Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

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jfield
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Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

Post by jfield »

Hi Everyone. I've recently acquired two Yema N8 (7A38) models. First being the Spationaute III Aragatz space mission model with a badly scratched crystal and I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on replacement crystal and the appropriate gasket that would go along with this model?
There are some I found on ebay (shipped from UK) with part #459 but with no mention of manufacturer therefore not willing to take the risk. Same question apply to the other N8 Flygraf, do they use the same crystal and gasket?
Additionally, anyone knows if boley GmbH's Seiko database has the parts listed for these watches?
(Seiko did own their brand during the time these were made)
Thanks for any help/advice in advance, J.

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Thanks for posting your questions here, Justin. ;)

The answers to most of them, including the Meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything (it's actually 43mm not 42) are to be found on the old archived forum. Specifically in the Crystals and Gaskets thread, which I strongly recommend you take the trouble to read through. It may not be in the most ordered fashion, but it contains so much useful information.

Before I go any further, I'll quickly answer a couple of your simpler questions. The 30.5mm diameter crystals used in the (full sized 43mm) Yema Spationaute III Aragatz and N8 Flygraf are identical - as indeed are their watch cases. The only real differences between them are their bezels and (lack of) ratcheting mechanism. Their crystals are slightly double-domed, meaning that the undersides are opposedly concave and approximately 2.8mm thick. A bit more substantial than the crystal used in the much-vaunted Omega Speedmaster Professional. However something you may not have realized is that they're not actually mineral glass, but a very hard acrylic plastic material, similar to the 'Hesalite' material used in the eponymous 'Moon Watch' - but rather harder.

Looking at the photo of your Spationaute III, which you consider has a 'badly scratched crystal', all I can see in the way of significant damage is a small graze above the '0' on the 1/10s sub-dial. I have a couple of 'beater' Spationaute III's with scratched crystals (that I haven't replaced) which are much worse than that. I'll post one in the WRUW thread presently. It's possible with a little effort to polish out lighter scuffs and scratches (not deeper ones) and I'd suggest that's something you might want to consider trying first, before replacing your crystal with any generic substitute.

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

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Seiko7A38 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:18 amThe answers to most of them can be found on the old archived forum. Specifically in the Crystals and Gaskets thread, which I strongly recommend you take the trouble to read through.
Indeed, the answer to your primary question can be found on page 4 of the old forum's Crystals and Gaskets thread. 8-)
The story actually starts on page 2 of the thread (you'll be well recommended to read the entire thing) with this post:

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It continued a couple of months later, in April 2014, (on page 4 of the Crystals and Gaskets thread with above quoted):

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In the original thread, I've posted a sequence of 6 photos, showing the increasing levels of distortion caused by using that flat bottomed replacement crystal, as the watch approaches the horizontal angle. You can view them there. :P

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That said, it's a very cheap and acceptable solution as a replacement for a badly scratched crystal. Unless you happen to spend a lot of time looking at your watch sideways on. :lol: Even today, Cousins p/n DF250CMH305 costs a mere £1.95. This is exactly the same 30.5mm flat bottomed mineral glass generic replacement that UK eBay seller watchfan700uk would have you pay £14.99 for per the link you included in your PM: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123832637882 and
jfield wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:37 amThere are some I found on eBay (shipped from UK) with part #459 ....
.... with that (completely irrelevant) p/n #459 reference. Many of the substitute replacement crystals listed by that eBay seller (real name Stuart Tomanek) are nothing more than Cousin's cheap generic mineral glass crystals which he presumably repackages. I strongly suspect he got his inspiration for many of the Seiko 7Axx substitute replacements (and the Spationaute III) by studying my findings in the Crystals and Gaskets thread. :x

Regarding replacement crystal gaskets, sorry to reiterate, but if you've taken the trouble to read through that thread, you'll know that I personally advocate not replacing them, unless absolutely necessary and re-using the original OEM gasket whenever possible. I can't remember having replaced the crystal gasket in any of my Spationaute III's, but may quite possibly have done so in my original 'parts donor', that subsequently became my 'bitza' mission flags dial watch.

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Damn !! There's so much useful information in that Crystals and Gaskets thread - and an 'aide memoire' on page 2 !! 8-)

Incidentally, that much loved 'bitza' Spationaute III (my very first) with the desirable 'mission flags' dial later benefited from fitting the correct original crystal and gasket (courtesy of a scrap Yema L5 OQ4 6 Ana-digi Yachtingraf*) and by subsequently replacing the later polished hands (wrong for this variant) with the correct earlier silver painted set. ;)

*The L5 OQ6 6 Ana-digi Spationaute, which shares the same case as the L5 Yachtingraf also use the same crystal. :idea:

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

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Although I've suggested it to Justin, I've never personally successfully managed to polish a badly scratched crystal myself. At least not to my satisfaction. As indeed, I'd written earlier on page 2 of the Crystal and Gaskets thread. :(

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I now know that the technique I used was wrong. :oops: As you can see, I mounted the crystal on a rubber mandrel, held in the chuck of a mini-drill, using double-sided tape - and then spun it up applying various grades of Wet and Dry paper. This might seem the logical way to go about it (or at least it did to me, at the time), because the rotation should help achieve a consistent profile. It does. But it also generates a fair amount of heat, which causes what's best described as 'particle flow' and every subsequent attempt at sanding with finer grade papers results in clouding. :cry:

Six months ago, a then newly joined member of SCWF started posting (at every opportunity) promoting his crystal polishing services. Obviously they were firmly aimed at the 'Pogue' fraternity. :roll: He eventually managed to reach the required 50-post mark, to legitimately advertise them. Since then he's received some very positive reviews of his work.

Here's links to just a couple of recent SCWF threads:
https://www.thewatchsite.com/threads/cr ... ion.342723
https://www.thewatchsite.com/threads/it ... re.343785/

His name is Ben Levy and he charges $30 Au. per crystal. The only slight problem logistically is that he's in Australia.
Ben is also on Instagram as: @levy_crystal_restorations

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I have at least five scratched Spationaute III crystals (43mm and 38mm 'reduced') that I must get around to posting. :!:

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Here's a slightly different photo, to the one I just posted in the WRUW thread, of one of my two Yema Spationaute III's with the 'cadran drapeaux' mission flags dial, that are currently fitted with the generic Cousins p/n DF250CMH305 flat bottomed mineral glass replacement crystal. One thing I've noticed with them is that they're more prone to picking up reflections. Check out just over 'TACHYMETRE'. The photo below was taken just seconds after the one I posted in the WRUW thread (without any reflection); no change in lighting or cloud cover. All it took was a slight twist of my wrist - by matter of a couple of degrees.

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Speaking of the 'Angle of Dangle', the problem of distortion caused by using that flat-bottomed crystal, which I possibly demonstrated in extremis in the old forum's Crystal and Gaskets thread (incidentally using this same watch), isn't really that bad. Not in everyday in real world use. In this next shot, I've tried to show the point at which the distortion starts to creep in. Do you ever try reading your watch beyond this angle ?

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

Post by Seiko7A38 »

jfield wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:37 am(Seiko did own their brand during the time these were made)
STOP PRESS ! :!: Sorry for the cheap sarcasm, Justin. :P It's well known (and cited many times before on this forum) that Seiko France effectively ran Yema (and other French brands like JAZ) from 1988 through to 1995 via their C.G.H. conglomerate: Compagnie Genérale Horlogère. They enforced the use of Seiko-Hattori movements on Yema - in their N8's in the guise of the Shimauchi Ltd. V906 re-branded version of the Seiko 7A38 movement. Other than that, Yema (and JAZ) appear to have had free reign to source their casing components, dials, straps, etc. elsewhere locally. I've never managed to find any Yema part number listings (which is half the battle in identifying and sourcing spare parts).

However, I've often wondered if the Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals were actually a Seiko supplied component. As we've established, the Yema crystal is 30.5mm Ø, 2.8mm thick at the edge, slightly double domed and hard acrylic material, akin to Hesalite, rather than mineral glass. Seiko used a very similar crystal in a couple of their rather more unconventional looking 'Divers': the 7A38-6060 SAA071J and 7A38-6070 SAA073J. It was Seiko p/n 300WF2FK01, being a similar specification but 30.0mm Ø and a whopping 3.5mm thick at the edge. The JDM equivalent model (albeit with a slightly different case design), the 7A38-6050 SJS058, uses Seiko p/n 300WF2HK01 (one character 'H' different). Sadly no amount of googling on permutations of Seiko p/n 305WF2..... has so far produced any result. :(

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

Post by jfield »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:18 amLooking at the photo of your Spationaute III, which you consider has a 'badly scratched crystal', all I can see in the way of significant damage is a small graze above the '0' on the 1/10s sub-dial. I have a couple of 'beater' Spationaute III's with scratched crystals (that I haven't replaced) which are much worse than that. I'll post one in the WRUW thread presently. It's possible with a little effort to polish out lighter scuffs and scratches (not deeper ones) and I'd suggest that's something you might want to consider trying first, before replacing your crystal with any generic substitute.
Thanks for the suggestions, yes I did spend about 10-15 min with Polywatch and came away with some improvement but I imagined, like you said, it's a harder material than Hesalite, I might keep using Polywatch and a Dremel tool to see if I can take it further - heat would be your biggest enemy at this point. Another thing I forgot to mention there appears to have some cloudiness at the back of the crystal, I probably need to see they are old grease stains and if I can clean it out from the inside (without removing the crystal).

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

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Seiko7A38 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:53 amRegarding replacement crystal gaskets, sorry to reiterate, but if you've taken the trouble to read through that thread, you'll know that I personally advocate not replacing them, unless absolutely necessary and re-using the original OEM gasket whenever possible. I can't remember having replaced the crystal gasket in any of my Spationaute III's, but may quite possibly have done so in my original 'parts donor', that subsequently became my 'bitza' mission flags dial watch.
Agree! I always wonder if replacing crystals would need new gaskets in tandem - not that I'm taking the watch in space, not even at the local pool. :lol:
I looked over your reference on this Yema model before buying it, looks like the variant I have doesn't have lume? :o

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Re: Spationaute III and N8 Flygraf crystals

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jfield wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:55 amAnother thing I forgot to mention there appears to have some cloudiness at the back of the crystal, I probably need to see they are old grease stains and if I can clean it out from the inside (without removing the crystal).
It's not unusual, though from my experience (and other's), you're more likely to encounter it on NOS examples, where it's fairly common. When I first saw it, I incorrectly assumed it might be some poorly applied AR coating. I suspect it's caused by a combination of factors: fumes given off by gassing old run-down batteries, filtering through the movement, carrying an oily film (dissolved from the jewels) with them. It's a simple matter to wipe it off from inside the case, with the crystal in situ. I generally use kitchen paper towel with a small squirt of Windolene applied to it.
jfield wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:03 amI looked over your reference on this Yema model before buying it, looks like the variant I have doesn't have lume? :o
Not unusual either, Justin. If you look through the many photos of my Spationaute III's I've posted online over the years, you'll see that their dials' hour baton lume plots are frequently empty, with raised yellow outlines, containing just flat white backgrounds. Indeed I tend to avoid the variants with lumed batons, because often as not the lume appears to be yellow-ish and has a propensity to darken with age to rather less attractive shades - a prime example below. :(

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These are the parts left over from my original Yema Spationaute III 'parts donor' that I used to construct my 'bitza' with the 'mission flags' dial, way back in 2010. I thought I had a better photo of just the dial on file. Indeed I probably do, somewhere, but this will suffice to illustrate my point. Note that the dial is the 'minimal printing' version, like yours (without the PARIS and QUARTZ text), but it has lume, presumably once yellow, that has badly discoloured with age.

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