advice wanted - 7A28-7040 vs 7A28-703A vs 7A38-7020

7A28, 7A38 and 7A48 (plus 7A34, 7A36, 7A07 and 7A54)
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Peter_030
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advice wanted - 7A28-7040 vs 7A28-703A vs 7A38-7020

Post by Peter_030 »

I'm completely new to this, and I need guidance, advice, feedback. I'm looking for a 7A in (very) good condition for an (hopefully) acceptable price. You can read a bit about me in my introductory post here: https://seiko7a38.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=263

I've narrowed down my wish list to 3 items:

- 7A28-7040 : https://www.chrono24.com/seiko/speedmas ... 537709.htm
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AFAICT, its condition pretty much is as advertised, and the price seems very reasonable.
I don't mind the leather strap. No day/day is fine.
It's from within the EU, which is a bonus (no extra costs, apart from shipping)

- 7A28-703A : https://www.chrono24.com/seiko/pocket-w ... 080886.htm
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Aesthetically very attractive, IMHO. Condition appears as advertised. Absence of papers and/or box isn't important to me.
And I much appreciate the colour accents. Visually very appealing!
Price seems acceptable. Again a seller in the EU (see my comment above)

- 7A38-7020: https://www.ebay.com/itm/334719744321
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I've developed a (mild) soft spot for the RO 'look'.
Not too certain about the day/date in white (btw, can I set the day abbreviation to English?) but I assume a no-date version hasn't been made.
Price is within my budget if the watch cannot be faulted for unacceptable signs of wear.
Also sold from within the EU (no 22% VAT, custom fees, or import tax).

I'd like some guidance as to how these asking prices relate to the product: are they realistic, or should I disregard one or more offers.
Obviously, I'd like the best value for money, but it's unrealistic to expect that I'll find that. At some point, you must pay up and live with that (if you want the particular watch bad enough) or walk away, I guess

Your feedback is much appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.
~ John Archibald Wheeler

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Re: advice wanted - 7A28-7040 vs 7A28-703A vs 7A38-7020

Post by Seiko7A38 »

O.K., let's take your choices in the order which you posted them, Peter.

I don't know how much research you've done into the 7A28-704x, but there are three variants: the European export market 7A28-7040; the 7A28-7049 US Export market and the JDM 7A28-7040 (Japanese Domestic Market), which is the one you've picked. The quick and easy way to tell them apart is that the first two have SPORTS 100 printed on their dials and Chronograph is in an italic script. The JDM dial has CHRONOGRAPH printed in a smaller block capital font. The other distinguishing feature of the JDM variant is it usually comes fitted with a slightly modified bracelet with a desirable SPEEDMASTER logo'd clasp. So I find it a little strange that you've written: 'you don't mind the leather strap'.
As far as pricing goes, I'd say the seller is certainly pushing his luck @ €400 Euros. :lol: You could easily find a much better example on eBay (or Yahoo Japan) for that price, with a little patience and legwork. I don't use Chrono24 very much (if at all), but I do monitor 7A38 asking prices on there and generally they're much higher for the condition.

I don't collect 7A28's and only own one (a European export 7A28-7040), so I'm not really qualified to comment on them, but that 7A28-703A does look a very nice example, if rather expensive. You wrote that you appreciate the colour accents - that example is better than many I've seen. Orange sub-dial hands often fade to yellow and those haven't. What I would ask is have you looked at other variants using this case and bracelet ? Personally, if I was looking for one of these, I'd go for the more popular 7A28-703B or 7A28-7039 (US Market) with the 'reverse panda' dial.

The 7A38-7020 SAA009J and US market equivalent 7A38-7029 SAA013J is 'flavour of the month' and has been for some time, thanks to the 'Royal Oak' hype and price-hiking dealers. Whereas I personally would never consider paying that kind of money for a decent example (IIRC, the most I ever paid was $299), you'll probably end up paying €750 Euros for the privilege. But for Pete's sake, don't spend it on THAT example !!! I won't mince my words. That Italian seller's description is plain DISHONEST. He falsely claims: This very rare completely original specimen. The watch has been refurbished / refinished amateurishly, VERY BADLY. The once sharp swage lines on the lug ends of the watch case have been completely obliterated and the corners rounded off. It's been RUINED. If you want to see how this watch case should look, take a scroll through the last few pages of the WRUW thread, starting here. This is a 7A38-7020 watch case which I re-furbished many years ago (deliberately intended to build a Franken). Notice the sharp swage lines (although I didn't quite get the lug angles spot on).
Peter_030 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:22 pmNot too certain about the day/date in white (btw, can I set the day abbreviation to English?) but I assume a no-date version hasn't been made.
White Day / Date wheels are correct for this model (contrast against the black sub-dial). All 7A38 day wheels are dual language, and can be easily set. Generally the stainless 7A38-7020 SAA009J comes with English / German or sometimes French and the 7A38-7029 SAA013J comes with English / Spanish. If a no-date version existed, it would be a 7A28. :P

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Re: advice wanted - 7A28-7040 vs 7A28-703A vs 7A38-7020

Post by Peter_030 »

Thank you so much for taking the time for such a comprehensive and informative reply.

When my interest for a 7A watch had been piqued, and I spent quite some time attempting to educate myself, but consider me an absolute novice. FWIW, I've been interested in quartz chronos for a while and, unsurprisingly, have mostly seen items that are still readily available. Mostly 'discovered' via reviews and postings in watch forums, like e.g. WUS. As I've told in my introductory post, I narrow my initial selection via a combination of price and aesthetics. When I limit my interest to recent chrono offerings from Seiko, I'm invariably disappointed by the (IMHO) fact that so many good-looking watches (think the current Prospex Speedtimer line) are, upon closer inspection, let down by Seiko's current quartz movement of choice, the calibre V192. Whatever its qualities may be, I hate that useless 24 hr AM/PM register at 3 o'clock, and don't much like the date at 04.30 either. I'm very picky, and that's deal-breaker territory.

So movements that show 3 (or 2, for that matter) useful registers in 'standard' layout (no date necessary AFAIC, but acceptable at 3 or 6 o'clock), I'm interested. And when I repeatedly read that Seiko's 7A series featured movements that have been built with an attention to quality and QC that has rarely, if ever, seen since, I knew where to spend my time.

So here I am. FYI, I don't want to become an expert to the level that I can discuss these watches with some confidence with true aficionados and hard-core collectors. I'm just someone who likes what he sees and needs some guidance as to how to go about acquiring such a watch. The finer specs differences will, I think, not make much difference. You've seen I'm not concentrating my initial selection on a particular model/type. I'm not (yet) into selecting on regional releases, their respective differences, and the pros and cons thereof. Serious and very knowledgeable collectors would want to use these parameters to refine their choices, but that's not me.

That said, I don't want to make an impulsive purchase, only to find out that I made a (preventable) wrong choice: deceived by manipulated images, inaccurate descriptions or promises, prices that do not reflect the quality of the watch on offer by any stretch of the imagination.

A very long write-up that, I hope, makes my position and interest a little more clear. And your help is invaluable with that. I realise your guidance and feedback about what's seen online doesn't offer ironclad guarantees. But it's, IMHO, far better to have your considered opinion added to my knowledge, than to blindly click that 'Buy' button.

I've studied your comments carefully and hope, in the light of the above, you'll forgive me such comments as 'I don't mind the strap'. I know that a collectible watch that's not in original condition isn't worth it in the eyes of a true collector. But I'm not into bracelets at all and, while you may snub that 7A28-7040 seen on a strap in the image, I'm not concerned at all (provided the actual watch is up to scratch, of course)."Heresy!", I hear you yell. But not to me, I'm afraid. You may disqualify such a watch as being a 'Frankenwatch', instantly worthless, but not using an original bracelet/strap is acceptable to me.

Of course, I'll gladly take your advice to look into 'reverse panda' models, and if I've found one for consideration, I'll be back here, soliciting your considered opinion again. And, of course, explore other (equally unfamiliar) sources. FWIW, Yahoo Japan displays this @ https://www.yahoo.co.jp/
From Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Yahoo! JAPAN is no longer available in the EEA and the United Kingdom
and the likes of Rakuten scare the living daylights out of me. Even with the help of e.g. Buyee I'm not much at ease. Frankly. English-language sites, familiar navigation, and 'safe buy' options attract me very much.

Finally: I'm extremely grateful for your illuminating remarks (and outright warning) regarding that 'rare' RO model. Without years of experience, it's a rookie mistake to trust a 5-star write-up by a seller at first sight (perhaps on a subconscious level). I've been online long enough to know better, but still.

I'd like to end this by apologising beforehand if any of my remarks have offended you in the slightest. I've just written my points of view from the heart and did not intend to dismiss superior knowledge or disparage (parts of) your feedback in any way. I know I may come across as superficial (and maybe that's true), but I'll not start collecting 7A watches. I'd just love to acquire one I can enjoy wearing from time to time. But I'm not in a hurry.
Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.
~ John Archibald Wheeler

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Re: advice wanted - 7A28-7040 vs 7A28-703A vs 7A38-7020

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Peter_030 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:09 pmFWIW, Yahoo Japan displays this @ https://www.yahoo.co.jp/
From Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Yahoo! JAPAN is no longer available in the EEA and the United Kingdom
and the likes of Yakuten scare the living daylights out of me. Even with the help of e.g. Buyee I'm not much at ease. Frankly. English-language sites, familiar navigation, and 'safe buy' options attract me very much.
Yes it's unfortunate that Yahoo Japan took the easy way out (rather than comply with European regulations). I wrote about the obfuscation in a thread in the eBay section: Sayonara Yahoo Japan auctions. I'd started using Buyee before YJ pulled the plug, but it's much easier to use YJ to search. Thing is, if you're particularly looking for a JDM version of a watch, Yahoo Japan really is the logical place to search. The only thing to watch out for is short bracelets (missing adjustment links) - Japanese tend to have smaller wrists. That's probably the reason for the example you looked at on Chrono24 being fitted with a leather strap. ;)

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Re: advice wanted - 7A28-7040 vs 7A28-703A vs 7A38-7020

Post by Peter_030 »

I've just used Buyee (convenient for English-language use and euro prices) to browse Yahoo Auctions and was (very) disappointed. Using search parameter 7A38 the returns were few: all well below the quality I'd like to see ('damaged/a little dirty' seemed a default description for the condition), and many were just cases with Zulu straps awkwardly forced between the lugs. To add insult to injury: ridiculous prices (most over €1,000!). Embarrassing, from what I've seen.

Example: https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/j10 ... st_history
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Searching with 7A238 yielded more results, but, AFACT, on the whole with the same low quality, overpriced offerings.

Please note, that acquiring watches from Japan (I' bought here before via 'regular JDM sellers) means a surcharge of some 25% (!) when importing into the EU: 22% VAT and the rest is custom fees and import duties.

Example; https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/q10 ... ch_suggest
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From what I've seen, I'll forego Japan as a source until I've been shown it's worth another look. Germany and Italy/Spain seem better sourced.

With regard to Japan, I can only assume that, given a finite number of these watches being available, auction snipers from outside of Japan have relentlessly picked out the best watches over the years, leaving these sorry remnants for more or less gullible visitors such as myself.
Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.
~ John Archibald Wheeler

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Re: advice wanted - 7A28-7040 vs 7A28-703A vs 7A38-7020

Post by Peter_030 »

I've spent the past few days in an attempt to educate myself with regard to 'spot a fake'. I now realise that I'll never be able to make an informed decision about what looks like an attractive offer on e.g. eBay. Having read this topic: https://www.thewatchsite.com/threads/eb ... id.331631/, I'm now filled with absolute dread and horror. I've said I was new to the whole vintage watch acquisition thing, but now I know that I'm unbelievably naive. Just taking a close look at posted images isn't enough, I've seen.

Long story short: eBay et al isn't for me. The risk of making a wrong choice is, when you're as inexperienced as I am, is simply far too great.
I'll step away from attempting to find a nice 7A28 for the time being (or any used watch for that matter). I know now that I'm completely unqualified to make good and informed decisions in these matters. A sucker for those unscrupulous *rseholes out there that'll gladly sell me cleverly disguised rubbish at completely unrealistic prices. Liars, cheats, con men, etc. The risk of being taken advantage of isn't worth it, IMHO.

I'd like to thank you for allowing me here and post my n00b rants. Your advice has shown me that buying from the likes of eBay isn't for people like myself and is best left to those who have wide experience and deep knowledge.

Please note that I'll be reading many other topics on this forum with interest.
We''ll meet again ;)
Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.
~ John Archibald Wheeler

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