Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Hi,

Does anybody know, is this bezel the same size as the one for 7A38-7010 (Tachymeter bezel)? Can they be swapped? 

Or maybe I should ask Harold to create one for that model too?

Regards,

Adrian

Hi, Adrian. Without checking - off the top of my head, I think the Tachymeter bezel insert of the 7A38-7010 is slightly smaller diameter.

But why would you want to fit a 'Diver's' 0-60 bezel insert in place of a Tachymeter scale ?

You could try asking Harold about the possiblity of creating one, but I think you'd have an uphill struggle to justify it.

The insert he's just done will suit several Seiko 7Axx models: the 7A28-7040 / -7049 (both of which were big sellers worldwide), plus the 7A38-7070, 7A38-7075 (ZFM), 7A38-7080 and 7A38-7085 (ZFM).

The insert you are proposing is only used in the 7A38-7010. Although they may look very similar at first glance, the inserts used on the 7A38-701A and 7A38-701B are slightly different colours.

Hi,

Thanks for the quick response. Indeed from pictures seems smaller and, you are right, it should not be right to put the diver bezel instead. Mine seems to be scratched a lot (it is still in shipping, can wait to have it here). Maybe better to just keep it original, but I will send Harold an email anyway, who knows, maybe he can do something for me. I know that for some 6139 there were stickers to apply on top, maybe I can find one for this too, good to protect the original underneath bezel anyway.

Regards,
Adrian

Just a quick update on this topic.

Yesterday I had a chat with Harold (yobokies) about the 7A28-7040 (7A38-7070) bezel inserts. He said they are now available.

Good luck!

Good news, Arpad.  Harold's not posted anything on WatchuSeek or SCWF yet - so you heard it here first. 

Seiko7A38 at September 30, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Well, it took a little longer than anticipated, but this morning I received an email from Harold Ng (Yobokies) with the attached photo. 

The worn insert at the bottom is presumably the original Seiko insert, removed from his 7A28-7040, that Chris sent him as a pattern.

Expect official announcements on SCWF Trading Post and WatchUseek soon. Harold's email address is yobokies@yahoo.com.hk

Form an orderly queue, Gentlemen. 

A belated edit, to clarify the foregoing:

The Yobokies repro' 7Axx inserts in the above photo are the first two samples that Harold has received from his supplier. He did not send those inserts to me (as one forum member had incorrectly assumed) - just that photo of them. Harold asked for my opinion; I told him I thought they looked pretty good (or at least as well as one can tell from a photo). On that basis, Harold has instructed his supplier to proceed with making up the first batch of 30. They should be available in a couple more weeks. The price will be $26 each (posted).

No apologies for the quote and re-post. 

To reiterate for the benefit of anybody who may be interested, these Yobokies repro' bezel inserts should fit the following Seiko 7Axx's:

7A28-7040 (normal export model and the JDM version), 7A28-7049, 7A38-7070, 7A38-7080 and the ZFM 7A38-7075 and 7A38-7085.

Order placed ...........

Seiko7A38 at December 2, 2013 at 7:19 AM

Good news, Arpad.  Harold's not posted anything on WatchuSeek or SCWF yet - so you heard it here first. 

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f30/fs-custom-bezel-inserts-your-seiko-new-7a28-6217-black-po-sumo-available-950770.html

FS: Custom bezel inserts for your Seiko(new 7A28, 6217, black PO for Sumo available)

7A28/38 replacement bezel inserts US$27 each:

Prices already include registered air mail postage. If you want faster service, you may go for: EMS US$22(US/Asia) or US$26 (UK/Canada) extra (elsewhere, please ask), insurance at cost. (not responsible for lost/damage in mail or held-up with customs). Shipment takes about 10-14 days from Hong Kong to the States or 4-5 days to the UK.

Paypal only: yobokies@yahoo.com.hk

In preparation for the new bezel, I thought I'd take the old one out. The patient is a 7A38-7070 with a 'worn' and 'faded' bezel insert (to put it mildly).

the perfect candidate.

I've not removed a bezel insert before and I wasn't really sure what to expect. First I removed the bezel itself

I'd assumed that the insert just pushed out, but there seemed to be a metal ring in the way which meant I had to find a way of getting between this and the insert itself.

I think I remember Paul mentioning the use of a scalpel blade, so I used this to get between the ring and insert and slowly run round the circumference.

I'd also assumed it might be held in with double sided tape (it wasn't). Once I'd got under it it came out easily.

there is a very thin stainless ring insert that sits under the bezel insert.

Here's a a side on view of the insert

I just need to wait for the new ones to arrive.

The thickness of the bezel insert from my 7A38-7070 is approx. 0.88mm and the stainless shim approx. 0.15mm.

Here is the update....I have received a letter from Harold this afternoon. Oh, I'm very excited

Lets see what's inside:

Closer look:

After the replacement:

Sorry, but I did't take any photos during the replacement process. Actually it was very easy to pop in the new insert. I was slightly scared that Harold's bezels may have some differences in size. (It's a former experience with my Arnie bezel insert also came from Harold)

This time I was wrong the 7A28 aftermarket bezel is perfect! Took me 15-20 minutes to do the job. Well worth the money.

Now I'm excited!!!!

That looks very good Arpad. I'll post my pics soon ......

My letter from Harold arrived today 

Just ordered a couple of Harold's inserts myself - while there's still some left. 

Here's my 7A38-7070

Harold has done a superb job with these.

There always was a potential downside to making these Yobokies repro' inserts available to the general public (as opposed to a one-off purchase of 30 pieces by members of this forum) - and that was the effect their availability might have on future market values. 

Fitting one of these repro' inserts to a rough-ish 7A28-7040 / -7049 or 7A38-7070 could transform them in the eyes of a prospective buyer (presuming they weren't too careful in their examination of the overall general / cosmetic condition of the rest of the watch).

The first such 'victim' - an otherwise only average condition 7A28-7049 fitted with a Yobokies repro' insert appeared on eBay today:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Seiko-Sports-100-7A28-7049-Quartz-15-Jewel-Chronograph-Diver-Mens-Watch-/261362574832

I've flagged it and written about it in more detail, in my two newest posts in this pre-existing thread in the eBay section:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7741323-original-bezel-i-think-not-caveat-emptor-

An ideal recipient for a Yobokies insert perhaps ? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141260171213

Seiko 7A38 Chronograph Watch, Project

Beautiful chronograph watch in stainless steel.

Black dial with dark grey sub dials.

Day and date display.

Running well and keeping good time.

15 jewel movement, Cal. 7A38. 

Requires new glass and bezel insert. There is no glass or bezel insert fitted. 

Present is the original nylon glass gasket. This may be re-usable.

The watch runs and keeps good time, however the minute register does not operate (left of the 3 sub dials). At this present time, Cousins watch supplies show a circuit block that may sort this. Please check this for yourself. 

Day not fully changing, date operates OK 

The watch shows general signs of use, inline with its age. Some signs of re-finishing to case and case back. Still looks amazing. 

Watch will be well packed for shipping.

Pity it appears to have been buggered about with already.  Presumably by a failed would-be tinkerer who gave up on it. 

Seiko7A38 at December 13, 2013 at 9:10 AM

Just ordered a couple of Harold's inserts myself - while there's still some left. 

Here's another ideal candidate for a Yobokies repro' bezel insert: another 7A38-7070 - I knew they'd come in handy one day. 

This was the eBay seller's primary photo:

See also my 'as recieved' wrist shot, posted in the WRUW thread earlier this morning.

Having been one of the instigators, along with Chris '7ARCool', of Harold Ng's (Yobokies) 7Axx repro' bezel inserts (IIRC, Chris first kicked off the idea back in June 2013, though it took nearly 6 months to come to fruition) I thought it was about time I documented my own experience of fitting one. I'd bought two, when they first became available in December 2013, but apart from ear-marking one of them for a long-term 7A38-7080 resto' project, until a week or so ago, I hadn't made any immediate plans to use the other.

Then I saw the above 7A38-7070 listed on eBay UK with a very tatty insert and thought it would make the ideal candidate.

What I hadn't reckoned with was some of the other difficulties I would encounter, bringing the watch back up to scratch. 

Once I started stripping it down and examining it closely, it became obvious the watch had suffered various other ingnominies. 

Like the pushers, which according to the eBay seller seller's subsequent email reply to my complaint: 

All the pushers compressed and retracted as I checked using a lupe and I did not notice any marks.

I suspect that he (or some other person) used a pair of pliers (rather than a loupe), because all three were nearly seized solid ! 

Not just clogged up with muck, but rusted and corroded inside - the seals had disintegrated into some black tar like substance.

The bracelet had been well bodged in a few places too. Bent pins; some links centre-dotted on the reverse of their outer hinges, some held in by Araldite (obviously never neard of Loctite) - and then there was that home-made replacement link pin - bent naturally.

But I digress ....

The bezel itself was stuck solid - wouldn't budge a notch. When I eventually managed to lever it off, I found it was clogged solid with muck and rust. The original aluminium insert was corroded on its underside and stuck firmly to the shim and the edges of the bezel. I couldn't even get a scalpel blade underneath it, to start with ! In the end I gave up and pressed it out of the bezel using suitable diameter nylon dies in my crystal press. That hasty act distorted the old bezel insert, but thankfully the shim came out perfectly flat.

After I'd finished cleaning up all the components (the pushers took ages - I'd have ordered new ones, if Cousins had them in stock), I started to re-assemble the watch head. When it came to re-fitting the bezel - and the replacement insert, I referred back to this thread, but couldn't see anywhere where Arpad or Simon had written how they'd actually done it. So here's how I went about it ....

First I replaced the scratched crystal (wary of the crystal bevel edge / insert clearance issue); I naturally used a genuine Seiko p/n 310W64GN00. Then I greased the new bezel retaining O-ring and track and pressed the empty bezel back onto the case. Then I dropped the shim into place and carefully pressed the insert home into the bezel, using gentle finger pressure. I did it that way round, rather than assembling the complete bezel first, so as not to risk damaging or distorting the aluminium insert during fitting (particularly when using a new O-ring, it can sometimes take a fair bit of effort to re-fit the bezel) - plus it's easier to ensure that the bezel pip perfectly aligns with '12'. As I think Arpad wrote in his post, it really does click into place beautifully - an absolutely perfect fit. 

I didn't take any WIP photos this morning, because my camera's battery was on charge (again).  But here's the finished article:

.... and a different wrist shot to the one I posted in the WRUW thread earlier this afternoon:

So am I pleased with the result ? On the whole, Yes - the Yobokies replacement insert has transformed the watch's appearance. 

However I am congizant that it is an aftermarket repro' part and when (and if) I come to sell the watch, I will describe it as such. 

Not wishing to detract at all from Harold's efforts, I thought about these inserts when I read these two threads on SCWF recently:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/34-watchmaking-tinkering/145730.html Those pesky bezel inserts that no one makes.

http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japanese-watch-discussion-forum/116058.html .... 62MAS Correct style bezel inserts .... 

The latter thread criticises Yobokies' 62MAS aftermarket bezel inserts - but there's shades of OCD by the OP, if you ask me. 

Having said that, I found myself comparing Harold's 7Axx repro' insert (the other spare one) to the battered original one I'd removed:

The obvious difference, which first caught my eye a while ago, was the lume pip - or more correctly the plastic lens that covers it.

But notice also the difference in the thickness of the fonts - particularly the 'Zero's.

Here's the just-fettled 7A38-7070 fitted with the Yobokies bezel insert (left) next to a completely original example:

But then again, if you look at Simon's 'before' photo, the numbers on his old very faded insert were much thinner:

Food for thought ?