, probably the result of allowing the Z-fold clasp to rub against it when not being worn.

I haven't decided yet, but I may give it a light polishing. 

All evidence of the original matt black paint on the underside of the small bracelet interconnecing links is completely worn away.

Yet on the topsides, it's almost completely intact. 

There's only very minimal stretch between the bracelet links too. 

The SQ clasp closer and those light  'Desk Diver' marks I referred to earlier.

Sorry, couldn't resist the orange duster background. 

In this photo, you can see the tiny scratch on the crystal, just to the right of the date window.

The only other problem I've found with it (if you can call it that) - and I certainly can't complain at the price I paid ....

Is that the p/n Z1148S bracelet is missing two of its original complement of removable adjustment links. 

It still just fits my 7½" wrist on the penultimate pair of clasp adjusment holes, but it's just a tad too tight.

As it happens, 5 years ago in February 2011, I had the foresight to buy 4 NOS adjustment links (when I probably really only needed 2).

They're currently all fitted to my first (ex-Mike Rothe 'freebee') 7A38-7050, which has a fair amount of stretch in the bracelet ....

Most of them are hidden away under the SQ clasp closer.  Methinks a re-distribution of adjustment links is long overdue. 

So, while I had my 7A38-7050's out earlier today (working out the 3-way link swap), I thought I'd take a couple more photos ....

To illustrate my earlier reply to Woody ....

Seiko7A38 at January 10, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Hi Woody.

You are correct in your assumptions. Yes, the 7A38-705A is comparatively rare and it is effectively the sister watch to the 7A38-7050.

It shares many common parts, but has orange bezel numbering, dial printing and chronograph hands, instead of peppermint green.

There is another subtle difference between them; their dials. The 7A38-705A has a black dial with dark grey sub-dials, whereas in the 7A38-7050 the main dial plate colours are reversed - that has a dark grey dial with black sub-dials.

Don't think I've seen this particular side-by-side shot done before. 

Very very nice Paul.

One of the 7Axx's that I'd like to add to my collection.

Cheers, Simon.

Goes without saying, I'm pretty chuffed with it, particularly in view of the received condition / price paid and finally being able to fill a void in my collection, without having to resort to 'building' (faking) one from the NOS parts I'd accumulated.

Indeed, since I wrote this on the first page ....

Seiko7A38 at January 10, 2013 at 9:24 PM

This is probably cosmetically the nicest example of a 7A38-705A I've seen to date, listed on Yahoo Japan Auctions in November 2010:

However, although the bezel, case, bracelet, dial printing and hands may be the best condition I've seen, this watch wasn't completely original. Note the black (printed) on white (background) day and date wheels. It's obviously been fitted with a replacement movement.

.... and having now got my hands on a pretty decent used example, I've been googling images trying to find one in better condition.

These two run it pretty close:

Image found on Instagram posted by @ felt75r (Malaysian collector Tang Mun Lung). A very nice example, but note the incorrect white day and date wheels. Indeed, looking at the mark on the hour hand, I wouldn't mind betting that this is the same 7A38-705A which sold on Yahoo Japan auctions in November 2010 (see above quote).

and this one posted a couple of years ago on Wristsushi by CobraJet25 (Aaron Costello):

Incidentally the 7A38-705A isn't the easiest thing to photograph. The lighting needs to be absolutely spot on. You need to get enough playing on it to illuminate the comparatively dark orange Tachymeter scale lettering and bezel inlay numbering, but when you do, the chronograph hands frequently end up looking bright yellow (instead of orange, which mine are), per the photo I took last weekend.

I tried again today, but the light was crap. 

This rather tired example of a 7A38-705A, with typically faded bezel inlay, dial printing and hands, dodgy lume and a badly stretched bracelet was listed on eBay in the early hours, by one of the regular* Filipino watch botchers purveyors of well used (and frequently non-original) watches. As indeed this example is. Note the white backgrounds to the day and date wheels (which, of course, should be black with white lettering on this model), indicating that the movement has been swapped.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301916241594

*In case the familiar format of the listing, with its multi-coloured fonts and umpteen 640x480 sized embedded images doesn't provide a clue to the seller's new identity guilloche_enterprises, it is of course our old friend apol_of_your_eyes. They've omitted to change this part of their standard description / T&C's - the link below doesn't work any more ! 

Not sure why Apol & Bros decided to change their eBay ID, after all these years, but seems they did last week:

http://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=guilloche_enterprises

That eBay auction for the tired-looking 7A38-705A by Filipino eBay seller apol_of_your_eyes oops guilloche_enterprises ended in the early hours of this morning, selling for $182.50 (approx. £129.55) after 17 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301916241594

I really don't know why I'm even bothering to mention this.  Yet another instance of an Italian eBay seller having a laugh. 

This job lot pairing of an absolutely knackered 7A38-705A (there is no other way to describe it) and an average well-worn stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a short non-orginal bracelet was listed yesterday evening with a ludicrous Buy-it-Now price of 900 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252547835336

N.2 rari Seiko Speedmaster:

il primo introvabile cronografo Seiko ref. 7A38 705A , quadrante nero, ghiera bidirezionale, il vetro presenta dei graffi e la ghiera è vissuta, bracciale originale molto lungo adattabile a qualsiasi polso. L'orologio è funzionante ma la parte cronografica non funziona. Vendo da riparare o per pezzi di ricambio.

Il secondo è un raro Seiko Speedmaster ref. 7A38-7020, quadrante grigio, il vetro presenta dei graffi. L'orologio è funzionante. Il bracciale è un po' piccolo ma si possono aggiungere altre prolunghe. Entrambi gli orologi hanno casse in acciaio e movimento al quarzo. Vendo così com'è con formula visto e piaciuto senza nessuna forma di garanzia. Per le spedizioni verso l'Italia il costo è di 7 euro. Per le spedizioni verso il resto del mondo si prega di chiedere il costo. Non si effettuano consegne a mano.

N.2 rare Seiko Speedmaster:

the first that cannot be found chronograph Seiko ref. 7A38 705A, black dial, bidirectional bezel, the glass introduces some scratches and the bezel lives, adaptable very long original bracelet to any wrist. The watch is working but the chronographic part doesn't work. I sell to mend or for pieces of exchange.

The second is a rare Seiko Speedmaster ref. 7A38-7020, grey dial, the glass introduces some scratches. The watch is working. The bracelet is some small but they can be added other extentions. Both the watchs have case in steel and quartz movement. I sell as it is with formula seen and liked without any form of guarantee. For the shipping toward Italy the cost is of 7 Euro. For the shipping toward the rest of the world it is begged to ask The cost. Hands deliveries dont be effected.

If you're considering making an offer, I'd suggest 90 Euros might be nearer the mark - certainly as a starting point. 

Something of a belated update to the above eBay listing for a dog-eared 7A38-705A (including a 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original bracelet in the job lot), which I'd previously overlooked / not had time to write up. Needless to say, there were no takers at the Italian eBay seller's original ludicrous 900 Euro asking price. They subsequently re-listed it, with the Buy-it-Now price reduced to 'only' 490 Euros - but still way to much for a pair of 7A38's in such condition. However, they do appear to have sold last Sunday evening ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252564160139

I couldn't believe that anyone could be stupid enough to pay that sort of money - and indeed they didn't. 

Once again this is another example of deception by eBay in displaying their sales results in a more profitable light.

This item should be shown as 'Best Offer Accepted', rather than just 'Sold' (at the seller's (reduced) asking price) ....

Because according to Goofbid's eBay Best Offer History tool, they actually sold for a rather more realistic 200 Euros. 

Good to see that the seller received a few suitably 'lowball' offers too ! 

This typically tired-looking 7A38-705A was listed in the early hours of this morning by a Filipino eBay seller, with a risibly over-optimistic 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of  $850 !! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222463811541

Indeed, it's worth studying the seller's photos, because apart from the obvious 'wabi', not everything is quite as it should be with this watch. The white painted hour and minute hands are not orginal to this model. The correct style hands have more pronounced points and are 'bare metal' finish. Like the similarly tired example offered by Filipino eBay seller guilloche_enterprises in April 2016 (see higher up the page), this watch has also been fitted with a replacement movement, with white day / date wheels, instead of the correct black with white lettering. The two upper pusher buttons (@ 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock) appear to protude far more than usual outside their pusher cups (for this model). According to the seller they 'Properly Function'. One of them appears to have fresh plier marks.