Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers
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| Forum Home > Non-Seiko 7Axx Discussion Area (Re-branded mvmt's) > What became of Jean-Loup Chretien's Yema Spationaute III ? | ||
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
Never let it be said, by anyone, that I have acted with a Reckless Disregard for the Truth in any of my various online investigations. Indeed, in the past, I have gained a reputation, notoriety even, in certain automotive circles, for my relentless pursuit of 'The Truth'. I believe I have exercised due diligence in this matter, to date. Legal precedents exist, which suggest I should continue to do so.*
Nor let it be said that I am unprepared to admit to incorrect assumptions, or errors of judgement, based on a paucity of photographic evidence or lack of responses; nor to be unwilling to correct or retract such statements and publicly apologize to parties concerned.
Those of you who have followed this topic closely will note that I have very subtly post-edited the first page on several occasions. Rather than keep going back, and adding to, or amending the foregoing posts, I’ve decided it's time to turn the virtual page. Any and all new evidence will follow on from here. *Law suits have been filed (and dismissed) in such matters, e.g. Buzz Aldrin's missing Omega Speedmaster Professional 'Moon watch'. See: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-101303b.html and http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-101303a.html Case No.: GIN029095 COMPLAINT TO QUIET TITLE TO PERSONAL PROPERTY [CCP § 760.020] Dated April 11, 2003 7. The personal property which is the subject matter of this action is one each Omega Speedmaster Professional Chronograph Wrist Watch having the movement number 26'549'951, caliber 321 manufactured on November 29, 1968, with reference number ST 145.012, and it is further believed that subject watch is serial number 043, also known as "the Moon Watch".
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
I probably should have written that 'Disclaimer' at the top of the first page. To quote myself (twice) from my first post:
Perhaps it was because they were then still a relatively new organization, but Seiko France / C.G.H. didn't appear to capitalize on the opportunity for publicity with their Yema Spationaute III, the way Matra had. Even the wording in their 1989 catalogue was 'low key' .... Perhaps C.G.H. hadn't managed to secure an exclusive agreement with C.N.E.S. (as Matra would appear to have done previously) .... Incredibly, in three years of actively collecting Yema N8's and related ephemera, I had never once before seen this 1989 Yema advert. Not on eBay, LeBonCoin, nor any of the so-called French watch or space enthusiast forums. Never. Not for want of asking, either. See: http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t99493-cherche-publicite-yema-des-annees-1988-1991 I have two other parallel saved favourite eBay saved searches, besides the obvious 'Publicité Yema'. Yesterday morning, all three of them sent me an email notification. Needless to say, I bought it, without hesitation.
The French text: Yema. L’Heure des Héros. La Spationaute III construite spécialement pour la dernière mission Franco-Sovietique a été elaborée suivant le cahier des charges du Centre Nationale d’Études Spatiales (CNES) pour résister aux conditions d’utilization les plus extrêmes. Mission remplie. YEMA, fournisseur officiel du CNES depuis 1982. Translates as: Yema. Time of Heroes. The Spationaute III built especially for the last Franco-Russian mission has been developed according to the specifications of the National Centre for Space Studies (CNES) to withstand the most extreme conditions of use. Mission fulfilled. YEMA, official supplier to CNES since 1982. The above scan is from the eBay seller's listing. When the print arrives, I'll re-scan it at a higher resolution - or at least the lower R.H. corner, with the image of the watch itself. One thing it has already confirmed (which I knew anyway) was that I had deliberately fitted the wrong (later, narrower polished style .... as opposed to the silver-painted hands) main handset to my 'bitza' Spationaute III with the 'mission flags' dial, when I'd rebuilt it in 2009.
Both sets of hands can be found on production versions, manufactured in 1989:
'Old Yeller' will likely donate the correct hour and minute hands, and I'm also considering re-casing the watch, which it really deserves. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
Reserved for new evidence and updates to existing ongoing investigations. The original quest of this topic: What became of Jean-Loup Chrétien's Yema Spationaute III ? has since become somewhat academic. It's effectively already been answered by Jean-Loup himself - in that he (or his son) still has it. That hasn't stopped me pursuing a few other lines of enquiry, as to the fate of the other 5 Aragatz cosmonauts' Yema Spationaute III's. However, I am sorry to report, that I have met with little or no success to date. From his listings of Aleksandr Volkov's space memorabilia on eBay (as ‘Maksuta') it was quite apparent that dealer Maxim Martynov was in contact with him, so on 7th October, I messaged him, enquiring about Volkov's Spationaute III. Maxim's reply was as follows: Mr. Volkov never told me about this watch. I just called him to ask if he still has it and maybe if he wants to sell it. He cannot remember where this watch is being kept. He may have given it to his younger son Dmitry, or maybe to his elder son Sergey (who is also a cosmonaut). Mr. Volkov promised me to call back as soon as he asks his sons about this watch. I will let you know when I have any information. Thank you for the interest. Regards, Maxim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Although I still haven't found anything even approaching a clear image of Sergei Krikalev wearing a Spationaute III, one must assume (from J-L Chrétien's statement) that as a primary crew member of the Soyuz TM-7 'Aragatz' mission, he was also given one by Yema. Like Jean-Loup, Sergei's exploits in space have inspired a number of fan pages. Run a google seach on alternate spelling Krikalyov* and you'll find Suzy McHale's excellent website returned among the results. Thankfully, Suzy tends to stick to (and majors on) facts - literally reams of them, about her favourite cosmonaut - and refrains from the girlish emotional out-pourings of others, like 'Aragatz'. http://suzymchale.com/krikalyov/ This site is a modest tribute to the greatest spaceman ever!! He doesn’t seem to get the attention he deserves – certainly not in the West .... *(Note: his name is often transliterated “Krikalev”, but is pronounced “Krikalyov”; I generally use the latter spelling.) Indeed, Sergei Krikalev currently holds the record for the longest cumulative time spent in space: 803 days, 9 hours and 39 minutes, or 2.2 years. On his subsequent mission to Mir, an unplanned extended stint of 311 days, from 18th May 1991 to 25th March 1992, Sergei gained the distinction of becoming 'The last citizen of the USSR'. While Sergei stoically chose to remain aboard Mir, effectively stranded by lack of funding to return him to earth on schedule, the Soviet Union was dissolved; he returned to a very different Russia. Well worth a read: http://suzymchale.com/krikalyov/leavearth.html (The last Soviet citizen) In April 2009, Sergei Krikalev was appointed to the prestigious post of Director of the Yuri Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre. See: http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7617 More to follow .... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As I have zero command of the Russian language and wouldn't like to risk using BabelFish or any other online translator, I thought the easiest way to contact Aleksandr Serebrov, or at least try to ascertain the disposition of his Yema Spationaute III, would be through a Russian space collectibles dealer, as I'd done in Volkov's case. So I emailed Alex Panchenko who'd obviously dealt with him previously. I gave Alex a full description of the watch, and attached 3 photos of Serebrov wearing it. The reply came back a couple of days later: I spoke with Alexander Alexandrovich (Serebrov) on the phone and asked him about that French watch. Unfortunately, he doesn't have it anymore. Strike one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aleksandr Viktorenko More to follow .... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To 'space watch' enthusiasts, Michel Tognini is more usually associated with the 7T32-based Yema Antares. However, the fact that he was wearing a Yema Spationaute III (on a non-original leather strap) in his 1992 Soyuz TM-15 press photos, might indicate that he, of all the original Aragatz (back-up) crew members, potentially wore his Spationaute III on a regular basis - possibly for up to 3 years ! Indeed, reading through that ForumaMontres thread once more, I found another reference to Michel wearing one in a family photo: http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t19752-la-saga-yema-spationaute (halfway down, amongst another group of missing images): Mais au poignet de Michel Tognini sur la photo de famille c’est encore la Spationaute III. Like Sergei Krikalev, Michel Tognini attained the pinnacle of his astronaut peer group. In January 2005, Tognini became Head of the European Astronaut Centre (EAC) of the European Space Agency (ESA) in Cologne. He left ESA for retirement in November 2011.
After a few failed attempts, I'm pleased to say that I finally managed to make initial contact with Michel Tognini on 7th February 2013. The speed of his response from sending my introductory message: just 15 minutes later, was outstanding and caught me by surprise. The last line of his message read: Oui, je me souviens très bien de cette montre et je l'ai encore avec moi. A bientôt. Which translates as: Yes, I remember this watch very well and I still have it with me. Talk soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the cosmonauts / spationautes who were given these watches in 1988 seem reluctant to talk openly about them; can't remember what they did with them or simply don't remember them at all, then there is another possible line of inquiry which could be pursued .... The supplier's side of the story. For the past couple of years I've been soliciting input from ex-Yema employees about the C.G.H. era. One of my burning unanswered questions is about the marking of the movements used - Shimauchi Ltd. V906 versus Seiko 7A38(A). To which end, I've already made a number of enquires and usually ended up meeting a brick wall. Even though these watches were a 'strictly limited edition', no doubt at the time, drawings were made, parts lists / bills of materials and other factory records kept - including the exact number made and possibly who they were presented to. Any such paper records are likely to have long since been consigned to landfill, but perhaps they may still exist on microfiche in some dusty archive. Dream on. Somewhere out there, if they're still alive, are the people who made these watches and presented them to the cosmonauts in 1988. Probably the best known ex-Yema manager is Louis-Eric Beckensteiner, whom I have attempted to contact a number of times since 2009, without success. However, it's unlikely that he would be able to give any relevant input, as he didn't join C.G.H. until 1995. The président-directeur général (PDG=CEO) of Compagnie Générale Horlogère (CGH) at the time was Jacques Meyer. He has been described in a book, published in 2002, as 'a French watch industry veteran and the man credited with establishing Seiko in Europe'. As you can see from the article below, Jacques Meyer was relieved of his post in January 1991: http://archives.lesechos.fr/archives/1991/LesEchos/15807-66-ECH.htm The above roughly translates as: Jacques Meyer who was PDG of Compagnie Générale Horlogère (CGH), is no longer acting as "CEO and attorney" of this Japanese Hattori Seiko subsidiary. The presidency has now been entrusted to Ueno Fumitaka, a 42 year old Japanese, who previously held a European marketing post at Hattori Seiko in Tokyo. This change is motivated by "the group's reorganization in perspective of Europe in 1993". This follows the creation, last November, of a "Seiko Europe" structure to coordinate the marketing group. In 1989, CGH achieved a turnover of 600 million francs. It employs over 600 people in the Doubs (Besançon and Morteau) and Paris, where it has its headquarters. It manufactures and distributes watches, alarm clocks and clocks: Seiko, Yema, Jaz, Pulsar, Lorus, Lassale. Hattori Seiko has subsidiaries in Great Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Sweden, and distributors in Spain, Italy, Austria and agencies in Portugal and Greece. Belgium depends on it, the CGH.
In the mid-1990's Jacques Meyer was acting as consultant to Indian watch manufacturer Titan International Marketing (TIME). Ltd. As of June 2012, Ueno Fumitaka is President of Seiko USA. I found this photo, taken at a C.G.H. sales conference in 1987, posted on Copains d'Avant, a major French social networking site. It was uploaded by Paul Dufour, who up until 1987 was the Commercial Manager for Yema (as was): J'aimerais trouver des anciens de LIP de Yema et de Matra Horlogerie surtous des commerciaux. http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/photo_groupe/3235996/395894/force-de-vente-de-cgh_yema/
I did exchange a couple of messages with Paul, but from what I remember he'd left C.G.H. by 1988 - a victim of the new organisation. What is interesting is a link attached to the photo: http://copainsdavant.com/e/yema-395894 where ex-Yema employees can register. The closest I have come to achieving any kind of success was when I contacted Gerald Roden through Linkedin in early March 2011. According to his Linkedin profile, Gerald was the Export Manager for Compagnie Générale Horlogère from 1987 - 1992 (5 years). This is a slightly edited copy of the message he sent me dated March 6, 2011: Dear Paul,
Sorry for my late answer. I worked at Yema a long time ago and actually I am pleased that someone is still interested in that sad story. I loved the brand and its exceptional models. Yema belonged to the Belmont Family. HJ Belmont (the son and MD at that time) is still alive. He The CEO was Jacques Meyer who was also importing Seiko brands into France. The group was then forced to give up all manufacturing of movements in order to buy Hattori movements. At the export dept we developed quite high end watches. While lower priced models were developed for the home market. Most of the chronograph watches have been drawn under my briefs but were too expensive for the local market. The synergy between Hattori and the French group worked for a while but the export market was not strategic for obvious reasons. I left the group in 1991 - I believe at the right moment. Do not hesitate to ask more. I would be more than happy to exchange more on the subject or send you posts of my Yema collection. Best, Gerald. More to follow ....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Further googling (in French) late in November 2012, turned up another interesting Linkedin profile - that of one Christophe Bernard: http://fr.linkedin.com/pub/christophe-bernard/1b/11/957
Lower down his profile I found this: Designer MATRA HORLOGERIE
avril 1983 – août 1990 (7 ans 5 mois)
Designer maison : marques du groupe et private label YEMA ; Pôle NORD , BIPOLES , RALLYGRAF, SPATIONAUTE , AMERICAS CUP ... YVES- SAINT- LAURENT...FERRARI... CARTIER ... Montres, Bijoux, Pendulettes, Lunettes solaires , Ecriture I knew there had to be a connection. More to follow .... | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
Reserved for new photos (of astronauts wearing Spationaute III's) - October 2012 additions. Autographed photo of Aleksandr Serebrov wearing his (http://www.lufkincy.com/Cosmonauts.htm and scroll down).
Similar to the small image sent me by Vladimir Semenov of videocosmos.com on the previous page, taken during Soyuz TM-8 training Aleksandr Serebrov, still wearing his green TK-2 training suit, again talking to Mir's research doctor, Valery Polyakov. (© visualrian.ru)
USSR Cosmonauts Valery Polyakov (left) and Aleksandr Serebrov (right) in a Mir simulator (01/08/1989) Yet another Soyuz TM-7 post landing photo. This one tickled me after the way I'd captioned one such image on the previous page: Polyakov looks like he's trying to slip the Spationaute III off Volkov's wrist, and Krikalev looks rather annoyed with the interviewer !
This particular image came courtesy of fyeahcosmonauts.tumblr.com but is © www.fotosoyuz.ru Anybody fancy a caption contest ? Joking aside for the moment, that Soyuz TM-7 post recovery image intrigued me, because not only did it show Sergei Krikalev from a different angle than those on the previous page, but that he appears to be wearing 3 watches (unlike aboard Mir, when he mostly chose to go bare-wristed). On his right wrist he's wearing an Elektronika-5 LCD digital (like Volkov's); on the middle of his left forearm (over his suit) is the tan leather strap of the Poljot 3133 chronograph which he wore at the launch (clearly visible on the gantry stairs) .... but on his left wrist is what appears to be a large stainless watch, with a blue dial on a black nylon strap. Sounds vaguely familiar ? So I ran a search on www.fotosoyuz.ru - to see what else I could find. I came across a close-up of Krikalev taken from the other side:
But the wrong wrist ! Another tantalizing image, again taken by the legendary TASS news agency photographer Albert Pushkarev on www.fotosoyuz.ru shows the Soyuz TM-7 primary crew members during training at Star City in 1988. The instructor is GCTC chief Vladimir Shatalov.
But whatever Krikalev is wearing on his left wrist is partially obscured by the robotic arm of the Amadeus (solar cell) experiment. Indeed, my complete lack of success in finding any clear photo of Sergei, showing him wearing a Yema Spationaute III has continued. I'd bought a French book about the Aragatz mission 'Hommes des noveaux mondes', published in 1989, co-authored by J-L Chrétien. It was relatively cheap and many of the images contained in it are obviously B&W reproductions of what were originally colour photos. One of them, showing Sergei wrestling with a coil of cable or hydraulic hose possibly shows him wearing a Spationaute III .... Or at least some stainless watch or other, on a black / nylon velcro strap. But it really could just as easily be anything else:
Although the book didn't actually provide one decent image of the cosmonautes wearing a Spationaute III, it did confirm an assumption. On the previous page, under the larger of the two colour photos of the Aragatz crew boarding Soyuz TM-7, prior to launch, I'd written: Aleksandr Volkov is wearing what appears to be a stainless blue-faced watch on a black nylon / velcro strap on his right wrist. In the slightly different B&W shot in this book, taken seconds later, as Volkov gives a last wave, you can't actually see the watch head:
But you can read the white lettering - E M A of YEMA on the underside of the black nylon / velcro strap. So my earlier assumption was correct. Of the three crew members, at least Aleksandr Volkov was wearing a Spationaute III at take-off. And although I'd written this on the previous page, I hadn't totally given up looking ....
Besides, I'm rather doubtful as to whether one would be better able to identify the watches they were wearing just before the launch. If you watch this JT Antenne 2 newsreel footage of the Soyuz TM-7 launch on 26th November 1988 (from approx. 03:35 to 03:50) .... ... although it must be around 3:00pm local time, it's already very dark. So all the press photos were taken using flash guns. These couple of B&W shots are typical of what I'd found previously (both photos © RIA Novosti):
But if you google long and hard enough, something will eventually turn up: http://jacotte26.forumactif.com/t27337-jean-loup-chretien
Le 26 novembre 1988. Jean-Loup Chrétien salue de la main, à la base de Baïkonour alors qu'il monte dans le car qui le mènera aves ses deux co-équipiers soviétiques à l'embarquement à bord de Soyouz-TM7, sa deuxième mission spatiale. Volkov clearly wearing the Spationaute III on his right wrist, as he boards the shuttle bus taking the cosmonauts to the launch pad. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reserved for new photos (of astronauts wearing Spationaute III's) - November 2012 additions. Indeed, my complete lack of success in finding any clear photo of Sergei, showing him wearing a Yema Spationaute III has continued. That failure, more than a month into my quest was bugging me. On 6th November I emailed fotosoyuz.ru and asked if they could help by supplying crops from two of the above photos (fs-PUSHKAREV/11-06/Push-06-11.jpg and fs-PUSHKAREV,11-10,Push-10-112_1). I was astounded by the speed of the responses from a very helpful lady (who wishes to remain nameless). Less than an hour from my initial inquiry, she had provided me with these two image crops. As shots of the watch, one is at best mediocre; the other rather better. Regardless, many thanks again to www.fotosoyuz.ru/ The hi-resolution images were supplied in tif format, which as I recently discovered, Photobucket unfortunately no longer supports. So I had to convert them to jpeg's to be able to upload and link them into this topic, once again resulting in some loss of resolution. .... but on his left wrist is what appears to be a large stainless watch, with a blue dial on a black nylon strap. Sounds vaguely familiar ?
The crop from the original hi-res image wasn't exactly conclusive, but still a pretty good indication of the watch being a Spationaute III. But whatever Krikalev is wearing on his left wrist is partially obscured by the robotic arm of the Amadeus (solar cell) experiment.
But not quite as obscured as I'd first imagined. Although the image is a little grainy, Sergei was clearly wearing a Yema Spationaute III. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reserved for new video footage (of astronauts wearing Spationaute III's). $64K question - Did Jean-Loup Chrétien actually wear his Yema Spationaute III during his 5h 57m EVA on 9th December 1988 ?
See: http://videotheque.cnes.fr/index.php?urlaction=doc&id_doc=20027 In this short C.N.E.S. video at exactly 30 seconds, Jean-Loup is clearly wearing it:
But between 40-45 seconds in, once he has finished donning the thermal undergarment to his Orlan DMA EVA suit ....? Another 12 minutes of archive footage of the Aragatz mission including the EVA, which includes a few tantalising glimpses of the watch: http://videotheque.cnes.fr/index.php?urlaction=doc&id_doc=18489 (between 8:00 and 9:00 minutes in, particularly from 08:50 - 08:55). Whether or not he wore it for his EVA, or if he did lose and later recover it from the Soyuz or Mir, it certainly appears from the opening seconds of this CNES video, showing a part of his memorabilia collection, that Jean-Loup Chrétien still has his Yema Spationaute III. Even if it does happen to be displayed upside down: http://videotheque.cnes.fr/index.php?urlaction=doc&id_doc=23065
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
To the casual observer, it might appear that I have been 'Lost in Space' recently. It's one of the hazards of ex-orbital research. It all started when I began searching eBay on other Spationaute-related keywords, like Aragatz, Soyuz TM-7, Chretien, Volkov, etc.. There is some absolutely mind-boggling stuff out there. However, some of the asking prices can bring you back to Earth with a bump. Amongst the more prolific dealers in Russian space-related artefacts on eBay, is the San Franciso-based 'Maksuta' - Maxim Martynov. I first stumbled across his variously expensive space collectable offerings while searching eBay on Chretien+Volkov ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280467352011 LETTER ONBOARD MIR TO A.VOLKOV FROM CHRETIEN / FRANCE ($1895.00 / £1178)
Many of Aleksander Volkov's own letters are also on offer by this same eBay seller .... and then there's the space apparel: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280833078306 SOKOL KV-2 RUSSIAN COSMONAUT PRESSURE SUIT OUTER LAYER .... ($9495 / £5902)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280958681912 SOVIET RUSSIAN COSMONAUT MUSCLE TRAINING SUIT "PENGUIN" ($2495 / £1551)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270533832969 *FLOWN* MIR COMMANDER A.VOLKOV WORKING SUIT ($3895 / £2421)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280467350743 *FLOWN* MIR COMMANDER A.VOLKOV WORK OVERALLS ($2995 / £1862)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280859729394 33 TRANSPARENT PLAQUES WITH SOVIET AND RUSSIAN INTERCOSMOS SPACE MISSION PATCHES Yours for a mere $19995 (approx. £12,429) !! But the 33 plaques do include 2 full sets of Soyuz TM-7 / Mir EO-4 Aragatz patches:
Much as I'd like to own an original Aragatz mission patch - I think I'll make do with my fake repro' one for the time being, at least. Another dealer specializing in Soviet / Russian space collectibles is Alex Panchenko: http://www.ussr-airspace.com/
It was on his website that I found the 'flown' Aragatz philatelic document shown on the previous page: http://www.ussr-airspace.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2076 There are 'flown' (in space) watches, too - three of them belonging to the same Russian cosmonaut: http://www.ussr-airspace.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=801 Quote: 3 watches worn by board engineer Soyuz TM-16 / MIR-13 expedition Alexander Poleshuk during his 179 days flight in 1993. All mechanical. Ahem. Not quite all, Alex - one of them is a Yema Antares - which is Seiko 7T32 quartz powered. As you can see from the screen capture above, taken on 23rd October, the listing has been amended slightly, but not yet corrected. When I first ran searches on his site, I'll admit I came away with the impression of an overabundance of space philatelic collectibles. So I didn't dig as deeply as I could have. Later I went back, and found this. It's Soyuz TM-8 rather than '7', but still of some relevance. http://www.ussr-airspace.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1744 Strictly 'price on application', no doubt ! There's even an online space books specialist - the unfortunately-named Donald Boggs: http://www.boggsspace.com
A cursory search of his website on 'Aragatz' turned this up:
For a mere $10 (+ postage) I simply couldn't resist buying - on the basis that it might contain that elusive photo of Jean-Loup Chrétien. It didn't. In fact, there wasn't a single photograph in either of the two documents, despite what it may have stated in the blurb above. However, they contain plenty of diagrams / illustrations, and virtually every fact, figure and technical detail about the Aragatz mission. At the back of Document A were a number of annexe pages. Pages 52 and 53 are a list of suppliers, or to give it its full official title: LIST OF FRENCH INDUSTRIALISTS WHO HAVE DEVELOPED SPACE EQUIPMENT OR SUPPLIES FOR THE ARAGATZ PROJECT. The last item on page 53 reads simply: Watch - YEMA 33, Avenue de la République, 75011 Paris. It goes without saying that, just like us 'watch nuts' there are dedicated forums / message boards for space collectors: http://www.collectspace.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi (Warning - even the most basic searches take forever !)
For the incurably afflicted: http://www.spaceaholic.com/links.htm
But that's it - I'm done with space collecting: an Araratz First Day Cover, one of J-L Chrétien's books, the Aragatz document folder and my Belated edit: Ahem. Well almost done. Last week a genuine Aragatz patch came up on eBay with an opening bid price of 3.00 Euros:
Now all I need is a genuine 'flown' Yema Spationaute III. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
I've had some doubts, for a little while now, as to whether the Spationaute III's worn by Jean-Loup Chretien (and other members of the Soyuz TM-7 / back-up crew) were exactly the same as the watch illustrated (with mission flags dial) in that 1989 Yema advertisement. Take another hard look at those two cropped zoomed images from the previous page. J-L Chretien's below, and Serebrov's right:
Yes, they may both have the USSR and French mission flags on the dial underneath YEMA, but something else is slightly different. The grainy images are slightly out of focus, but it's difficult to imagine a '12' at the top of the dial. Now I'm convinced there isn't one. Here's an enlarged still from the opening frames of that C.N.E.S. documentary video, showing a few of Jean-Loup's watch collection. Left to Right: Two Omega Speedmaster Professionals; the Yema Spationaute III (upside-down) and an Omega Speedmaster X-33:
Cropped and inverted (right way up):
It would appear that the '12' at the top was replaced by a large split or double bullet marker to match the other bullet hour markers. Yema used a similar motif, but with slightly different shaped hour markers, on production versions of their ana-digi L5 Spationaute:
This model which came out the following year was powered by Seiko's H601 movement. Unlike the 7T32-based Antares and Altair models which followed, the L5 Spationaute was not worn on any space missions, but merely carried the 'Spationaute' brand name. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
When the print arrives, I'll re-scan it at a higher resolution - or at least the lower R.H. corner, with the image of the watch itself. There isn't anything to be gained, as such, by my attempting to scan the whole page of the original advert. The upper image of Jean-Loup Chrétien on his Aragatz EVA is available in high resolution (1.2MB or 5.2MB) from C.N.E.S. (P14460). See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pkpro/6872198310/sizes/l/in/photostream/ or http://cnes.photonpro.net/cnes/ (search on 'Aragatz'). So here's just the bottom RH corner, as big as it makes any sense to go - @ 150dpi, I've picked up the print dots from magazine page: Note the Yema catalogue sales code: Y1115 - which was actually visible in the low-resolution full page scan I'd uploaded previously. Here's a small crop from the 1989 Yema L'Heure des Héros Flygraf advert. Apart from the incorrect spelling (Flygraph), note Y1116:
Here's a thumbnail image from a current eBay listing, the title of which reads: YEMA Y1008 ADVENTURER WATCH NORTH POLE 1989 PRINT AD
If you've recently bought one of those NOS Yema Spationaute III's from Watchfactory.com, either direct or through eBay .... Your watch will likely have arrived complete with one of these (potentially incriminating) thin card / paper price tags attached. The number shown on this tag is not the sales code. It's a Yema internal SKU # - an extension of the case-back model # N80P76.
I suspect that the watches were shipped from C.G.H. to the US importer / distributor loose, unboxed in bulk, with these tags attached. The lovely laquered wooden boxes that the US distributor supplied them in were made in China - and imported separately from there. While I'm on the subject of price tags, and rambling slightly Something I'd noticed in this old thread on ForumaMontres, towards the bottom, underneath that page from the 1989 Yema catalogue: http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t19752-la-saga-yema-spationaute: Tarif en 1989 de la Spationaute III : 2900F I wonder how the domestic market price of 2900 French Francs equates to the equivalent 1989 US market RRP of $475 ? Unlike Seiko, where we're fortunate they allow limited public access to their database, no such facility exists for these Yema watches. So it's almost impossible to cross-reference case-back model numbers to obsolete Yema catalogue sales codes. Unless you get lucky. In September and October 2010 (as I've posted elsewhere), I bought 2 NOS Yema model N81X26's. One boxed; both came with tags.
The one shown with the plated moulded YEMA logo upwards has the whiter of the two sticky labels, but only has Y1322 printed on it. The other which is rather more yellowed (someone has also scrawled a price on) shows sales code Y1322 and the SKU # N81X26A0. Here's another slightly larger scan of the Yema card / paper tag - inverted with the contrast mildly tweaked:
Look carefully at the top of the white label, above $475.00 - almost hidden underneath it is Y 11 15. Later, I found my other card tag (which I'd temporarily misplaced). On this, Y 11 15 is almost visible:
These tags were attached to normal (early) production Spationaute III's with the 'Y' logo on the dial, underneath YEMA and PARIS. Now, back in 1989, if you'd seen that magazine advert with the Aragatz 'mission flags' dial and catalogue model reference Y1115 .... fancied one - so popped along to your local Yema dealer and quoted Y1115 to him, what would he have tried to actually sell you ? I suspect Yema may have applied a little 'artistic license' by using that image of a prototype Spationaute III in their 1989 advert. That watch is, in effect, a half-way house between the 'mission flags' version supplied to the cosmonauts and the production item. In these more enlightened times, such a misrepresentation might be a matter for the relevant Advertising Standards authority. Apart from those prototypes presented to the Aragatz crews and the 'mission flags' dial which I bought on eBay France, back in 2009, I have never seen any Yema Spationaute III with those flags on the dial - in three years of searching on eBay, LebonCoin, the 'Net, etc. Although there may have been minor variations in dial printing (PARIS and QUARTZ are omitted from later production versions), every other Spationaute III has had the tricoleur 'Y' logo on their dials in place of the flags. Thinking about it - makes eminent sense too. Yema had been taken over by Seiko in 1988 and became part of their French subsidiary C.G.H. (Compagnie Générale Horlogère). Management were keen to break into the lucrative US market. Their first two 7A38-based models were the Spationaute III and Flygraf. Whereas it might have seemed a good idea to run such an advertising campaign for their Spationaute III in France and Canada .... You can bet your bottom dollar that Yema used a different advert in the United States - one that didn't include the 'commy' Soviet flag ! Which is why I believe the watch featured in that advert is an early prototype - and that all Y1115 mass-production carried the 'Y' logo. Don't forget that the 'Fall of Communism' in Eastern Europe had already started by mid-1989 and by the end of 1991 it was all over. It simply would not have made any kind of sense for Yema to produce two versions of the dial - one with flags and the other without. That apart, the two tiny flags on my dial appear to be very delicately hand-painted, as opposed to the normal tampo-printed Y logos. | |
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Regarding that source of mis-information on the previous page .... What is also interesting is the apparent colour of the watch case material. It may possibly be a titanium prototype rather than stainless. I'm trying to find the relevant web pages again, but while googling a while back, I did stumble across a couple of references (in French) to Yema Spationaute III 'en Titane'. It might be the poor cabin lighting, but even the polished mid-section of the case looks matt / dark. Though what little difference a lighter Titanium case might make (as opposed to Stainless Steel) in the weightlessness of space .... http://www.lacotedesmontres.com/actu/Yema-Master-Elements-No_6361.htm (and scroll at least two thirds the way down the page).
Montre Yema Spationaute 3 - 1988
The first 3 bullet points (all factually incorrect, certainly as far as production watches are concerned), translates as follows: Model Spationaute III / Technical Titanium case very light but also very resistant to changes in temperature of the order of 100°. Hesalite glass made a special material, unbreakable. Kevlar strap covered with a composite silk trimmed velcro. I'm almost embarrased to admit that I'd seen that web page many times before - so long ago, that I'd completely forgotten about it. The included photo of a Yema Spationaute III is the first I ever right-clicked and saved. The image in my folder is dated 28/10/2009. The La Cote des Montres blog article, published on 30th March 2008 is a feature about the hideously ugly Yema Master Elements - more specifically about a limited edition of 60 pieces (Valjoux 7750-powered) produced to celebrate 60 years of Yema,1948 - 2008.
The article goes on to acclaim that the watch was designed by a visionary teenager who won a competition .....
Following on from that is a potted history of Yema and important models. Or at least the version according to Louis-Eric Beckensteiner. Louis-Eric (LEB) had joined C.G.H. as General Manager in 1995. He subsequently bought Yema back from Seiko in 2004; re-invented it and ultimately led his re-named company Yema Maison Horlogère Française 1948 to eventual bankruptcy in November 2008. See: http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t50164-les-adieux-de-louis-eric-beckensteiner-president-de-yema The potted history (and list of important models) was a direct feed from the Yema website drawn under LEB's brief, which still exists: http://www.yema.fr but unfortunately, the 'Historique' section has long since disappeared into the ether (along with many images*). The images of watches still viewable on the La Cote des Montres web page, were officially from the Yema factory museum collection. In reality, it seems they were a personal collection that had been built up, presumably actually belonging to Louis-Eric Beckensteiner. A number of these watches were sold off on eBay, a year later, in December 2009, by a newly-created eBay ID - 'lowcostwatches'. They included the Yema Spationaute III pictured above (with the hour hand now re-lumed), and its sister model - a 1989 Yema Flygraf:
The eBay seller was Caroline Beckensteiner - LEB's wife. The Spationaute III was purchased (very quickly) by Hervé Halfen, a French space watch collector and I bought the Yema Flygraf (as a something of a consolation prize, for narrowly missing the Spationaute III). Incidentally, the Spationaute II (in very nice original condition) was purchased by another French space watch collector, Dominique M.
*Getting back on topic again, referring to something I'd written on the previous page, about a significantly important missing image .... The one from the ForumaMontres thread, captioned 'Avec l’aimable participation de Yema. Notez le cadran différent (drapeaux)'. .... which, thanks to 'Jecko' is now albeit somewhat belatedly added as the next post in this topic. It's something of an indictment of Yema's prior indifference to their heritage, particularly during their period of ownership by Seiko, that in re-creating their 'museum', LEB had to resort to using that rather-less-than-pristine Spationaute III as an example of the model. Not only was there a large flake of lume missing from the hour hand, the bezel lume pips badly yellowed and the shark strap shrunken, but from the lack of 'QUARTZ' printed above the seconds sub-dial, it was a mid-to-later production model, possibly from 1992 or 1993. Had it still been in Yema's possession, surely the 'cadran drapeux' prototype from their 1989 advert would have been the one to use. Perhaps I should have re-subtitled these last two posts as: What became of the prototype Spationaute III used in Yema's 1989 L'Heure des Héros ad campaign ?
Hmm. Good question indeed. Could it possibly be that I had inadvertantly bought all that was left of it, on eBay in November 2009 ? | |
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I contacted the OP, Jecko, as far back as December 2009, but sadly he was unable to provide me with a copy of the original image.
I guess he must have got fed up of me badgering him. I've messaged him quite a few times, begging him for that missing image. This evening I recieved a PM through ForumaMontres from 'Jecko' - with this image attached. Enfin
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I wrote back to 'Jecko' thanking him, asking him if he knew the source of the image (other than 'avec l'amiable participation de Yema'). From the yellowing of the right hand side, it's obviously a scan of a page from a catalogue or book - presumably a Yema publication. The image of the 'cadran drapeaux' watch isn't any better than Yema's 1989 L'Heure des Héros advert, but the text is worth analysing.
Novembre 1988 : Départ de la mission franco-soviétiqie ARAGATZ. Le spationaute Jean-Loup CHRETIEN du CNES est équipé de la montre SPATIONAUTE III de YEMA. Literally translates as: November 1988 : Departure of the ARAGATZ franco-soviet mission. The astronaut Jean-Loup CHRETIEN of CNES is equipped with the Yema Spationaute III watch. Implying that he had been supplied with it - NOT that he was wearing it at the launch. No mention of Aleksandr Volkov, naturellement. The copywriter was circumspect in their choice of wording - as in the 1989 Yema catalogue: On board, the Yema Spationaute III watch. The second bullet point: Bôite, lunette acier inoxydable re-confirms the case and bezel and bezel material as stainless steel. So clearly, that mis-information about the 'en titane' titanium-cased Spationaute III was an 'urban myth' created some time later. Now compare that with the slightly smaller image of the Spationaute II which I'd posted on the previous page. Although the page layout is slightly different, the fonts and everything else used is identical, so one can probably safely conclude it came from the same source:
Looking again at the slightly yellowed borders, this is also a scan of a page, likely from the same document as the Spationaute III. In comparison, the rather more specific wording of the text is also worth noting: Juin 1985 : Départ de Discovery, premier vol orbital Franco-Americain avec à son bord le spationaute Patrick BAUDRY du CNES. A son poignet la montre Spationaute II de Yema. Literally translates as: June 1985 : Departure of Discovery, the first Franco-American orbital flight, with Patrick BAUDRY of CNES on board. On his wrist, the Yema Spationaute II. The last bullet point: Musée de l’horlogerie Besançon is worth mentioning, even if it's rather vaguely worded. Presumably Yema had a Spationaute II on display in the 'Museum of Time' in Besancon. See: http://www.besancon.fr/index.php?p=633 Although the watch dials carried the word 'PARIS' under YEMA, Besançon, the capital of French watch-making was Yema's home town. Something of a potted company history of Yema: http://www.chronomania.net/wiki/doku.php/yema 1960's video footage: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfdyr8_yema-horlogerie-a-besancon_news Here's an artist's impression of their Besançon factory, as it was in the 1960's:
Having 'PARIS' printed on their dials obviously 'added value' for Yema, certainly for international export sales, particularly to the USA. They were able to do this by maintaining a prestigious HQ in Paris at 33, Avenue De La Republique, Paris F-75011. There are still various references online, which include their old address. See: http://jewelry.zibb.com/trademark/yema+paris/29348464 and http://www.trademarks411.com/marks/73639603-yema-paris I also seem to remember reading somewhere, that not long after Seiko acquired Yema, and set up Compagnie Générale Horlogère, Seiko management sold off the property, on the basis that this building was more valuable than the rest of the company put together ! This may explain the disappearance of 'PARIS' from their watch dials, notably on later production versions of the Spationaute III. While I'm rambling slightly
The leaflet includes other (then current) Yema models from 1985, besides the Spationaute II. It was produced during Yema's previous ownership by Matra Holdings. Makes me wonder if C.G.H. produced anything similar for their Seiko 7A38-based Spationaute III. Naturally, if any Yema collector reading this has such a leaflet, or any other Spationaute III literature - I'd be interested in a trade. Note on the last page, for both the original Yema Spationaute (I) and Spationaute II, the phrase used 'A son poignet' - 'On his wrist'. So there may, after all, be more than an element of truth in what I unwittingly wrote in my first post on the previous page: Perhaps it was because they were then still a relatively new organization, but Seiko France / C.G.H. didn't appear to capitalize on the opportunity for publicity with their Yema Spationaute III, the way Matra had (with their 2 Spationaute watches). Last night I also stumbled across this 1985 French TV advert on www.ina.fr http://www.ina.fr/pub/habillement-et-textile/video/PUB3784047158/yema-montre.fr.html But I only found one (rather naff) TV advert for Yema from 1988, and it really isn't worth mentioning, let alone including a link. | |
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I regret to report that there have been no significant developments on the 'space flown' Yema Spationaute III front at the time of writing. In the meantime, another somewhat Thanks to input from 'Phil', owner of the superb Russian I'm now able to go back and correct some earlier inadequately researched assumptions that I'd made - such as this statement:
In this alternate pre-launch photo, Jean-Loup Chrétien's left arm is obscured, even if he was(n't) wearing a Yema Spationaute III. Mission commander Aleksandr Volkov (centre) is wearing a stainless LCD digital, possibly a Poljot or Sekonda (copy of a Seiko). See: http://www.netgrafik.ch/elektronika.htm and scroll down the page: Also included in this first wave of digital enthusiasm was Integral Elektronika Factory in Minsk. Their brand name was Elektronika-5 and their first model, 5.202 (module calibre 30350) was a 6-digit LCD with day and date (correcting for short and long months). It remained in production for many years alongside more modern models, including the multi-function 5.207. In the post Soviet era, Integral continued production of the 2nd generation Elektronika-5 models then current, but with new names (e.g. 55B). These are the basis for the current Elektronika and Kamerton ranges. Soviet Integral digitals were sold with the following brand names: Elektronika-5, Elektronika and Sekonda.
My earlier poorly researched incorrect assumptions were obviously based on 'urban myth' and a lightly moistened finger held aloft. In 1977 there was a LCD digital sold under the Sekonda label featuring a world-time function that looked virtually identical to a Seiko produced within the previous year. Was it pirated or a licensed product? Who knows; both possibilities seem equally unlikely. | |
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Enough of the stalling off-topic rambles. It’s about time I got this thread back on topic .... Specifically, the version of Spationaute III supplied by Yema to the Aragatz mission primary and back-up crews in late 1988. Having watched the opening frames of that CNES video showing Jean-Loup Chretien’s watch in the display cabinet - several times and zooming in, squinting hard at a couple of still photographs, I’d already determined that these watches were significantly different. Ideally, as this topic was started as an investigation into Jean-Loup Chretien’s own space-flown Yema Spationaute III, it would have been nice to have concluded with some clear close-up photos of it.
In late September 2012, I’d made initial contact with Jean-Loup and sent him a couple of emails. Perhaps I may have inadvertently antagonised him by my earlier incorrect assumptions and line of questioning. So rather than reply to his last email and directly request if J-L (or his son) could provide photos of the watch, I thought I’d try another tack. Dominique M. is a French space enthusiast whom I knew online through ForumaMontres. Dominique has met Jean-Loup on many occasions, at book signings and conferences. I asked Dominique to intercede on my behalf. He forwarded me one of the emails he sent, where he’d tried to interject some French humour. Sadly Dominique met with no success and later commented on another French space forum about Jean-Loup’s laconic email reply. Even his devoted (read besotted) #1 fan and ardent admirer Caroline ‘Aragatz’ Louineau appears to have ‘given up the chase’ recently. It would seem France’s premier ‘elder spaceman’ is tiring of the constant demands and questions from space enthusiasts.
Meanwhile, I’d already established that neither Aleksandr(s) Volkov and Serebrov no longer had the watches in their possession. I also tried contacting Sergei Krikalev (now head of the GCTC), without success. But as I’d written previously, there was another French astronaut who, as a member of the Aragatz mission back-up crew, was also presented with a Spationaute III and from photos, may possibly have worn it regularly for 3 years (from 1988 to 1992) – Michel Tognini. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Tognini
Why ever did I not think to ask him before ? In the eyes of the French press he was en effet, Le Spationaute IIIème.
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In fact, I had tried to contact Michel Tognini on previous occasions, by emailing through ESA. As I'd written near the top of the page:
Like Sergei Krikalev, Michel Tognini attained the pinnacle of his astronaut peer group. In January 2005, Tognini became Head of the European Astronaut Centre (EAC) of the European Space Agency (ESA) in Cologne. He left ESA for retirement in November 2011.
After a few failed attempts, I'm pleased to say that I finally managed to make initial contact with Michel Tognini on 7th February 2013. The speed of his response from sending my introductory message: just 15 minutes later, was outstanding and caught me by surprise. The last line of his message read: Oui, je me souviens très bien de cette montre et je l'ai encore avec moi. A bientôt. Which translates as: Yes, I remember this watch very well and I still have it with me. Talk soon. On Saturday morning, in response to a subsequent email, Michel very kindly sent me 3 photos of his Yema Spationaute III. The first was quite small - taken using his iPhone:
The next two, also taken by iPhone were larger. I've rotated them both through 90 degrees for clarity:
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The main difference, as I'd suspected, is that these watches don't have '12' printed atop the dial, but that 'double / split bullet' marker. The shape of the other 'bullet' baton hour markers also appears to be slightly different - more angular, pointed and slightly elongated. The more I studied Michel's photos, the more subtle differences I found. Naturally the dial carries the Soviet and French mission flags. But the word P A R I S is stretched out for the full length of the two flags (instead of being condensed as on my factory prototype dial). Although the same font appears to be used, the printing of the numbers on the sub-dials appears to be smaller. All three sub-dials have far fewer sub-division markings. Strangely, the constant Seconds sub-dial is graduated every 2.5 seconds and the 30 Minute counting sub-dial every 2.5 minutes. The 1/10s subdial is logically divided into tenths (instead of the customary twenty increments). The hour, minute, sweep second and sub-dial hands are all different – much more slender than those used on production watches. The main hands are square ended (not pointed). No lume pip on sweep hand. The sub-dial hands are also painted silver not white.
It's difficult to tell from his first small photo, but the engraving of SPATIONAUTE III on the bezel appears to be slightly different. However, surprisingly, the case-back engraving of Michel's watch turned out to be pretty much identical to the production versions. His watch doesn't have the N8OP76 model number etched under CCCP.FRANCE. Instead a serial number '04' is stamped there. The area above vol longue durée where production watches would normally have their 4-digit serial numbers stamped is blank.
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This morning I received some higher resolution photos from Michel Tognini - taken with his Canon digital camera, rather than iPhone. I did tell Michel that there was absolutely no hurry (meaning for him to wait for better natural light), but he seems so keen to oblige. Some were a bit dark; others were out of focus, but I've picked out the best few, the last two of which show what I hoped they would.
These photos confirm everything that I'd previously gleaned, in the way of differences, from examining Michel's earlier iPhone photos. You can see more clearly what I meant by the 'elongated bullet hour markers'. On a normal production Spationaute III dial the points of the bullet markers align with the beginning of the gap in the yellow sub-dial border. On Michel's watch dial they completely overshoot it. This may also be due to the sub-dials themselves being slightly smaller in diameter (compared to the production versions). If you look at the day / date apertures on Michel's watch, their yellow painted outlines extend outside the perimeter of the 1/10s sub-dial border. Another thing I'd previously missed spotting (because it's missing) is there's no 'FRANCE' printed under the seconds sub-dial. It's difficult to tell from his first small photo, but the engraving of SPATIONAUTE III on the bezel appears to be slightly different. Indeed, it turned out to be a completely different font used on the bezel engraving of Michel's watch - more condensed and sans serif. Something else I hadn't mentioned before, because I wasn't sure, is that the bezel lume markers are correspondingly smaller / thinner. | |
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Mille fois Post Script: A few days later, Michel kindly sent me another iPhone photo of his Spationaute III, taken shortly after he'd had the battery replaced, now showing the correct date and time: Friday 15th. At his request, I reminded him how to re-set the chrono' hands to Zero.
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By a funny coincidence, I happened across another photo yesterday afternoon. I was browsing TZ-UK and noticed their 'Watches worn in Space' thread, first started in December 2011 had been bumped recently. http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?196836-Watches-Worn-in-Space/page3 As nobody had mentioned Yema, I thought I'd chuck in my two ha'pence worth and include a link to this thread at the same time. I scrolled back through the thread and came across Renato's (Kutusov) post on the second page about the Elektronika LCD .... and quoted him, adding a couple of photos I'd found of Aleksandr Volkov and Sergei Krikalev wearing them for good measure. Purely on a whim, I decided to see if I could find the source of the small cropped photo of Viktor Afanasyev which he had posted. Spacefacts.de once again provided the answer - it's on their Soyuz TM-11 / Mir EO-8 page - launch date 2nd December 1990. Afanasyev is wearing the Elektronika 5 LCD. Sat next to him is Musa Manarov. But look what Musa is wearing on his left wrist.
Another Yema Spationaute III !! How the heck had he managed to get hold of one ?
The moustachioed Musa (sometimes written 'Moussa') Manarov was not one of the back-up crew for the Soyuz TM-7 Aragatz mission. In fact, he was already onboard Mir when Jean-Loup Chretien; Aleksandr Volkov and Sergei Krikalev arrived on 28th November 1988.
Here Musa Manarov is stood leaning, next to Jean-Loup Chretien (then next L-R: V. Polyakov, S. Krikalev, V. Titov and A. Volkov). He can be seen to be wearing a digital LCD watch, presumably an Elektronika on his left wrist; his hand in his penguin suit pocket.
Source Wikipedia: From December 21, 1987 to December 21, 1988 he (Musa Manarov) flew as flight engineer on Soyuz TM-4. The duration was 365 days 22 hours 38 minutes. From December 2, 1990 to May 26, 1991 he flew again as a flight engineer on Soyuz TM-11. Along with Jean-Loup Chretien and Vladimir Titov, Musa Manarov returned to Earth from Mir on Soyuz TM-6, on 21st December 1988.
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Finding that (cropped) Soyuz TM-11 crew photo with Musa Manarov sporting a Spationaute III prompted me to re-visit Spacefacts.de. Rather than just randomly look for (and possibly stumble across) more photos of cosmonautes who might have worn Spationaute III's, I systematically went through every page and photo link from Soyuz TM-7 (Aragatz) 1988 to Soyuz TM-15 (Antares) 1992, once more. I only found one more B&W image that I'd missed previously and I suspect may have been added to their site fairly recently:
It shows Aleksandr(s) Serebrov and Viktorenko in Sokol flight suits at their Soyuz TM-8 pre-launch interview on 5th September 1989. Serebrov, who we'd seen wearing his Spationaute III during training is wearing it on his right arm, over the sleeve of his Sokol suit. The watch head is fairly indistinct, but zooming in on the photo, the (Y)EMA lettering of the black nylon velcro strap is quite sharp. So it looks as if his watch also flew in space on Soyuz TM-8. More's the pity seeing as the watch's current whereabouts are unknown. However, there is little or no photographic evidence of Serebrov wearing it aboard Mir. As confirmed by Spacepatches.nl's website: With the majority of activities happening outside of Mir, we do not have any pictures which were taken onboard. What continues to intrigue me about that photo is that Aleksandr Viktorenko isn't wearing a Spationaute III. Nor have I been able to find a single photo of him wearing one. Yet as reserve Mission Commander for the Soyuz TM-7 Aragatz mission, like the other two back-up crew members, Aleksandr Serebrov and Michel Tognini, one assumes he surely must also have been presented with one in 1988. Instead in nearly all his photos, including the Soyuz TM-14 mission in March 1992, Aleksandr Viktorenko can be seen wearing that same hereto unidentified dual-head digital LCD watch, also visible in the above photo on his left wrist, which he obviously preferred. My hypothesis, presuming there were only 6 watches presented ? Musa Manarov took a shine to the Yema Spationaute III's he'd seen worn by the three Aragatz crew members aboard Mir. Aleksandr Viktorenko was not particularly enamoured with his; never wore it and at some point in 1990 gave his watch to Musa Manarov. Conjecture perhaps, but a plausible explanation of how Musa got hold of one. If there were actually more than 6 ? Quite justifiably, because they had genuinely completed vol longue dureé (setting a then record for duration in space of just over 1 year), both Musa Manarov (and Vladimir Titov) may have been presented with them after landing. Here's another photo of Musa Manarov wearing his acquired Yema Spationaute III, taken during Soyuz TM-11 Mir training at Star City: Original high resolution image courtesey of and © GCTC: http://www.gctc.ru/media/images/news/2012/kosmonavti/manarov/62-6-9.jpg
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While it's become somewhat academic, now thanks to Michel Tognini's invaluable assistance, we've learnt that the Yema Spationaute III's presented to the Aragatz crews were significantly different - not only to the production versions, but my own 'mission flags' watch .... I wonder how many of those (presumably pre-production) Spationaute III's with the mission flags '12' dial were produced besides.
My eBay 'twin flags' dial had obviously been used. There is a small area of micro-blistering on the 30min counting subdial for starters. Plus the screw-down crown and hands supplied with it were all secondhand. So somebody had broken up a once-complete watch. It didn't occur to me at the time, but this was all that was left of what once had been one of the original Yema factory prototypes. I'd bought it from 'montranciennes' - a French eBay seller named Yves Stoycos who deals in parted-out watch components. Needless to say, I got no joy from him as to the fate of the original watch, nor the disposition of the rest of the parts.
Apart from those prototypes presented to the Aragatz crews and the 'mission flags' dial which I bought on eBay France, back in 2009, I have never seen any Yema Spationaute III with those flags on the dial - in three years of searching on eBay, LebonCoin, the 'Net .... Until earlier today ....
I must have googled Yema Spationaute III hundreds of times over the last couple of years - and particularly so over the last six months. Somehow, this popped up in my search results today - first time I'd ever clapped eyes on it. The photos are from a for sale advert on a French website, last updated in 2006; the image properties show they were taken in October 2005. Sadly, it's long since been sold: http://jacques.raulet.free.fr/picts/_divers/montre_yema_spationautre_III/montre_yema_spationautre_III.html (asking price was 150 € ) No surprise: the main hands are silver painted, with aged lume - much like those which came supplied with my eBay 'mission flags' dial:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Belated update, 21st July 2013: Perhaps these early production versions of the Spationaute III with the 'mission flags' dial aren't quite as rare as I'd first imagined. Eventually, as it was probably bound to, one appeared on eBay in France - funnily enough on Bastille Day http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130947525775
MARQUE: YEMA Spationaute III TYPE: chronometre au 100 eme a quartz ETAT: fonctionnent parfaitement tien l'heure MATIERE: Boitier et fond acier CADRAN:parfait état AIGUILLES: type glaive MECANISME: SEIKO 7A28 parfait état de marche VERRE: mineral rayé DIMENSION: 43MM hors anse et couronne Apart from the seller's basic mistake of calling the movement a 7A28 (instead of a 7A38) , there was the hefty 300 Euro asking price - for the far-from-ideal condition. The seller had stated in their description that the crystal was scratched, but that apart, the bezel was missing the dark blue painted inlay detail, and in the photo of the case-back the engraving appeared to have been all but obliterated.
It was a 10-day listing. I dutifully added it to my eBay watching page, then agonized about it for a week. Too long it would seem. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
Still looking for more photos / video footage of Jean-Loup Chrétien (and other Aragatz crew members) wearing Spationaute III's. I was idly browsing YouTube this afternoon and stumbled across this video uploaded in the first week of March this year, entitled: Jean-Loup Chrétien Aragatz spécial 25 ans .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA8heEKCaSU The video is made up of a number of stills, most of which I'd seen previously, apart from this shot of the crew's pre-launch interview:
Whoever the contributor 'gatzara85' is, they're a little premature - the official 25th anniversary (launch date) isn't till November 26th. Here's a link to their other 10 videos - unsurprisingly, all dedicated to J-L Chrétien: http://www.youtube.com/user/gatzara85/videos Oddly enought, this user signed up to YouTube on 26th November 2011. I strongly suspect that it's Caroline 'Aragatz' Louineau. Warning - do not click on links unless you can tolerate Frog-Rock. Belated edit: Here's another photo of the Aragatz mission crew's pre-launch interview I found online much later:
It's somewhat clearer, but has obviously been reproduced the wrong way round - possibly from a slide transparency. Once again Jean-Loup Chrétien and Aleksandr Volkov can be seen wearing their Yema Spationaute III's on their left and right wrists (respectively - but in reverse). Alas Sergei Krikalev's remains mostly hidden under the cuff of his undergarment. | |
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Which is a great pity in view of the couple of super photos I'd found of Serebrov wearing it. 
Now, if only that had been as clear a shot of what Sergei was wearing on his left wrist. 
for satisfying my curiosity !
.... Y1008 being the Yema catalogue model number.
(once again) I may as well chuck this little snippet in here.
.... Here's a Q&D photo of those same 2 tags:
Jean-Christophe !
Times watch website: 
July 14th 2013:
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