Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

This Yema N80P896 Pseudo Plongeur, fitted with a cheap-looking Milanese mesh bracelet, was listed this afternoon by a UK eBay seller, with a fanciful Buy-it-Now price of £150 (or the option to make a much lower offer). Looking at the scratches around the bezel, I have to say that the seller's opinion of what consitutes 'very good condition' and mine are poles apart. In fact, this isn't a new listing, per se. It's actually a re-listing. The seller previously unsuccessfully listed it for 30 days as item # 323410780189. I'd just somehow overlooked posting it on here before.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253891127662

Yema (Paris) quartz chronograph wrist watch, stainless steel case, stainless steel mesh bracelet (new).Tachograph around internal bezel. Black face, gold luminous baton hour markers, gold luminous hands, gold centre sweep hand. day and date at 3 oclock. Rotating bezel. Gold winder buttons and press buttons, and hour markers on bezel. New Braun mesh stainless bracelet.

Very attractive watch. very rare, collectors item.

Seiko7A38 at September 2, 2018 at 11:24 AM

If you're as fed up of reading about this sorry saga, as I am of documenting it, please look away now. I'd assumed we'd seen the last of greedy US eBay seller watchaddict412 and his over-priced shopsoiled supposedly 'NOS' Yema N8's. Seems not.  I hadn't bothered writing anything up previously, but nearly 2 weeks ago, he re-listed 2 gold-dialed Yema N81W63's fitted with lizard straps - both as 10-day auctions with opening bid prices of $99. I haven't bothered comparing photos, nor checking case-back serial numbers (and scratches), but I'm pretty sure these are two we've seen before. First is the example with the graunched top R.H. lug, which supposedly sold for $100 back on 19th June (see previous page).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132753132470

The other is presumably one he'd ended early as allegedly no longer available.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132753952669

That second 10-day action ended yesterday afternoon, with the better condition of these two N81W63's selling for $127.50 after 5 bids:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132753952669

The earlier auction for the one with the graunched lug ended Friday evening - unsold. He re-listed it yesterday afternoon with a Buy-it-now price of $199. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132765562317

With apologies for the lengthy quote from the bottom of the previous page, but ....

Hopefully this will be my very last post on the subject of watchaddict412's Yema N8's. Because his last Yema N81W63 (the one with the graunched lug), finally sold (again) at lunchtime today. However, not for his 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $199. I hadn't been watching it that closely, but it appears he revised the listing two days ago, adding the option to make an offer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132765562317

WatchCount.com's Look-up tool reveals it finally sold for a sole offer of $130:

As confirmed by the eBay Purchase History:

Perhaps I should consider adding Chrono24 to the title of this topic. I was idly googling images on 'Yema Spationaute III' at the weekend (as I habitually do from time to time) and spotted this ludicrously over-priced example listed on there, some time around the middle of last month, with an asking price of  950 Euros !!

http://www.chrono24.fr/all/yema-----id9172519.htm

It's being listed on Chrono24 by a Belgian dealer Vintage Today Watches.

Also available on their website (for anyone with more money than sense):

http://www.vintagetoday.be/fr/yema----chronograph-spationaute-iii-p1810

My previous post wasn't intended as any kind of prediction or premonition, but ....

Just to confirm that ridiculous 950 Euro asking price, the would-be Belgian seller's avarice, evident incompetence, apparent colour-blindness (white dial), and bad taste in man bracelets, he listed it on eBay this afternoon ! The 6 photos are the same as those used in the Chrono24 advert and on his own website, in the same 750x750 pixel size. Note also the extortionate 135 Euros shipping charge shown below, although the seller attempts to justify / qualify this in his description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163291166915

Description

MARQUES YEMA

BOITIER ACIER

MOUVEMENT QUARTZ

BRACELET CUIR

FERMETURE ARDILLON

BOITE/PAPIERS PAS DE B. NI DE PAPIER

CADRAN Bleu

CARACTERISTIQUES Grand diamètre-dim

COURONNE Vissée

LUNETTE Unidirectionnelle extérieure

COLLECTION Future vintage

CIRCA * Années 1980

DIMENSIONS * 50 x 43

PAYS France

GARANTIE sans

It's surprising the effect a short message to an eBay seller, including a link to this thread can have. Yesterday lunchtime the Belgian eBay seller made a number of revisions to his listing for his grossly over-priced Yema Spationaute III Aragatz.

I can't see what he changed regarding the pictures; the six photos are the same. The description looks pretty much the same too, except he's embolded the font on the first part of it. The significant amendment is to the Buy-it-Now price - down from that ludicrous 950 Euros to 'only' 550 Euros. Still right at the very top end of what anyone in their right mind might ever consider paying for a used example, but to paraphrase Neil Armstrong, a large step in the right direction for Yemankind.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163291166915

Checking my eBay watching page, I noticed that the above Yema Spationaute III Aragatz sold this morning, for the Belgian seller's reduced Buy-it-Now asking price of 550 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163291166915

As confirmed by the eBay Purchase History:

Anybody fancy a threesome ?  This 'Ménage àTrois', comprising a trio of Yema Spationautes I, II and III, was listed yesterday evening by a Czech eBay seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of £1000. Personally, I think he'd have been wiser to list them separately, but somebody out there may be looking for 'the set'. To complete it properly, you'd need the Altair and Antares 7T32 versions (and possibly the L5 ana-digi 'Spationaute 4' which never actually flew in space).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253960503565

For sale my series of Yema Spationaute watches. As used by French Cosmonauts of Various Missions.

The Spationaute II with the Morioka Tokei Y652A movement has NEVER been worn and comes with its 'astronaut' Nylon/Velcro Strap it is in Tip-Top condition and has had a new battery fitted today.

The Spationaute II with the Similar Tokei Y652B movement is used and has signs of fair wear and tear. I haven't worn it myself and everything functioned when I bought it, but there is difficulty choosing the digital functions... needs a YEMA/Seiko service methinks. Comes on its original Bracelet and has the 'astronaut' pouch and original paperwork.

The Spationaute III with the Shimauchi W906 movement is very similar to the Early Seiko Military Chronographs. Comes on a replacement Sharkskin strap but the original is included. I have worn this one and very nice too it is.

I prefer Bank transfer to my UK bank account....If this bothers you, if you think I will try to rip you off...check my feedback and DON'T buy the watch. If you buy this watch DO NOT pay by PayPal before contacting me... If you do I will just return the payment immediately.

You need to contact me for Postage costs anyway... I have marked postage as £30.. it might be more it might be less depending upon where you live. EUROPE TENDS TO BE AROUND THE £30 MARK.

WARNING I checked out a price for insured shipping to Asia .. EXPENSIVE.... Many couriers now DON'T deliver to Asia, so the shipping options are limited... your choice.. sorry but I will NOT pay your shipping for you, and I will NOT post uninsured!

I do NOT want to break this set up, but will consider realistic offers

If you wish to insult my intelligence by making a ridiculously low offer.. please feel free to do so. I WILL however deem it to be an insult, and I will block you from any future bids/correspondence on all of my items for sale.

Seiko7A38 at September 15, 2018 at 4:49 PM

This Yema N81W53 was listed earlier today, by a US eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $125. Apart from some slight deterioration of the lume on the hour and minute hands, light tarnishing of the gold plating and typically graunched case-back, it generally appears to be in decent condition. It's also fitted with the original Yema black leather strap, which is always nice to have.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113250530404

Being relatively sensibly priced from the outset, I thought that Yema N81W53 might have sold rather quicker than it actually did. The US eBay seller re-listed it a couple of times, at one point rather pointlessly increasing the opening bid price to $175, with the predictable inevitable outcome.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113268790452

Most recently they re-listed it with the opening bid price reduced to $100.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113330491783

That's what it finally sold for, when the latest 7-day auction ended in the early hours of yesterday morning.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113330491783

This dressy Yema N81W43 in decent used condition, was listed on Yahoo Japan earlier today, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 18,500 Yen, which may be a tad optimistic.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c691929740

Google translates the Japanese seller's description as follows:

Thank you for your interest in the product.

I am reading below and I am waiting for a bid.

[Product Description]

Product Name: YEMA Iema Quartz Men's Chronograph Watch

Brand or manufacturer: YEMA Iema

Iema is a French manufacturer that suddenly in the limelight with a watch that had been the Lupine III anime.

Although it was temporarily acquired by SEIKO and merged, there is origin that it was bought back by the local fund and now returned to a French manufacturer.

[Condition of goods]

Usage situation: Although there is a feeling of use, it is comparatively beautiful, I think that you can still use it.

Although not so conspicuous, there is a scar on the vertical streak on the right side of the 6 o'clock position of the windshield.

The belt is bent, there is a feeling of use.

Basic operation check is OK.

Notes: basically secondhand goods. I hope in a no claim and a no return.

[Other]

Unknown point. Question please.

I've seen some ridiculous 'pie-in-the-sky' prices asked for Yema Spationaute III's over the years, but I think this is a new record for stupidity. Listed at lunchtime today by a French seller with a Buy-it-Now price of 1200 Euros !!

It's effectively a 'head only'. The seller's description states 'sans bracelet', but what's obviously half of the original Yema navy blue shark strap is visible in 4 of the 5 photos. Speaking of which, the third photo shows 2 Yema instruction booklets, but neither are actually correct for this watch. The one on the left is a 'generic' manual for analogue quartz (non chronograph) models and that on the right is for a Quartz Chronograph with Alarm - Series M4 - Cal. Y182 and probably rightfully belongs to the Yema Antares, which the deluded would-be seller is also listing (@ the same ludicrous 1200 Euros).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223219876917

MONTRE YEMA SPATIONAUTE III

VOL ARAGATZ SOYOUZ TM7

NOV 1988

IL Y A 30 ANS MOIS POUR MOIS

NEUVE

NUMEROTEE

JAMAIS PORTEE

IDENTIQUE A CELLE PORTEE PAR J.L. CHRETIEN

LORS DU VOL

LIVREE SANS BRACELET

(Comme cela était le cas pour laisser le choix )

Couple of points in the seller's description which need correcting. Yes it may be coming up to the 30th anniversary of the launch of the Soyuz TM-7 Aragatz mission later this month (a date which hadn't escaped me), but this seller hasn't owned this watch for 30 years. The 2-xxxx prefix case-back serial number indicates it wasn't manufactured until 1990. Nor is it identical, as the seller falsely claims, to the watch worn by Jean-Loup Chrétien. Far from it.  This is what I refer to as a 'minimal printing' dial. No 'PARIS', no 'QUARTZ' and of course it's missing the all-important French and Soviet mission flags. Plus it's got the later polished hands. If you don't know what a genuine space-flown prototype Yema Spationaute III looks like, you might want to peruse this thread. They are quite different - in many ways.

Seiko7A38 at November 3, 2018 at 6:38 PM

This dressy Yema N81W43 in decent used condition, was listed on Yahoo Japan earlier today, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 18,500 Yen, which may be a tad optimistic.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c691929740

I wasn't entirely surprised when the above 7-day Yahoo Japan auction ended, without any bids being placed and the Yema N81W43 unsold. However what did surprise me, instead of just re-listing it (retaining the same YJ item number) and reducing the opening bid price, the seller created a completely new listing with a fresh set of photos - and a slightly more realistic opening bid price of 15,000 Yen.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p645666537

Like the previous listing, this was supposed to be a 7-day auction listing (ending on 14th November), so I hadn't been in any particular hurry to post about it here. Unfortunately, by the time I got around to writing it up this afternoon, the Japanese seller had ended the new listing after only a day (without any bids being placed).

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p645666537

The fact that a Yema N8 Flygraf hasn't appeared on eBay, for sale anywhere else (or in this thread) for a few months, sadly does not make them 'Ultra Rare' - by any stretch of the imagination.  This very familiar looking example was listed by a UK seller this morning, with an absolutely ludicrous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of  £550 !! 

An especially ridiculous asking price for this less than desirable poor example. Check out the bubbling / flaking paint on the sub-dials; the graunched and worn bezel printing, the incorrect replacement crown fitted and the almost obliterated polished case-back. That black rally strap should be another clue to its identity.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273551530451

Think Breitling Navitimer with a hint of Gallic charm. It is an absolutely stunning watch in great condition. Here are some more details:

Case - The case back has some scratches, the Yema logo is still there but is very faint. The case has a few light scratches that do not notice very much. The bezel has a nice tight feel to it and rotates freely. The crystal is perfect. It measures 45mm across, not including the crown.

Dial and hands - The lume on the dial and hands still glows brightly. The hands are mint. The dial has very minor flaws that can't be seen with the naked eye.

Movement - It has a very interesting Shimauchi v906 15 jewel electro mechanical movement. It keeps perfect time and all of the timer functions work correctly. I had it serviced about 4 years a go. The top left button is a lap timer, bottom left adjusts the time (you have to unscrew it from the case to pull it out), top right starts and stops the timer, bottom right resets the timer. If you push and hold the bottom right button the watch carries out a self test. If you pull the crown out one click it adjusts the date and day depending on which way you turn it.

Strap - It has a used but good condition 22mm leather GT style strap with white stitching.

I've been extremely honest about the condition of this watch, please have a good look at the photos as they also form an important part of the description. It is with a heavy heart that I sell this watch but just recently I've not been wearing it at all. It works perfectly and is ready to wear.

Unfortunately due to the value of the item, postage overseas is quite expensive.

I don't know about 'extremely honest', I'd say more like 'economic with the truth' and fanciful to boot. Don't think 'Breitling Navitimer', nor 'Gallic Charm', but instead think Filipino watch botcher Badingski and notorious shill-bidding UK eBay re-seller 'Timely_Classic'. Because this is the same Yema N8 Flygraf which has featured in this thread a number of times before, over the last 6 years or so. I'm not about to page all the way back through this thread, to find all the previous references, but a quick search on 'Timely_Classic' bought this one up, which I believe was the last time we saw it ....

Seiko7A38 at October 13, 2014 at 5:14 AM

Speaking of instantly recognisable Yema N8's, I notice from my eBay watching page that the ex-Badingski ex-Timely_Classic Flygraf, discussed on the previous page (and prior to that on page 3 of this thread and elsewhere) sold yesterday against a best offer:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121442723373

The seller had paid Timely_Classic £420 for this extremely rough ex-filipino Flygraf in January 2013. I did message him to confirm it was the same watch. Originally he'd listed it with a risible B-I-N price of £495, but after our exchange of messages, he immediately dropped the price to £395 - then two days later added this line to the description:

PLEASE NOTE I WILL BE ON HOLIDAY BETWEEN 2ND OCTOBER AND 11TH OCTOBER.

I WILL DEAL WITH ANY QUESTIONS ON MY RETURN. SORRY FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE.

Presumably someone made an offer on it while he was away on holiday and he gratefully or grudgingly accepted it on his return.

Unfortunately Goofbid's eBay Best Offer History tool hasn't picked it up, so I guess we'll never know how much the buyer paid. 

Belated Edit: Or perhaps we will. 

Seems that 'Best Offer' must have fallen through, because the seller subsequently re-listed it - sold for £195 as a B-I-N later today.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121460049351

As the current would-be profiteering re-seller peteslag claims to have had it serviced 4 years ago, presumably it was he who paid  £195 for it in October 2014.

This Yema N81W43, with the 'Big 12' dial, fitted with what appears to be a Seiko branded lizard stap was listed late last night by a US eBay seller, with a grossly over-optimistic 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $295 (and no 'Make Offer' option). Clearly they have no idea of its realistic value. Has to be said the dingy grainy photos are rather poor quality.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153253796667

You are bidding on a vintage YEMA Paris N81W43 Chronograph Quartz Steel Gold Plated Dress Men's Wrist Watch, Serial No. 2673, in very good cosmetic and working condition!

Free shipping lower 48 states,

I'm willing to ship internationally but will be sold as is, sorry!

Or not as the case may be.

I need to add a slightly belated update to my earlier comments that I made last week, about the ludicrously over-priced Yema Spationaute III listed by the deluded French eBay seller rosangui78. Earlier this week, I traded a few messages with him. After comparing the positions of the constant seconds hand in the head on view photos of the watch (all were showing 44 seconds), it evidently wasn't running - although that important fact wasn't stated in his original description. So I asked him when the battery was last replaced. Here's a screen print of his reply:

He replied that it had NEVER been replaced. Alas indeed !  Assuming the chronograph hadn't been used, the original battery would probably have lasted until 1995. So that's 23 YEARS it's been left with a flat run-down battery inside. Doesn't really bear thinking about the potential for battery acid damage to the internals, does it ? I tried to convince him that his asking price, for what was in effect a (non) ticking time bomb (if not already ruined), was completely unrealistic. He subsequently revised the listing mid-week:

He's added the French equivalent of 'Sold As Is' to the sub-title line, amended the description (although he could have made it clearer) and reduced the Buy-it-Now price from his original ludicrous 1200 Euros to 'only' 850 Euros !! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223219876917

A LIRE ATTENTIVEMENT AVANT L'ACHAT

CETTE MONTRE N'A JAMAIS ETEE PORTEE

MAIS CONSERVEE DANS UN ENVIRONNEMENT TRES SAIN PAS D'HUMIDITE

CONSERVEE DANS UN BOITIER ELLE N'A PAS RECUE DE CHOCS

A FONCTIONNE AVEC SES PILES D'ORIGINE JUSQU'A LEUR ARRET ELLES

N'ONT PAS ETE CHANGEES

JE NE CONNAIS PAS L'ETAT INTERIEUR PILES MECANISMES MOUVEMENTS

ETANCHEITE .......

BOITIER JAMAIS OUVERT

NUMEROTEE 694

AVEC BOOKLET

LIVREE SANS BRACELET

I really don't know why I bothered wasting my time !!  

As regular readers may have gathered, I have a particular penchant for collecting some of the quirkier French made 7A38's (N8's), produced by C.G.H. (Compagnie Générale Horlogère a.k.a. Seiko France) - and blue dials. Probably the oddest looking were the Kamatz 5xxxxx range produced for René Attias - a self-styled aeronautical pilot instructor and watch designer (whose family now runs the Navitec brand). I have over a dozen of the more common 517000 and 518000 'Oscar Bravo' variants in my collection - but I'm always on the lookout for more. 

I spotted one included in a 'Junk' job lot listing on Yahoo Japan earlier today ....

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/338854434

Google translates the relevant parts of the seller's description as follows:

■ We will exhibit six '80s chrono meter with 7A Series Movement we got in this auction in the past at once.

■ Since it becomes junk treatment with all translation, please give me a bid on your attention.

- Although some functions may operate by battery exchange, please refrain from bidding those who expect a fully operational item because it has not been operating for many years.

4. 7A38 (Manufacturer name ATTIAS) · · · Made in France, Screwdown type crown, English / French switching calendar, Glass surface scratches are present.

At first glance, it might look like a common or garden Kamatz 517000. But this one is branded ATTIAS. Never seen one like that before. Closer examination reveals that the sub-dials are a slightly smaller diameter than those of a Kamatz 517000 (see comparison photo below). The case looks like it's been polished to death, but is the same basic shape / design as the Kamatz. Difficult to know whether it's been enthusiastically re-finished, or if it originally would have be matt brushed.

It would certainly be a 'nice to have'. Unfortunately, with 3 rather more collectable Seiko 7A28's included this 'Junk' job lot (amongst them a 'Bishop') it's likely to end up selling for silly money. 

Seiko7A38 at July 30, 2018 at 6:15 AM

The laughably over-priced eBay listing for a Yema Spationaute III, by would-be profiteering US re-seller expertswatches, which I'd been eagerly anticipating (if only to take the mickey) materialized overnight - a little later than expected. Given his ludicrous mark-up on the ex-watchaddict412 Yema N81W63, it wasn't quite a stupidly high as I'd expected - 'only' $500 (plus an additional $175 in GSP charges for anybody foolish enough). The reason soon becomes apparent. This isn't, as I'd wrongly assumed another shopsoiled 'NOS' Yema from watchaddict412. But it is another Spationaute III which has previously featured in this thread. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223080728317

The tatty worn strap and the case-back serial number 4-269 being the giveaways.

If you want to learn the full prior eBay history of this Spationaute III, you'll need to read the bottom part of Page 28. But to summarise briefly, it was listed twice by the same US eBay seller, in April this year, using two different eBay ID's: darry1957 and lnaha0 and sold the second time around for $242.50.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152981905854

So now, according to this self-appointed 'expert' , it's worth double that.

Evidently I should have included 'grossly incompetent' in my last sentence. 

With apologies for a somewhat belated update to the above (partially quoted) post that I made at the end of July. I'm not making any excuses, but I have to admit that lately, since eBay's latest 'enhancement' to the watching page - with so many items on my own (approaching the maximum 300) and so many of them constantly being re-listed, it's not always easy to spot when an item has sold.  Particularly if the seller keeps on automatically re-listing the item, after it's actually been sold ! 

Yes this listing for a Yema Spationaute III, by US eBay seller expertswatches, is still going round and around on my watching page instead of dropping off. It's currently just reappeared on page 1, which is what bought it to my notice.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223080728317

Note the eBay header bar information shows it as out of stock, but theoretically still available to Buy-it-Now.

WatchCount.com's Look-up tool thankfully provides a somewhat clearer picture.

The listing isn't scheduled to end until Monday 26th November (ironically).

The eBay Purchase History shows only lots of declined / expired offers ....

Amusingly the Buy-it-Now button is still there for anybody stupid enough. 

But it has definitely been sold. How do I know this ?

Well I did a little googling this morning, to see if anybody else might be celebrating the 30th Anniversary of Aragatz. I tend to avoid Social Media (for reasons I've stated many times), but I came across this Instagram page owned by Serge92604 (watch blogger Serge Panczuk) which includes a few photos of a worn looking Yema Spationaute III with yellowed lume, later fitted with a variety of random straps.

This post, showing the case-back s/n 4-269, dated 26th October, and the dates shown by the watch, point to him having bought it almost exactly a month ago.

Hopefully Serge wasn't foolish enough to pay 'the alleged expert' $500 for it.

It's probably pretty obvious (from the way I blathered on about it) that I was clearly very interested in that blue dialed Attias '7A38' included in the 'Junk' job lot listing on Yahoo Japan last week. It was extremely unlikely that I (nor anybody else) would be able to persuade the Japanese seller to split it out of the job lot and sell it (to me) separately. Particularly as by the middle of last week, bidding on the lot was already well under way.

Almost in desperation, I emailed Japanese forum member Daisuke to ask his advice. It turned out that he was also interested in the listing - he wanted the three Seiko 7A28's for parts, but couldn't see himself winning the auction either. So we agreed a joint strategy. I gave him a figure that I would be prepared to pay for the Attias '7A38'. He added that figure to what he would have been prepared to bid himself for the job lot as a whole - and made that his maximum bid. Our strategy worked - even if we did have to tweak our original numbers a bit towards the end. The YJ auction ended on Sunday afternoon (which was in fact after Midnight, Japanese local time), selling for 58,777 Yen after 42 bids. Daisuke won it ! 

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/338854434

So, with Daisuke's invaluable assistance, once I've paid him my agreed 'cut', I may have got my hands on a very rare 7A38 variant - even if it turns out to be entirely 'Junk' and needs a complete re-build. I'm prepared to sacrifice a Kamatz 517000 (for the case and movement) if necessary. As I wrote in my initial post, I've never seen another Attias branded version before - in 10 years of collecting. Needless to say, since I first clapped eyes on it, I've done an inordinate amount of googling, trying to find another example - or any reference to it. I was going to email David Attias (whom I have exchanged the odd email with before - years ago), to ask him to ask his father René what he could remember about it. But sadly the email address I had for David doesn't work anymore. 

My googling sessions also served to provide a stark reminder. That is, if there's something you're looking for, to fill a 'gap' in a collection, you should never stop searching. As I wrote earlier, I've got plenty of Kamatz 517000's and a few 518000 'Oscar Bravo's. But something that has still managed to elude me is the 519000 'Tango Charlie' version. I've only ever seen the one NOS example (albeit long 'after the fact'). It was sold on eBay, by the Dutch seller vacheron_nl (a.k.a. Global Watch Straps) in June 2009 for the opening bid price of $29.99. I hadn't even heard of Kamatz at the time. 

It's basically the same watch as the 518000 'Oscar Bravo', but fitted with a different bezel and dial ring. I did ask a question in a thread over on pprune, to see if any pilots might know exactly what the rotating bezel was actually intended to calculate, but no-one managed to come up with an answer. It ain't pretty - that's for sure. That doesn't make it any less desirable to the obsessive collector like myself. 

Naturally, while I was googling 'Attias', I came across several references to Kamatz that I'd written myself. Which reminded me that I hadn't googled 'Kamatz 519000' in a good few months. So I did. Guess what I found ? 

Sold on Mercari Japan in August this year for 14,300 Yen - with a blue dial too !!

http://item.mercari.com/jp/m18297053023/

Google translates the Japanese seller's description as follows:

Purchased at a select shop in French Paris watches at overseas business trips, at that time it was not a euro and Franc is a watch not yet arrived in Japan with a watch of 30 years ago of currency. It is made in France. We use it for about a month, afterwards it is home storage as a collection. The price at the time was purchased for 5.8 million yen. When exhibiting, batteries are exchanged at a watch store for new items. I have Seiko because I do not have a category. Size Vertical 4.5 cm Horizontal 4.2 cm Arm around 16 cm to 20.5 cm It is in a beautiful state although it has a slight feeling on the belt for vintage goods. It is a genuine belt. ◉ Bezel is light and moves right and left. It is not a ticking movement, it feels like moving suddenly. There is no stopper. Chronograph has also been confirmed normally. It is a core watch that I do not get at first. I think that you can be satisfied with the maniac. Please consider this opportunity by all means.

I would have bought it in a heartbeat, had I seen it at the time.

I find it difficult to believe the crass stupidity, but it appears that half an hour ago, someone hit the Buy-it-Now button on the ex-Badingski / ex-Timely_Classic Yema N8 Flygraf - for the current profiteering UK eBay re-seller's 'reduced' price of 'only' £430 !!  (See my two posts higher up the page dated 9th November). You may have noticed the seller's use of the word 'Stunning' - funnily enough, a favourite adjective, regulary used by Timely_Classic. The only thing that is stunning about this watch is the ridiculous prices people have paid for it. I'm absolutely stunned someone else has fallen for it. The mind truly boggles !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273551530451