Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

The two-tone 7A38-7060 is one of the most commonly found 7A38's on eBay Germany; where they frequently sell at auction for less than 100 Euros. This one, listed yesterday evening with an over-optimistic Buy-it-Now price of 150 Euros may catch someone out. Although in the head on view, the watch looks almost correct, it's fitted with a non-original Seiko bracelet - a fact that the seller conveniently omits from his description. The obvious giveaway being the short non-adjustable clasp.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272812212057

Aus meine Sammlung bitte ich ein Seiko Chronograph.Die Uhr funktioniert einwandfrei und ist im sehr gute Zustand. Nach dem verkaufe keine Garantie und Rückgabe. Es ist Privat verkauf.

In that last photo, you can just make out the stampings B17 and 07.E on the tabs of the end pieces, which identifies this bracelet (in two-tone form) as a Seiko p/n B1707C - normally found on the similar appearing 7T32-7B30 SDW188J.

Here's what the correct p/n G1105C bracelet on a 7A38-7060 looks like:

O.K., so it's been 6 months since I last updated this thread. 

It's not that I've lost interest, or that I haven't seen any 7Axx's fitted with incorrect replacement bracelets. Far from it - it seems to be becoming quite commonplace, but that doesn't make it any more palatable, nor right.

So why should I bother to menion this 7A28-703B that was listed earlier today, by a UK seller ? Mostly because he's asking a hefty £495 for it as a Buy-it-Now. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173193524338

Here's just 3 of the seller's photos:

There's no hint of it being fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet in the seller's description:

Vintage Mens 7a28 703b Seiko Quartz Panda Chronograph Watch ,

Fully working order including all chronograph functions,

Comes complete with extra Links , inner and outer boxes,

Only selling due to the fact I am downsizing my watch collection,

Very Good Condition for age,

UK postcodes only.

Will be sent Royal Mail Special Delivery.

It's not as if it's the only such wrong 'un on eBay at the moment, either. 

Here's another 7A28-703B fitted with a similar-looking incorrect replacement bracelet, offered by a Mexican eBay seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//282868258086

Again, here's just 3 of the seller's photos:

And this one categorically states in his description:

ALL IN WATCH ITS ORIGINAL, NO AFTERMARKET PARTS.

For the benefit of any readers who don't know what the correct Seiko p/n B1074S bracelet for a 7A28-703B (or the US market version 7A28-7039) looks like, it's fairly distinctive with those matt black inlays.

This supposedly 'NEW OLD STOCK' (with tags) gold-tone 7A38-7289, listed by a US eBay seller a couple of days ago both annoyed and intrigued me in equal measures - and not just because it's fitted with the wrong bracelet. There's that stupid $399 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price for starters !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152973712732

THIS IS A VINTAGE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH WATCH MODEL 7A38 7289 A6. IT'S SOLD WITH THE BOX AND IS UNWORN. THE CASE IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION, THERE IS ONE TINY DING ON THE CASE NEAR THE 4 O'CLOCK HOUR MARKER AND CAN BE SEEN IN THE PHOTOS, IT'S TINY. THE CRYSTAL IS PERFECT AND THE MOVEMENT IS CLEAN WITH A FRESH BATTERY. THE SEIKO PRICE TAG FOR $295 IS STILL ON IT. THE CASE MEASURES 37 MM WITHOUT THE CROWN BY 42 MM LUG TO LUG. GREAT WATCH! THE BAND FITS AN 8.5 INCH WRIST AND CAN BE ADJUSTED DOWN.

Although the watch comes with a Seiko hang tag and the $295 R.R.P. shown on it probably would have been about right at the time, it's not the correct tag for this watch (head), whose sales code was SAA112J. SMR326(J) was a 7430-5499 - a contemporary gold tone quartz anologue watch with a black dial. I suspect this tag may actually belong to the bracelet, whose Seiko part number was B1252G, though there's no sign of that number stamped on the underside of the end links.

What annoys and frustrates me, is I'm sure I've seen this very same watch, fitted with the same incorrect bracelet somewhere before, possibly previously listed by another eBay seller, but for the moment, at least, I can't figure out where and when. 

Here's a bit of a naughty one. This stainless 7A38-7090 fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet was listed yesterday evening by a German eBay seller. It's not easy to identify with 100% certainty, because the seller has conveniently cropped the case-back photo so you can't see the stampings on the back of the bracelet, but it looks suspiciously like a Seiko p/n Z1460S normally found on a 7A38-6080.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253683194624

The seller's brief description makes no mention of the bracelet whatsoever:

Seiko Gronograph Herren Armbanduhr mit leichte Gebrauchs Spuren

Here's what the correct Seiko p/n Z1209S bracelet on a 7A38-7090 looks like:

This one's not so much undisclosed (per the topic title) as falsely claiming it's the original bracelet in their listing title. This 7A38-702H, fitted with what is so obviously an incorrect replacement bracelet, was listed yesterday evening by a US eBay seller. You've really got to wonder sometimes.  Is this a deliberate attempt to deceive, crass stupidity or just plain old-fashioned ignorance ? Check out the big T logo on the clasp (that's Tissot). 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283214106470

SEIKO 7A38-702H SPORTS 100 CHRONOGRAPH

Overall good condition, there is a scratch on back as noted in picture.

A scratch ?  That nastily graunched case-back belongs in this other thread too !

Lately, there are so many Seiko 7Axx's listed on eBay, fitted with non-original replacement bracelets, that I simply don't have the time to keep this thread regularly updated in the manner that I should. However, there are times when I will make the extra effort, particularly when I see such blatant greed and deliberate deception or omission by the seller.

This common-or-garden (not rare by any stretch of the imagination) stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with a fairly obvious non-original bracelet (likely off some lighter Seiko LCD model) was listed earlier today by a greedy would-be profiteering Cypriot eBay seller, with a ludicrous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of £400 and no option to make a (much lower) offer that it warrants.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283274041366

Selling my Vintage Seiko 7a38 - 7270. The watch has been professionally serviced by seiko expert watchsmith.

All functions are working perfectly chrono resets back to zero with no hesitation, pushers also are in excellent working condition. It has an original full length seiko bracelet (8+ inches).

This is a true collectors item.

Look at the photos because they are part of the description.

Please contact me if you have any more questions.

What makes me even angrier (with myself), is that I'd already seen this very same stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with the same incorrect bracelet, back in June, when it was previously listed and sold (for considerably less), by an Italian eBay seller.

For those who don't know what the correct original Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet looks like, her's a repost of my most recent wrist shot of my 7A38-7270 beater - the 10 Quid Christmas Eve 2014 score. 

Earlier this afternoon, the would-be Cypriot eBay seller of that risibly over-priced 7A38-7270, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet, ended his listing, because the item was allegedly no longer available. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/283274041366

Which is of course complete horse sh!t, because literally less than a minute later, he re-listed it on eBay.com with a 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of  $500 ! 

The first two photos in this 'new' listing are borrowed from his previous listing (they're slightly cropped versions of the 2nd and 4th images). So I haven't bothered uploading them. The other five are new, taken today. Unfortunately, he's been clever enough to hide the bracelet part number stampings, thereby foiling any attempt to identify it. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283282562355

He's embolded the deliberately misleading sentence in his original description:

It has an original full length seiko bracelet (8+ inches).

Yes, it may be an original Seiko bracelet, but not original to this watch. 

Here's a bit of a naughty one. This stainless 7A38-7020, in generally poor and worn condition was listed this afternoon, by a Thai eBay seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of $350. To the unwitting potential buyer, the bracelet fitted may look correct - it fits nice and tightly and is almost the same width where it meets the watch case. Note the use of the standard deliberately misleading phrase in their description:

& comes with original Seiko band. Yes, it's Seiko - but not original to this watch !

The last two photos show it stamped with Seiko p/n C236 - making it off something much older. If you don't know what the correct Seiko p/n B1171S bracelet used on a stainless 7A38-7020 / -7029 looks like by now, there probably is no hope for you. 'Cos I ain't re-posting yet another photo of one of mine ! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192744165178

THIS IS NICE & RARE VINTAGE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH SPORTS 100 MODEL 7A38-7020 MEN'S WATCH , Dimensions of Case: 38.5 x 43 mm (Excluding Crown). Chronograph functions start/stop/reset working properly 100%. Quick set day/date functions does works. Quartz movement is running accurately and can tell good time. All function works great 100%. Nice crystal - without scratches. Original dial in excellent condition & comes with original Seiko band. I just replaced a new battery to this watch too. This watch will be able fit to large wrist size too.

**** IMPORTANT FOR BIDDER / BUYER **** PLEASE READ MY DESCRIPTION AND PAYMENT POLICY CAREFULLY BEFORE BID OR PURCHASE. FOR 0 (ZERO) FEEDBACK BIDDER PLEASE CONTACT ME BEFORE BID MY ITEMS. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME AND I WILL RESPOND WITHIN 24 HRS.

****PAYMENT**** : PLEASE NOTED THAT I accept only PAYPAL. **** SHIPPING**** : $15 for shipping to Worldwide by DHL with tracking number. Buyers to contact within 3 days. Payment should be settled in 5 days after auction ends. I will ship within 24 hours of receipt of payment. Thanks for watching and bidding.

Sometimes I really do wonder why I bother writing up this stuff at all. 

It's already been sold in the early hours of this morning. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192744165178

WatchCount.com's Look-Up tool reveals it sold for a best offer of $300. 

The eBay Purchase History shows that was the sole offer. It only ever takes one.

UK eBay seller ianwoodland63 a.k.a. 'Woody's watches' is currently selling off (or should I say 'attempting to' sell off) what once was the Seiko 7Axx collection of John 'The Tiger' Bentley of SCWF fame. Some of you may have already read in the 7A38-xxxx Model Specific section, where I'd commented adversely on a couple of them already. Woody is a dealer, asking typically over-inflated top end prices, for rather less than stellar examples and in some cases mis-representing them. That makes him fair game in my book. He's also a little too fond of using the word 'original' - as I've already pointed out on a couple of the 7A38's. He wouldn't know original if it bit him in the ass. I'll refrain from commenting on his literary abilities.

John's collection (at least what's currently being offered by Woody) comprises:

3 x 7A28's, 2 x 7A34's, 7 x 7A38's and a 7A48. Here's Woody's photo of them.

Woody listed John's 7A28-7049 over a week ago. Can't say I'd looked that closely at it before. I'd noticed his inclusion of the word 'SPEEDMASTER' in the title and thought no more of it. Typical of the keyword spamming that's sadly rife on eBay nowadays. Of course, there's no such thing as a 7A28-7049 SPEEDMASTER. Yes, the JDM version of the 7A28-7040 has a SPEEDMASTER logo'd clasp (and a slightly different dial), but this wasn't one of those. Just a common-or-garden US market 7A28-7049. There's half a dozen of them listed on eBay in the States at the moment. Some nice ones too, unlike this example.

I did think to myself what a ridiculous asking price though. £650 Quid FFS !!

That's MORE THAN DOUBLE what it's actually worth in the real world. Look at the discoloured dial lume and the scratched and worn bezel insert for starters. Let me qualify that: it might be, on a good day, if it was also fitted with the correct bracelet.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332931848118

Seiko 7A28 - 7049 Speedmaster from june 1987 i think comes with a nice seko box from the time of the watch.

I have never sold one like this not sure what it's worth but its cost me for a full service so that's in the price and its got a nice box! this watch has been part of a large collection i have about 80 others to sell all nice watches keep a eye on this site for more fabulous watches coming soon from woodys watches on eBay please see my eBay shop open red door or go on vist shop all my info

In stunning but original condition ie has marks as any watch of this age has if its been used

Serviced 2 weeks ago a real full service not just a quick oil

Battery and gaskets were replaced

Movement is clean

All functions are working well all hands hit zero

Accuracy is is good

Hard to find in this original condition i have 5 other all original 7a28 to sell see last photo of a few others all coming up on sale by eBay from woody watches YOU ONLY GET THE ONE IN THIS LISTING

Dial and hands all very nice and original as far as i know would be hard to find many like it now that have not had so many aftermarket parts or over restored

Crystal is very good this is a original one for watch as far as i know is all original not polished but has a few small marks

Case looks clean but has some dings and scratches its all original as well never polished .

Caseback has few signs of use from some dings or scratches.

Bezel as it should be all original has dings and scratches not bad if you want mint not for you

Bracelet has only few signs of use and again is the sq original one will fit 7.6 just or less

Clasp is in used condition but has marks as you can see

Details and measures:

Seiko 7A28 - 7049 Speedmaster

15 jewels quartz movement the world's first analogue quartz chronograph.

41mm diameter bezel is 39mm

44mm lug to lug

10mm thick

Bracelet will 7.6 inch wrist only just or less

Please note:

This is a vintage watch and is over 31 years old. It has sign of use. Not really that visible or your wrist . It is imho in really nice condition just how i like them myself all original.

Like I said, I hadn't looked that closely at the photos before tonight. I hadn't even bothered to scroll past the first couple of wrist shots. I should hope that anybody who's familiar with 7Axx's knows what the correct Seiko p/n B1075S bracelet on a 7A28-7040 / -7049 looks like. Instantly recognizable by those 'hinges' between the links. The p/n AA58A bracelet used on the JDM 7A28-7040 is virtually identical, apart from the SPEEDMASTER logo'd clasp. But the incorrect bracelet fitted to the ex-John Bentley 7A28-7049 isn't one of those, either.

Even though you can't see the part number stampings on the back of the bracelet, in Woody's photo of the case-back, it's not exactly difficult to identify the incorrect bracelet. That is once you've actually bothered to look at the photos. The SPEEDMASTER logo'd clasp is a clue. It's a p/n YA16A off a JDM 7A28-7010 !

I hadn't bothered adding Woody's listing for that 7A28-7049 to my eBay watching page - I've got too much crap cluttering it up already. But by chance, I happened to notice he'd pulled the listing, late this morning as 'item is no longer available'. He doesn't appear to have made any attempt to rectify it, with regard to the incorrect bracelet (and pricing) - no revisions were made. Perhaps he succumbed to a lowball 'back door' offer.  Or maybe had a 'toys out of pram' moment. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332931848118

This highly over-polished 'turd' of a stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with an unidentified non-original Seiko replacement bracelet, was listed in the early hours of this morning, by a US eBay seller, with a risible 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $575 ! The appropriately named seller is clearly looking to ream some mug punter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113527224698

SEIKO 7a38-7270 in very good condition, please check the pictures. Recently serviced.

Scroll back up the page for a reference photo of my stainless 7A38-7270 'cheap beater' on the correct original B1615S bracelet. Its watch case may be a little shinier than it should be (through normal wear), but nothing like this bauble. 

In hindsight, perhaps I could alternatively have given this thread the title:

Yet another 7A38-7020 on an undisclosed non-original bracelet ... 

There've been so many of them lately, that when I saw this one, listed by an Italian eBay seller, last month, (fitted with what was so obviously the wrong bracelet)* and asking 550 Euros - I thought to myself: Nah - nobody will fall for that.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202607019800

*In fact this seller does clearly state in his description:

It comes with a generic stainless steal (sic) bracelet compatible with the original like you can see from the pictures.

By chance I happened to look at it again yesterday and it's now got 56 watchers !!

But not all sellers are quite so forthcoming honest. There was yet another stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original replacement Seiko bracelet, listed by another Italian eBay seller a couple of days ago. He was asking 485 Euros as a Buy-it-Now.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292998398881

Mythical Seiko 7a38 7020.

Seiko 7A38-7020, is sold as a functioning one to be repaired.

Time function and date change work perfectly but the chronograph reset button requires a revision.

Sold as it is.

Payment: only PayPal to friend.

Gotta love the last bit !   

The Italian eBay seller re-listed it yesterday, with a fresh set of photos and his risible 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now asking price 'reduced' to 480 Euros. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292999155487

Although his new primary image is out of focus, the shot of the case-back is a little sharper. The non-original replacement bracelet fitted is a Seiko p/n C236 - the same as the previous example in my post higher up this page, dated December 1, 2018.

Here's yet another stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet. Listed less than half an hour ago by a UK eBay seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of £300. The bracelet fitted is not original as stated, but in fact that regulary used familiar fall-back replacement - a Seiko p/n Z1357S.

http:///www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273826125822

This is a lovely watch, from the 80's I think. It is in fine condition with light scratching on the glass.

The bracelet is also original and in excellent condition. The watch is fully functional.

The date can be in English or French.

I do not have a box unfortunately or an instruction manual.

Postage is included on a Royal Mail signed-for basis, to UK mainland.

Other shipping would be by quotation.

This is turning into an epidemic.  Yet another stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with an incorrect replacement bracelet, was listed this morning by a French eBay seller, with a now typically laughably optimistic 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 750 Euros, or the option to make an offer. The seller's photos may be small, but it's not difficult to identify the wrong bracelet as yet another Seiko p/n Z1357S. However, this one may catch someone out, because it's been fitted with the correct style Seiko SQ 7-hole adjustment clasp (presumably salvaged from the original p/n B1171S bracelet).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273831097794

Beau chrono acier SEIKO quartz 7A38 complet d'origine. Fonctionne parfaitement, pile neuve, brossage et polissage de la montre avant livraison. Tour de bras 21cm (homme).

I haven't updated this thread in over a year - shame on me. There are still loads of 7Axx's being listed on eBay, fitted with incorrect replacement bracelets. Many are so obvious as to not warrant mentioning. Some sellers falsely claim that they are 'Original Seiko' (which they may well be - just not original to that particular watch). Others say nothing, other than 'Study the photos, as part of the description'.

This example falls into the 'so bleeding obvious' category. I wasn't going to bother to mention it, but it intrigued me. Please excuse my copying and pasting this next paragraph of text that I've used in a few other threads recently.

Over the past few days, an Italian eBay seller ervin.pepa listed a number of 7A's. He appears to be selling off a collection. Generally speaking, they're all typically speculatively over-priced for their condition, regardless. His favourite price point appears to be an exceedingly ambitious 600 Euros.

One of those watches, typically well over-priced for its condition @ 600 Euros, was this well-worn stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with a non-original generic replacement bracelet, which has been fitted with a 7-hole Seiko SQ clasp (in his last photo of the Z-fold, you can see pliers crimp marks on the bracelet pin tubes):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124185702612

Vendo dalla mia collezione privata questo bellissimo e raro orologio in ottime condizioni. 

Seiko Quartz Chronograph Ref. 7a38-7020

Meccanismo al quarzo perfettamente funzionante con batteria nuova.

Cassa in acciaio inossidabile. Cinturino originale in acciaio inossidabile

Privo di scatola e documenti. Spedizione tracciata.

The description is his usual standard 'copy and paste', that he's re-used in a number of recent listings, complete with the same incorrect model number and false claim of the bracelet being original and that it's in 'ottime condizione' (which it patently isn't). Note the 12 photos uploaded unusually don't include one of the watch's case-back.

After I'd looked at the photos a couple of times, I began to get that feeling of Déjà Vu. I may have an almost photographic memory, but it wasn't the random incorrect replacement bracelet that I recollected seeing before, but the ridiculously over-thick bevelled edge replacement crystal that this watch is fitted with. My filing system is pretty good too. It didn't take long to find the set of photos where I'd previously seen this same stainless 7A38-7270 - listed on eBay Germany, back in October 2014.

As can clearly be seen in the last 2 photos, it's case-back serial number is 770326. So I sent the Italian eBay seller ervin.pepa a cheeky message, asking him to confirm that. He replied: Certo, qual’è il dubbio? - attaching this photo:

Naturally, I've checked back through this thread and although I posted (about another watch) on 8th October 2014 (the date I saved the German eBay seller's photos), I didn't post about this one. So I can only assume that the German eBay seller had disclosed the fact it was fitted with a non-original bracelet. In case you might be wondering, I didn't manage to find a trace of the original eBay listing - so have absolutely no idea what it may have sold for - nearly 6 years ago. But you can guarantee it was a LOT less than 600 Euros !! 

I'm have trouble keeping up with Italian eBay seller ervin.pepa and his antics.

Earlier this afternoon, he appears to have ended his remaining unsold Buy-it-Now listings for 7Axx's (there were about 20 in total, IIRC) as being allegedly no longer available and subsequently re-listed them all as 7-day auctions, halving their prices in the process. So the majority - those which were priced @ his favourite (often unrealistic) price point of 600 Euros now have opening bid prices of 300 Euros.

His well-worn stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with a non-original generic replacement bracelet (and that laughably over-thick crystal), went the same way as the others.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124185702612

There's now a very real danger that some uninformed mug punter may fall for it at the reduced opening bid price of 300 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124190027990

Well, at least a couple of uninformed mug punters thought it was worth more than 300 Euros - although granted one was a Zero feedback bidder.  Italian eBay seller ervin.pepa's re-listed 7-day auction for a well-worn stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet and noticeably over thick crystal, ended a few moments ago, selling for 303 Euros after 2 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124190027990

I was hoping that might have been the last we'd seen of it, but Alas, it seems not. 

The ex-ervin.pepa stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet, re-appeared this afternoon, listed by a profiteering Italian eBay re-seller, with a 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 350 Euros (without the option to make an offer). Hardly seems worth the effort for 50 Euros profit (less eBay fees). The overly thick replacement crystal fitted, that I'd mentioned in my preceding posts, is clearly visible in the re-seller's 4th photo.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233613292936

Seiko

Mitico cronografo Seiko 7A38-7270, anno 1987

orologio da usare tutti i giorni, per lo sport ecc. ecc.

Cassa in acciaio di 38mm escluso corona,

in condizioni perfette per l'epoca...

Quadrante tre contatori con lancette originali,

bracciale originale

Movimento il 7A38, un quarzo di altissimo livello,

derivato dal mitico e raffinato 7A28

conosciuto dai tecnici per poterci intervenire come fosse un meccanico.

Famoso per essere stato il primo cronografo analogico al quarzo della storia dell'orologeria. 

Solo oggetti originali…!

I'd previously omitted to add an update to the above Italian eBay re-seller's listing for a stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with a non-original bracelet. So for the record, it sold a month later, on 8th July, for a reduced Buy-it-Now price of 300 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233613292936