Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Or did I ? 

There really isn't any justification for even a fanatical collector of 7A38s like myself having more than one Yema N8 Flygraf in his collection. Unlike its Spationaute III sibling, which incidentally shares the same 43mm diameter watch case, crown and pushers, and has 4 known dial variations, Yema's N8 Flygraf seems to have remained pretty much constant during its 5 year production lifespan from 1989 to 1994. The only differences I've observed is in the colour of lume compound used. Most early units seemed to have had light green lume, later watches cream lume. So there's no justification for my keeping two N8 Flygrafs with green lume. Or is there ? 

Let me give you a little background. Rewind back to late 2009. I'm getting into my stride building up my collection of Seiko 7A38's. I was already aware of the existence of the Yema N8s, and by November I'd bought my first Yema N8 'Pseudo Plongeur', and a 'beater' parts watch Spationaute III in need of restoration. I really wanted a nice example of the Spationaute III, so I'd set up a saved favourite search on eBay. I'd seen a few by then, but was reluctant to pay some of the extortionate prices asked by French eBay sellers. Back in those days, I tended to be more reactive rather than proactive in my eBay searching. On the morning of 17th December, I received an email notification of 2 Yema Spationautes listed on eBay. One was a Spationaute III, and the other an ana-digi Spationaute I. By the time I clicked on the links to the two listings (they were Buy-it-Now), both had been sold - as I later found out, they were both purchased by Hervé Halfen (a.k.a 'Half12'), a French space watch collector. I cursed my luck at having missed the Spationaute III, by a matter of a hour or so, as it had sold for 'only' 180 Euros. I later consoled myself that it had been re-lumed (badly), and by buying a few more. 

I had a look at the other items which the seller had on offer, and saw the watch above right listed as simply: 'Chrono Yema Flygraf' - it was obviously a 7A38. Though at the time, I'd done very little research into this model (or Yema for that matter). In fact, it would appear that this was likely the first one I'd seen on eBay, because the only image I'd right-clicked and saved of a Yema N8 Flygraf prior to that was the one below. One thing which disconcerted me was that the French eBay seller 'lowcostwatches' had zero feedback at the time. Regardless, I decided to take a gamble and hit the Buy-it-Now button, before anyone else did - and besides, the watch on offer looked just like the the one depicted below. The seller turned out to be a Caroline Beckensteiner, who wrote in one of her messages that she was selling the watches on behalf of her husband (of more anon).

That image came from an online French article, dating from March 2008, about the monstrous-looking Yema Master Elements:

http://www.lacotedesmontres.com/actu/Yema-Master-Elements-No_6361.htm

If you scroll (a long way) down that article page, apart from that image of the 1989 N8 Flygraf, you'll also find one of a Spationaute III - with a large flake of lume missing from its hour hand. If memory serves correctly, that series of images were 'borrowed' from a much earlier iteration of the Yema website (since completely revamped twice). They were in a sub-section called 'Historique' - and in effect represented the Yema factory's museum collection; though more likely the watches were actually owned by Louis-Eric Beckensteiner - erstwhile President of the company, prior to its bancruptcy in December 2008.

I had inadvertantly bought the exact same watch - late of the Yema factory museum collection. Indeed the few marks on the bezel, near 20, 30 and 80 on the compass scale, and the rubbing wear of the printing on the inner silver logarithmic scale all matched perfectly. It came on a 22mm lightly padded 'croco' grained strap with a deployant clasp. The clasp has a Yema logo, but it's the later 'lower case' logo used after 2004, so I knew it wasn't original to the watch. Turns out the strap was from this later 7T62 powered Flygraf model:

The advert below from 1992 shows the correct strap for a Yema Flygraf - Black calf with black stitching and a pronounced central rib.

Early Spationaute III production used a navy blue version of the same calf strap (as illustrated), before they changed over to shark.

After looking at a few different options, although not much like the original Yema strap, I fitted a TSS Watchworx  Brooklands MKII:

The silver-grey coloured stitching was quite a good match for the inner bezel scale:

For a while, I was content with my Flygraf, despite the worn bezel printing - which of course gave it its identity, and non-original strap.

Then I began browsing the various French watch forums - Chronomania and Forumamontres and saw other examples.

In this thread: http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t60180-2-questions-sur-une-yema-flygraf there's a NOS with tags ....

.... and another almost mint example, with the later cream-coloured lume, again on the original Yema strap:

So, I started looking for another better, more original example. I saw quite a few on eBay (in France) and LeBonCoin over the next couple of years - some with scratched crystals or bezels, missing or dodgy lume, others with replacement straps fitted, and a couple with the seemingly problematic stripped or broken screw-down crowns. Often as not, their asking prices were somewhat inflated too.

Then at the end of January, unusually one cropped up on eBay in Germany: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130632169753

The auction listing was partly incorrectly titled as: Yema Flygraf chronograph quartz 7A32

There never was any such Seiko caliber as a 7A32, of course - it's either 7A38 (as it should be, in this case) - or 7T32. 

In his description the seller included the sentence: Sie bieten Hier auf eine Original Yema Flygraf mit dem (ich glaube) Seiko Werk 7T32

I suspect the seller's confusion stems from another online article, which funnily enough also uses the same image of my Yema Flygraf.

See: http://sliderulewatches.yvod.com/historyfrench.html .... and scroll on down the page. The caption to that familiar image reads:

In 1988 Yema was bought by Seiko, and continued to offer quartz slide rule watches called Flygraf. This is a 1989 model which uses the Seiko 7T32 movement. I have since emailed the website owner, asking him to correct this mistake, but seemingly to no avail.

Coincidentally, I'd bought a copy of this Yema advert, dating from 1994, from a French eBay seller in December last year:

Apart from the '1989' 7A38-powered N8 Flygraf (note the creamy-coloured lume) in the bottom right-hand corner, the advert also includes two different versions of the next generation 7T32-powered Flygraf which superceded it - at bottom left and middle row left.

Perhaps I should be grateful to the owner of that website for apparently confusing the German eBay seller to into making errors in his listing title and description. Not only did I win the auction for a fairly reasonable 153 Euros, despite the listing receiving 362 views, but I also had the satisfaction of out-bidding another well-known UK 7Axx collector in the final two seconds. Better luck, next time, eh ?

If you want to see more Yema N8 Flygrafs, there's another thread on Forumamontres, but you'll need to be signed in to view it.

http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t107855-packshot-yema-flygraf-chronographe-a-quartz-analogique-n8v-906-a

It also yields another Yema advert featuring the N8 Flygraf. Apparently the copy-writers were confused as to the correct spelling. 

I took a quick wrist shot of my newer Yema N8 Fygraf and posted it in the 7Axx Discussion area 'WRUW' thread last weekend, then completely forgot about adding it into this thread as well. This was very much 'as received' condition and it still needs a bit of a clean:

One year on, as it now looks like I'll be updating this thread once again presently, despite the self-contradictory title I gave the topic ....

I thought I may as well copy across this other wrist shot of my original Yema N8 Flygraf, that I posted in the WRUW thread a week ago:

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. I know what I wrote back in mid-February 2012. Yada, Yada, Yada, Yada. 

So readers, I'll concede that the original title I gave this topic:

I really didn't need another Yema N8 Flygraf .... was on the face of it, complete and utter bunk.

The irony is not lost on me. But sometimes, in certain exceptional circumstances you've just gotta bend your own rules. 

In the last week of March, a Yema N8 Flygraf - new, unworn with tags was listed on eBay in the States, with an opening bid of $199.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300877498907

Yema Flygraf watch leather band analog quartz

The seller's description was fairly brief:

Have had this watch for years and it has never been used or worn. The original plastic protective sticker is still on the back of the watch. There is a bluish black spot that I can't tell if is on the sticker or the stainless steel back (see picture). The battery has been recently replaced and the watch runs.

I watched it like a hawk for the duration of the 7-day listing, hoping and praying that no-one else might see it and bid against me ....

Then I nailed it (twice) for the opening bid price:

It was being offered for sale to international bidders through eBay's GSP programme, where the buyer pays customs charges up front.

This was my first experience of the programme - and funnily enough, as it turned out, also the first time the seller had used it himself.

I've written up a separate topic in the Members' Lounge section documenting the saga. It wasn't as bad as I had originally anticipated.

With the obligatory pre-paid customs charges of $50.12 and the very reasonable postage of $17.71 the actual total cost was $266.83:

Which equates to £175.50 (as opposed to the £130.60 bid price). But if you compare that to the 180 Euros (+ €20 postage) I paid (as an admittedly hurried Buy-it-Now) back in December 2009 for the ex-Louis-Eric Beckensteiner Yema Flygraf, and the 153 Euros (plus an extortionate €25 postage) that I paid for my second, rather better condition used example on eBay Germany, in late January 2012; this third Yema N8 Flygraf, new unworn, boxed with tags and papers, represents something of a bargain buy. Well, I think so anyway.

What some people are prepared to pay for a watch they might consider collectable or desirable is of course entirely subjective ....

Witness the dog-eared ex-Filipino example bought by UK eBay re-seller Timely_Classic in November last year:

Compared to the price they finally shilled sold the same Yema Flygraf, fitted with a new strap for (a second time) in January this year:

Now THAT makes mine look a REAL bargain !! 

Despite the fact I already had two decent Yema N8 Flygrafs - the lesser one I've kept because of its Yema factory museum association and although I've admitted I hadn't worn that first one in almost three years, to my mind I was fully justified in buying this third example.

Yema's N8 Flygraf seems to have remained pretty much constant during its 5 year production lifespan from 1989 to 1994. The only differences I've observed is in the colour of lume compound used. Most early units seemed to have had light green lume, later watches cream lume. So there's no justification for my keeping two N8 Flygrafs with green lume.

Because, apart from being 'NOS', this newest Yema N8 Flygraf (on the left) has the cream coloured lume, which had eluded me, so far:

Note, unlike seen on other NOS Yema's, the price tag carries no reference to the Yema model # N80Q16, nor its sales code Y1116. 

Sir Alan at April 6, 2013 at 6:21 AM

Seiko7A38 at March 8, 2012 at 3:10 PM

I took a quick wrist shot of my newer Yema N8 Fygraf and posted it in the 7Axx Discussion area 'WRUW' thread last weekend, then completely forgot about adding it into this thread as well. This was very much 'as received' condition and it still needs a bit of a clean:

Very, very nice Paul.

It's a good job I don't do watches on straps, isnt't it ?!!!!!!!   

You kinda jumped the gun on me there, Simon - this is my newest Yema N8 Flygraf that I hoped someone might pass comment on. 

One other small point of interest - or at least to Yema-N8-ophiliac anoraks  like myself (before anybody else says it) ....

You may have noticed in the eBay seller's third listing photo that the watch came with instructions and a little 2" x 3" warranty card:

Despite having purchased a few NOS Yema N8's from the States, I'd never seen one before. Here's a couple of scans of it I did earlier:

Note the returns address: WATCHMAKERS SERVICE P.O. 5070, So. Hackensack, NJ 07606.

To those amongst us who've purchased NOS Yema Spationaute III's from Leanne @ watchfactory.com over the last six months or so, Hackensack NJ may sound familiar. In fact, although their address and 'store' names have changed over the years, it indeed is them.

Quote from: http://watchfactory.com/index.php/about

WatchFactory.com/.net is a storefront of F ROSS LLC, an online retailer of branded watches and eyewear. Our family business started in 1988 as a service and repair facility for watches produced by our affiliated wholesale division. In 1999, we launched a web based retail store. We take pride in servicing our customers and providing a great value!

Although now effectively defunct, as they no longer offer a repair facility (only exchange), Watchmaker's Service website still exists:

http://www.watchmakersservice.com/documents/contact_request_2.html

Note: 'started in 1988' - the same year that Seiko took over Yema and amalgamated them into Compagnie Générale Horlogère (CGH).

As for: 'watches produced by our affiliated wholesale division' - Leanne's partner Dory (Isidor) Farash told me in a late night phone conversation last year, one of those wholesale brands was Yema. From the late 80's through the 90's, F ROSS LLC was the official US importer and distributor for Yema (and Jaz Paris amongst others). Hence how they ended up with the stash of NOS Spationaute III's. 

Incidentally, before anyone else asks, Watchfactory.com do not have any stock (NOS or otherwise) of Yema N8 Flygrafs. That was one of the first questions I asked them - whether they had any other Yema N8's, besides the Spationaute III's, when I first made contact. 

They do however have stock of the later 7T34 based Flygraf, as posted (off topic) by Mike Kelley in the 'Yema N8's spotted' thread.

Something made me smile this afternoon. 

As some as you may know, apart from the watches themselves, I collect any related ephemera - particularly period magazine adverts.

I've been looking for an original copy of the Yema Flygraf advert from the L'Heure des Héroes series (the one misspelt Flygraph) for some time. One finally cropped up during my searches on eBay France yesterday and I nailed it as a Buy-it-Now without hesitation.

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/171223861474

Publicité Advertising 1989 Montre YEMA

Slightly yellowed with age at the edges, but not too bad a condition. 

This afternoon, out of the blue, I received a message (in English) from the French eBay seller. It read:

You have just purchased one or more print ads after one or several French magazines. It is indeed ADS and not products!

Each day, the bidders are wrong, think receive a perfume, a watch, a cream, shoes, ...

I prefer now to send this email to each of my clients and make sure that there is no ambiguity, for the sole purpose to satisfy you.

Await your confirmation within 48 hours. (new measure of Ebay) Ebay now requires us to send orders within 48 H.

Thank you for your understanding.

Not that I wouldn't jump at the chance of buying a Yema Flygraf for 3 Euros + 2 Euros shipping, but I knew exactly what I was buying.

So apart from a serious confirmation email - out of sheer devillment I sent the seller a link to this thread ! After all, the topic title is:

I really didn't need another Yema N8 Flygraf ....

But I did need the advert. 

Seiko7A38 at February 13, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Or did I ? 

There really isn't any justification for even a fanatical collector of 7A38s like myself having more than one Yema N8 Flygraf in his collection. Unlike its Spationaute III sibling, which incidentally shares the same 43mm diameter watch case, crown and pushers, and has 4 known dial variations, Yema's N8 Flygraf seems to have remained pretty much constant during its 5 year production lifespan from 1989 to 1994. The only differences I've observed is in the colour of lume compound used. Most early units seemed to have had light green lume, later watches cream lume. So there's no justification for my keeping two N8 Flygrafs with green lume. Or is there ? 

So there's even less (read absolutely zero) justification for buying myself yet another Yema N8 Flygraf with green lume, right ? 

Well call me a hypocrite if you like, but that's what I've gone and done.  Mostly because I simply couldn't resist a bargain. 

Besides - it's been well over a year - in fact nearly two, since I'd bought my last Yema N8 Flygraf ! 

It's the one which was on listed on eBay in the States in the last week of January, posted on page 13 of the Yema N8's spotted thread.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301498504666

I was kind of hoping that Don or Paul (PHK) who in the end kindly bid on it on my behalf might have been more interested in it.

Most of the eBay seller's photos were slightly out of focus, but here's the best of them (as posted in the other thread):

Despite that, I'd already sussed it appeared to be in nice cosmetic condition. My plan initially had been that if it came cheap enough to effectively break it up for parts; swap bezels, etc. around with and hence improve my original ex-Louis-Eric Beckensteiner Flygraf.

But as the auction progressed I got back to thinking what I'd written in my first post about that particular watch:

For a while, I was content with my Flygraf, despite the worn bezel printing - which of course gave it its identity, and non-original strap.

Naturally, swapping the bezel would undeniably improve it's appearance - but it wouldn't be the same watch any more, would it ? 

Of course, when this newest incoming Flygraf arrived on Tuesday, it was in far too nice a condition to consider parting out anyway. 

Indeed a brief examination indicated it was even better condition than the one I'd bought off eBay Germany back in January 2012. 

This afternoon I gave it a cursory strip and clean and rattled off a few Q&D photos, by flash due to the lack of decent daylight.

Don't think I've ever taken (or posted) a photo of the dial / movement out of a Flygraf before so ....

Here's one with the dial spacer ring (with the inner logarithmic slide rule scale) dropped in place:

This is for someone on TZ-UK who asked about the Pi symbol π (after I posted about a Flygraf in a thread over there).

Nice clean Shimauchi Ltd. V906 branded 7A38 movement, showing no signs of battery leakage:

The case-back was only lightly scuffed and thankfully devoid of the usual slipped tool marks, though there is one such light scratch which runs from the lower-most locating hole up between the S and T of STEEL. Certainly no need to polish or skim the case-back. 

The worst thing about the watch was the naff replacement strap it came fitted with. It really was nasty. Yes it was 22mm lug fitting (actually embossed 7/8") but it tapered down to 14mm and was only 2mm thick. Given that the watch itself shows very little sign of wear, I find it strange that the original Yema strap had been replaced at all. Indeed, when I pressed out the strap pins there was no trace of rust (caused by sweat) or the usual gunge - old glue residue on the strap fixing tubes - they were almost like new.

Luckily I had a NOS correct style Yema strap in my spare strap drawer that I had been thinking about fitting to my other Flygraf. 

At that point, my camera's battery went flat - there wasn't even enough juice left in it to upload the photos to the PC.  Hence the delay in finishing this post.  More to follow tomorrow hopefully .... keeping my fingers crossed for a bit of decent natural daylight.

I read back through this thread this morning, for the first time in a long while, after posting a link in the 'Yema N7's and N8's spotted' thread. I don't know that given the title of this thread I should really be making this admission, but I realized that I'd missed posting about yet another Yema N8 Flygraf I bought on a whim, back in December last year. Here's a copy and paste of my post from the above mentioned thread.

Originally posted by myself on December 9, 2015 at 10:21 AM

This decent-looking used example of a Yema N8 Flygraf was listed on eBay on Sunday evening by a UK seller. I'd run my worldwide eBay search on Yema about half an hour earlier, but it was picked up by one of my eBay saved favourite searches the following day.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221960490624

YEMA Flygraf

Vintage mans watch with Mercedes hands

Made in France, shark skin strap

Full working order.

This watch is in great condition for it's age, it has slight scuffs on glass,

but please look at all photos and judge for yourself.

I can only estimate overseas postage,

so please don't pay until I know where it's going, then I will correct.

Or ask for postage details to your country. 

Postage will have to be signed for, so it may cost a little more.

An estimated cost to France is £15.00 tracked and signed for.

I had to chuckle to myself that the seller had tagged it as Movement: Mechanical (Hand-winding) in the Item Specifics section. 

But what really intrigued me was the strap that was fitted. A 'double jonc' ribbed black shark strap - pretty obviously original Yema.

I've seen a few of this style strap (in navy blue) fitted to Spationaute III's in the past, but never on a N8 Flygraf before ....

So naturally it piqued my interest.  But I kept reciting my mantra: I really didn't need another Yema N8 Flygraf

By about 6pm yesterday evening, bidding was still well under £100 (@ £79, IIRC), so I reluctantly decided to have a punt at it.

A couple of other snipers had a pop at it, but still sold for a very reasonable £115.13 after 15 bids - to me. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221960490624

Here's a copy and paste of my post from the WRUW thread, a few days later.

Originally posted by myself on December 12, 2015 at 10:22 AM

Here's a quick and dirty (as received) shot of my newest incoming Yema N8 Flygraf, which arrived on Thursday ....

It needs a strip-down and light cleaning. The crystal is a little cloudy on the inside, so over the holidays, I plan to pop that out and have a go at polishing out the light scratches. The 'mark' @ 15 on the constant seconds sub-dial is a tiny raindrop.

So, Yes - despite my protestations that I really didn't need another, I've ended up owning FIVE Yema N8 Flygrafs:

My original ex-Louis Beckensteiner example, plus 2 of each with cream and light green lume on original Yema straps.

Perhaps I ought to make this thread a 'sticky' at the top of this forum section to remind myself and prevent further temptation. 

Paul , the question is , when is enough? I wish I knew! I see there are two different Flygraf models! One being the earlier one with green lume and the other Flygraf with the cream colored lume as in your photo. I also noted and couldn't find any info on this is  that the earlier green lume model has a slightly different case back also. I did not see that noted anywhere. I am going to try really hard not to edit this again, I know you will know what I mean! 

Well spotted, Steve.  That's something I'd omitted to mention - though it wasn't what drove me to buy more than two.  Perhaps I thought it was too much anorak-level information.  You're correct, in that there are two different sets of case-back engravings / stampings. The one that's done in the smaller typeface has the additional text: MVMT JAPAN - ASSEMBLED IN FRANCE, but both are stamped with the effectively the same model number N8 OQ16 or N80Q16.

I haven't checked all five of my Flygrafs, to see whether this correlates to green vs cream lume on the dials, but just looking at the case-back photos I've posted in this thread, both versions of case-back engraving were used in the first year of production (1-xxxx serial numbers), so that additional text may have been a legal requirement for export to certain countries. But if that's the case, then why did two of my N8 Flygrafs, which both came from the States (the NOS one with cream lume and another with green lume) have different versions of case-back engraving ?

Not that I ever need much encouragement to delve into anorak-level depths, in the name of 'research', but I thought I'd follow up on Steve's recent comments. So this morning I got out all five of my Yema N8 Flygrafs, hoping that as a representative sample they might provide an answer - or at least form some sort of a pattern. They don't. 

I should add that unlike a couple of my Yema Spationaute III's, where I've swapped bezels / cases / case-backs / dials / hands / movements around (think 'Ole Yella'), my N8 Flygrafs remain in the exact same configurations that I bought them, save for a couple of strap changes.

Here's the relevant details in the (chronological) order I purchased them:

1) The ex-Louis-Eric Beckensteiner / Yema factory museum collection example, purchased on eBay France in December 2009 (paid 180 Euros).

Serial # 2-028. Small font case-back engraving. Green lume.

Fitted (by me) with a TSS Watchworx Brooklands MkII strap.

2) Used example off eBay Germany in January 2012 (paid 153.17 Euros).

Serial # 1-658. Small font case-back engraving. Green lume.

Came on original Yema black leather strap with wire loop buckle.

3) NOS example in US export market lacquered wooden box, purchased off eBay USA in March 2013 (paid $199 + eBay GSP charges).

Serial # 1776 (no dash). Large font case-back engraving. Cream lume.

Came on original Yema black leather strap with flat plated buckle.

4) Used example fitted with non-original strap, purchased (on my behalf by PHK) off eBay USA in January 2015 (paid $123.49).

Serial # 1-933. Small font case-back engraving. Green lume.

Fitted (by me) with Yema black leather strap with flat plated buckle.

5) Used example purchased off eBay UK in December 2015 (paid £115.13).

Serial # 3-176. Small font case-back engraving. Cream lume.

Came on original Yema 'double jonc' black shark strap with wire loop buckle.

I did think about putting the details of my five Flygrafs into an Excel spreadsheet - and then adding any other legible case-back serial numbers I'd seen on eBay in the last few years to the list. But as soon as I started writing down my own serial numbers on a notepad, it quickly became apparent that being able to sort them into order wouldn't provide any advantage / pattern.

One I did check out was Don's tidy example - purchased on eBay in the States in October 2016 (for a mere $105.50). It's serial number is 2-084. It has green lume and the small font case-back engraving - same as my first one (from France). I then briefly started skimming through the Yema N7s and N8s spotted... thread and soon came across another 2-xxx serial number (same small font case-back engraving) with cream lume. 

I conclude that there is no apparent relationship between serial number and style of case-back engraving, nor the country In which they were sold. In fact, the only thing this exercise served to illustrate is my earlier incorrect observation about cream lume (versus green) being used on later production watches. 

.... Yema's N8 Flygraf seems to have remained pretty much constant during its 5 year production lifespan from 1989 to 1994. The only differences I've observed is in the colour of lume compound used. Most early units seemed to have had light green lume, later watches cream lume. So strike that bit. 

Forgive me, fellow Yema-nites. 

For this day, I have suffered a relapse and strayed from the path of abstinence.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132509177473

Besides, it's been well over two years since I last purchased a N8 Flygraf. 

And No - of course I didn't pay $525 for it  ... nor anything like as much.