Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

When I originally set up this forum section, you may have noticed that I deliberately included 'Mercado Libre' in the litle. 

Since then, there's been little or no mention of this, the Latin American equivalent of eBay: http://www.mercadolibre.com

Couple of reasons: firstly, pressure of time  .... then there's the language barrier - I don't do Spanish nor Portuguese. 

But if you're looking for the rarer ZFM produced versions of Seiko 7A38's, there really is only one place to look - that's here. 

I was already aware of the existence of the black chrome 7A38-7085 and 7A38-7295. I've seen a couple of examples over the years.

Effectively these were locally produced versions (by Seiko's offshore Manaus plant) of the more familiar 7A38-7080 and 7A38-7290.

The principle visible differences being the lack of 'JAPAN' at the bottom of their dials, and the ZFM case-back stampings.

In May 2011, a Franken ZFM 7A38 'Diver' was listed on eBay and incidentally also concurrently listed on Mercardo Livre, Brazil.

The watch was mentioned in both the long-running 'Heads Up on yet another 7A38 Franken' thread on RLT (on page 12):

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=53526&view=findpost&p=668564

and in greater detail in another parallel thread dealing specifically with 7A38 Franken 'Divers':

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=52954&view=findpost&p=665774

However, if you read through the above link, you'll see that my initial appraisal of it was, in fact, far from correct. 

Thanks to additional input from RLT member Bruce '7A28lvr', we subsequently dissected it properly - or so I thought at the time.

Surprisingly, the original listing is still available in eBay history: http://www.ebay.com/itm/250822095718

However, although it was a Franken, beyond doubt, I now believe my analysis of it the watch (based on current knowledge) was wrong.

Here are a few of the small photos from the original eBay listing (or should I correctly say from the seller's slightly revised version of it):

Our analysis of this Franken was based on the knowledge, then, of the existence of the ZFM black chrome 7A38-7085 and 7A38-7295.

Basically, this watch (apart from the non-original bezel insert) was fitted with a (non SPORTS 100) 722S dial from a 7A38-7295 and the wrong case-back from a black chrome 7A38-7085 (note: BASE METAL) and apparently the wrong p/n B1075S (7A28-704x) bracelet.

Hence my photo caption file-names. But neither of us was aware, at the time, of the existence of another ZFM model - the 7A38-7075.

From what I've learned today, I now believe this Franken was cobbled together from 3 ZFM's: 7A38-7075, 7A38-7085 and 7A38-7295.

Earlier today, I ran a quick search on Mercadolivre.br and came across my first sighting of what I believe is a genuine ZFM 7A38-7075.

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-455787987

Cronógrafo Seiko 7a38 - Robert Redford / Raf - Fantástico!

The seller has another half a dozen or so similar photos embedded in his listing description - which I'm not going to bother copying. 

A few observations about the watch:

It appears to have the same 709x 'SPORTS 100' logo'd dial with dark grey subdials, which we're familiar with in a 'normal' 7A38-7070.

Except for the lack of 'JAPAN' to the right of the 7 o'clock baton and if you look carefully the dial part number is 709S rather than 709L.

Pity there isn't a full unobscured shot of the case-back. The ZFM stampings are above the 'Double Wave' logo, hidden by the bracelet.

Note the serial number 983998. Like all the ZFM-produced 7A38's witnessed so far, a much later date of manufacture - August 1989.

Funnily enough, like the 7A38-7085-7075 ZFM Franken seen on eBay in May 2011, it is also fitted with a p/n B1075S bracelet, rather than the slightly heavier p/n B1241S you'd expect to find on a 'normal' 7A38-7070. Quoted in the wrong context, an old saying goes: 'Two wrongs don't make it right', but to my mind, it's just too much of a coincidence. Hopefully, further sightings of ZFM 7A38-7075's

in the future, should confirm whether it's the correct bracelet for the ZFM version - or possibly not. 

As far as my deliberately tongue in cheek / play on words topic title, goes .... there's the would-be seller's Buy-it-Now asking price. 

R$ 1.100 - that's in Brazilian REAL - equivalent to $529 US or £327 GBP in real money. 

He also goes on at great length (both in the listing title and at the bottom of his description) about the 'Robert Redford' connection.

However he does also almost correctly point out:

MOMENTO "HISTÓRIAS DE HOLLYWOOD" - ROBERT REDFORD USOU ESTE EXATO MODELO (MESMA CONFIGURAÇÃO), PORÉM SEM CALENDÁRIO (7A28) NO FILME "SNEAKERS" DE 1992.

which translates as:

"HOLLYWOOD STORIES" - ROBERT REDFORD USED THIS EXACT MODEL (SAME CONFIGURATION), BUT NO CALENDER (7A28) IN THE FILM "SNEAKERS" FROM 1992.

This movie connection has been well documented in a couple of threads on the old Network54 SCWF and more recently on WUS:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/identified-seiko-one-my-favorite-films-sneakers-494716.html

Exact same model ?  ZFM 7A38-7075 versus 7A28-7049. Erm not quite ! 

The funniest, and certainly most ironic half-truth in this Brazilian seller's listing description is right at the very bottom:

É JAPONÊS, É GARANTIDO!!! which translates as: IS JAPANESE, IS GUARANTEED!!

Oh really ?  Perhaps that's why he possibly deliberately obscured the ZFM stampings in his photo of the case-back. 

For those of you who haven't seen them stamped on a ZFM-produced Seiko case-back, and thanks to Paulo Daneu's post on RLT:

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=70490&st=0&p=708645&#entry708645

They read: PROD. Z. F. MANAUS - 542 AM IND. BRAS.

Time to update this thread once again, methinks. I happened to read back though it and clicked on the (abbreviated) link I'd posted in December for that over-priced but admittedly rather nice looking ZFM 7A38-7075: http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-455787987

I remembered it was long since sold, but I wanted to see if the listing was still there. It obviously wasn't because I was re-directed here:

http://lista.mercadolivre.com.br/cronografo-seiko-7a38-robert-redford

The common search denominators with the previous ZFM 7A38-7075 listing being Cronógrafo Seiko / Robert Redford. 

They're both worth looking at - the first should be familiar to our more observant readers. 

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-509195731

It clearly isn't a 7A28 as per the incorrect title, but a ZFM 7A38-7075. 

Indeed it's the very same ZFM 7A38-7075 on an incorrect replacement bracelet which I documented in this other thread, back in June.

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-486920591-seiko-aviador-7a38-7075-lendariopcolecionador-raro-unico-m-_JM

That link is currently still working. If you click on it you'll see this header at the top:  

So, by my interpretation, it appears to have sold to this other São Paulo based seller for R$ 549 - who is now offering it for R$ 699 ! 

In fact, if you compare the two listings, it's obvious that not only has this would-be profiteering re-seller re-used most of the previous seller's photos, but he has also copied his description - verbatim, using the same fonts, before adding all his multi-coloured crap to it.

Oddly enough, this listing description makes little reference to Robert Redford, but includes more (pictorial) B/S about the RAF. 

The incompetent prat has also included a (7A28 movement) photo which clearly belongs to his other listing. 

The second came as a bit of a surprise when I clicked on it - it's a JDM 7A28-7040. Certainly not rare, but unusal to find one in Brazil.

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-512554418

I've only bothered uploading about half of the seller's listing photos:

Despite all the B/S in this listing (so much that it takes a while for the advert to load) - including all his previously used Robert Redford crap plus the false RAF connection, this is not a particularly good example of a JDM 7A28-7040. The bracelet is clearly very tired, with worn and bent pins; the bezel insert scratched and the hands lume looks a bit moldy. It most definitely was made in Japan though ! 

Should any Brazilian collectors be reading this, who might be thinking about a JDM 7A28-7040 (as opposed to a ZFM 7A38-7075), may I suggest that you'd do rather better to have a look on Yahoo Japan auctions. Always plenty of decent examples to be found there. 

http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=7A28 This one looks very tidy: http://page22.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/l212977389

As for the would-be Mercado Livre seller, who goes by the username of Moshi Cohen recommending this example:

http://perfil.mercadolivre.com.br/MOSHI+COHEN

All I can say is .... TIME TO GET REAL.  His asking price of R$ 1350 (Brazilian Real) = $600 US !!    

Seems there are some decent 7Axx's to be found on Mercado Livre though - at reasonable prices too. Found this while I was looking:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-508228338

A very nice-looking example of the crackle black Titanum 7A28-7060 (check the photos) for only 500 Brazilian Real (approx $222 US).

As a recent comparison, I'd go as far as to say it's in better condition than this 7A28-7069 snapped up from eBay by a forum member:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281166709653

My apologies, Gentlemen .... and to Moshi Cohen.  

Although they're similar in many ways, Mercado Libre and eBay present the seller information in a slightly different manner.

Particularly if you're not signed in to Mercado Libre, or are running Chrome's Adblock Plus, which prevents pop-ups from working.

Seems I inadvertantly jumped to the wrong conclusion earlier, when I wrote:

So, by my interpretation, it appears to have sold to this other São Paulo based seller for R$ 549 - who is now offering it for R$ 699 ! 

In fact, if you compare the two listings, it's obvious that not only has this would-be profiteering re-seller re-used most of the previous seller's photos, but he has also copied his description - verbatim, using the same fonts, before adding all his multi-coloured crap to it.

Oddly enough, this listing description makes little reference to Robert Redford, but includes more (pictorial) B/S about the RAF. 

The incompetent prat has also included a (7A28 movement) photo which clearly belongs to his other listing.  

With further investigation ....

It would appear that the original ended listing for that ZFM 7A38-7075 (on an incorrect replacement bracelet) priced at R$ 549:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-486920591-seiko-aviador-7a38-7075-lendariopcolecionador-raro-unico-m-_JM

and the current incorrectly titled (as a 7A28 SpeedMaster) listing, in the same style as Moshi Cohen's listing, priced @ R$ 699:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-509195731-cronografo-seiko-7a28-speedmaster-robert-redford-raf-_JM

are both by the same Mercado Libre seller -  DeLuccasJR: http://perfil.mercadolivre.com.br/DELUCCASJR - not Moshi Cohen.

So he didn't sell it in July. 

The listing just ended - possibly by timing out, or by his intervention. When he subsequently re-listed it, he blatantly copied a sizeable chunk of Moshi Cohen's multi-coloured listing description, including his JDM 7A28 movement photo - and tacked it onto his new one.

He also copied Moshi Cohen's complete listing title, verbatim, which is what had confused me into thinking they were the same seller.

He then upped the price from R$ 549 to R$ 699 for good measure. 

By his less than subtle subterfuge - an attempt at promoting it, he's effectively ended up garbaging his own listing into the bargain. 

What a complete d!ck !  

It's been a couple of months since I last took a walk on the wild side, south of the border - on Mercado Livre, but this afternoon I ran a quick search on Seiko 7A38 and found two listings: one from last month, the other dating back to October - both worthy of a mention.

Not necessarily for the right reasons, though. 

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-526254396

** OPORTUNIDADE ÚNICA **

D E S C R I Ç Ã O :

MARCA 

* S E I K O 

MODELO 

* Vintage, 7A38-7295, Década de 80; 

MOSTRADOR

* Preto, original, em ótimo estado de conservação, cifras em relevo, ponteiros originais e impecáveis;

* Vidro em crystal mineral, original, com leves riscos; 

MOVIMENTO

* Quartz, calibre 7A38, (15 jewels), funcionando perfeitamente;

* Funções: Time (Analógico), Day-Date, Cronógrafo (30 min, 60 seg e 1/10 seg), funcionando perfeitamente (8x funções no total);

PULSEIRA

* Em aço, nova, preta, não é original do relógio, porém ficou uniforme; 

CAIXA

* Em ótimo estado de conservação, com leves desgastes na pintura, pintura preta em PVD; 

* Medindo: 37x37x10mm, sem contar a coroa, os pushers e as garras; 

* Coroa e Pushers: Originais, em aço, em ótimo estado de conservação, pretos, em pleno funcionamento; 

* Fundo em ótimo estado de conservação, com leves marcas de uso, assinado: SEIKO (7A38-7295) 990073;

Smallish photos but still nice and sharp - clear enough to be able to read the ZFM stampings in the middle of the case-back, anyway.

The black chrome bracelet fitted is obviously a replacement for the original Seiko p/n B1615F (as stated in the seller's description) - indeed, in their last photo you can see where the spring bar tubes have been crudely ground away to fit the 18mm boxed lug width. 

Lume on the batons looks grotty too - and the plated SEIKO dial logo is corroded and bent in the middle. Probably one best avoided.

The other 7A38 isn't much better, in terms of condition: it's also fitted with an incorrect replacement bracelet ....

But assuming the rest of it is genuine, it's the very first example of ZFM 7A38-7275 that I've personally ever seen:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-517096149

Relógio Seiko Cronógrafo, funcionando tudo, porém não consegui sincronizar o dia da semana com o do mês.

Caixa com 41mm x 37mm

Inox, pulseira idem.

Aceito trocas

This seller's photos are much larger, but unfortunately very grainy - there's only front views; no shot of the ZFM stamped case-back.

The dial doesn't have 'JAPAN' printed to the right of the 7 o'clock baton - I assume it's the same 722S dial used in a ZFM 7A38-7295.

That a ZFM version of the stainless 7A38-7270 existed shouldn't really be any surprise. I've known about the ZFM 7A38-7295 black chrome equivalent (of the 7A38-7290) for years. Then there were the ZFM stainless 7A38-7075 and black chrome 7A38-7085 divers.

Strange that one had never cropped up before, though. So as a quick sanity check, I googled 7A38-7275. Yes there are other results, but nearly all point back to this fairly recent Mercado Livre listing. Apart from this thread dating from 2011 on a Brazilian watch forum:

http://www.relogioserelogios.com.br/topic_threads.asp?ReturnPage=Topic&ForumID=1&TopicID=35255 

Seems my timing in finding those two listings on Mercado Livre, this afternoon, was fortuitous in more ways than one.

Just in case I'd missed any other appearances of ZFM 7A38-7295's (besides), I ran a quick google search on them too.

I found this earlier listing which had ended on Friday:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-524844805

You'll note that in this previous listing, the seller was asking 299 Brazilian Reals. It didn't sell so they logically upped the price to 349. 

But what's worse, I noticed something I'd overlooked in the current (re)listing. The seller is none other than notorious Watches.br !! 

So where I previously wrote 'Probably one best avoided' .... it should read DEFINITELY ONE TO BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS ! 

I had another quick look on MercadoLivre.br last night and sure enough that ZFM 7A38-7275 and dodgy 7A38-7295 are still there.

They've since been joined by another 7A38-7295:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-535687335-seiko-7a38-7295-_JM

SEIKO 7A38 7295

Lindissimo Seiko movimento automático a quartz, cronografo lindão, ponteiros do crono zerando perfeitamente. Máquina com excelente acuracidade. Inteira revisada.

Calendários de câmbio rápido. ZFM.

Depósitos em contas no BB e CEF. Somente venda. Veja fotos abaixo.

At first glance it appears to be in far better condition than the dog-eared example offered by Watches.br, but if you look carefully at the first photo, the vulnerable black chrome coating is worn away on the top leading edge of the watch case. It's also been fitted with a black nylon webbing strap in place of the original Seiko p/n B1615F bracelet. There's no mention of that in the seller's description.

Having said that, this seller's asking price of 400 Brazilian Real (£100 GBP / $166 USD) probably isn't  too wide of the mark.

Crickey. It's nearly a year since I last updated this thread. I guess that tells you I don't check MercadoLivre.br very often. 

But others do, obviously. Thanks to Paulo Daneu for the heads up on this latest travesty of a ZFM 7A38 to appear on there. 

I could have written about it in a couple of other threads in this forum section, where it would have fitted the criteria:

Bad examples of re-finishing seen on eBay - Caveat Emptor or

Yet another 7Axx on an undisclosed non-original bracelet ....

But seeing as it's (or should I say what's left of) a comparatively rare ZFM variant, here will do just as well.

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-616603624-relogio-seiko-chronograph-sports-100-7a38-raro-antigo-_JM

The parts of the description that I've under / out-lined translate as follows:

CASE: Very well maintained, original, light marks of wear and tear of age, brushed stainless steel (before black chrome),

For which read: Top surface of the watch case stripped - remainder showing plenty of evidence of original worn black chrome. 

BRACELET: Original Bracelet, stainless steel, excellent condition, very few wear marks, signed: SEIKO. The number of printed bracelet piece on the lower end connections is A102 (in perfect condition). With the watch, is currently with other stainless steel bracelet with safety clasp - more modern). The two bracelets will come with the watch.

For which read: Complete and utter b*ll*cks. The original bracelet would have been a black chrome coated Seiko p/n B1242 !