The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

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The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

That I still continue to see, nearly 11 years after I posted my first salutary warning about it, in a suitably titled thread: A Rant about High Street Watch-Botchers, here, on the RLT UK watch forum in April 2010, is frequently inadvertently caused by owners and clumsy watchmakers alike, usually during battery changes.

Prompted by another similar instance (seen on RLT in February 2012), I created the topic in the old forum's Tech Tips section and made it a 'sticky': The all-too-common Displaced Finger Tension Spring chrono' sweep hand problem

Forum member Chris ('7ARCool ©') asked me to expand on the 'finger tension spring' problem and I posted this in reply:

DisplacedCentreSecondsFingerTensionSpring-Post.jpg
DisplacedCentreSecondsFingerTensionSpring-Post.jpg (190.19 KiB) Viewed 6999 times

Despite the old forum's thread receiving nearly 15,000 views, it's still happening. :roll: So here's a new sticky reminder. :P

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Just to show that sightings on eBay are still a regular (if not quite daily) occurrence, here's another example of this classic cock-up that appeared overnight:

rsz_7a38-7280-stainless-gold-greyface-ebay-feb2021-re-seller-5.jpg
rsz_7a38-7280-stainless-gold-greyface-ebay-feb2021-re-seller-5.jpg (255.31 KiB) Viewed 6972 times

It's included in a Buy-it-Now listing by a US eBay seller, for a well-worn partly functional two-tone 7A38-7280. His asking price is $72. He only purchased it himself just over a week ago, from another US eBay seller, who roughly described the symptoms, but didn't include a photo of the movement. The current would-be re-seller won the auction for $71. I guess his photo has got to be worth the extra $1 buck !! :lol:

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Here's another example of this classic cock-up. This photo was included in a short-lived eBay listing by a US eBay seller, for a well-worn 7A38-702H 'Parts or Repair' which sold yesterday evening for $99.99.

rsz_7a38-702h-stainless-gold-ebay-march2021-8.jpg
rsz_7a38-702h-stainless-gold-ebay-march2021-8.jpg (227.29 KiB) Viewed 6959 times

The seller's description included the sweeping statement: The movement will probably need to be replaced. :roll:

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Another classic example from a regular purveyor of Seiko 7Axx's, French eBay seller 2015-mokra, who evidently has still not learned from his previous similar mistakes. :roll: This morning he listed a stainless 7A38-7280, (which incidentally has a couple of other issues besides) one of which could probably be very easily rectified.

rsz_7a38-7280-stainless-whiteface-ebay-dec2021-10.jpg
rsz_7a38-7280-stainless-whiteface-ebay-dec2021-10.jpg (243.23 KiB) Viewed 5814 times
Regarding the chronograph part, only the 1/10 of a second hand is functional when the chronograph is triggered.
The large hand allows the counting of seconds remains blocked as well as the one at 9 o'clock counting the elapsed minutes.
Yup. That looks pretty well blocked to me. :lol:

When I wrote 'his previous similar mistakes', I was referring to the instances where I'd cited his incompetence in various threads on the old forum, but belatedly checking the photos of the titanium 7A38-7120, he listed a fortnight ago, that's also suffering from the same self-inflicted fault. :roll:

rsz_7a38-7120-titanium-gold-creamface-ebay-dec2021-9.jpg
rsz_7a38-7120-titanium-gold-creamface-ebay-dec2021-9.jpg (243.01 KiB) Viewed 5802 times
The chronograph function should be reviewed because it does not work.
D'accord ! :P

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Another year - and it's still happening ! :lol:

I don't normally take that much interest in 7A28's, but this one came up in my eBay saved search notifications this afternoon; I assume because it included 'RAF' in the description. It's a 7A28-7039 with 'military provenance' (owned by the seller's father), which prompted me to take a look.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1984-Seiko-7 ... 4407593493

7A28-7039-Stainless+Black-eBay-Jan2023-Listing.jpg
7A28-7039-Stainless+Black-eBay-Jan2023-Listing.jpg (194.4 KiB) Viewed 2521 times

This part of the description made me chuckle:
Up for sale is a great original used condition 7a28-7039 Quartz chrono or synchro timer, recently fitted with a new battery but needs a service (all registers work and reset correctly though centre seconds hand sticks on 12 -
I’m not a service expert but have it on good authority this is common and easily remedied
).
Check out the photo of the movement. :roll:

rsz_7a28-7039-stainless-black-ebay-jan2023-8.jpg
rsz_7a28-7039-stainless-black-ebay-jan2023-8.jpg (244.77 KiB) Viewed 2520 times

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

You can sometimes tell a lot about an eBay seller from their choice of username. Perhaps I was quick to prejudge, but when I first encountered i-like-watches-and-buy-watches-sell-to-me sometime last year, my first thought was not 'watch dealer', but 'moron'. Yesterday evening they provided further evidence, when they listed a common-or-garden gold-tone 7A38-7190 in average worn condition, calling it 'SO RARE'. The second line of their description outlines the classic symptoms of a deflected centre seconds finger tension spring.

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-Description.png
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-Description.png (12.44 KiB) Viewed 2223 times

Why these people think it warrants a total of 24 photos is beyond me, but they include 4 of the movement back-plate, covered in fingerprints and fitted with an undersized battery to boot. The last three photos are close-up zooms of the finger tension spring bearing on the side of the axle. Morons !!

rsz_7a38-7190-gold-goldface-ebay-feb2023-17.jpg
rsz_7a38-7190-gold-goldface-ebay-feb2023-17.jpg (244.32 KiB) Viewed 2228 times
rsz_7a38-7190-gold-goldface-ebay-feb2023-18.jpg
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rsz_7a38-7190-gold-goldface-ebay-feb2023-19.jpg
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rsz_7a38-7190-gold-goldface-ebay-feb2023-20.jpg
rsz_7a38-7190-gold-goldface-ebay-feb2023-20.jpg (237.33 KiB) Viewed 2228 times

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Ha. I wonder what the error might have been. :lol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134459870018

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-Ended-Error.png
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-Ended-Error.png (64.54 KiB) Viewed 2213 times

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

To my utter disbelief, this incompetent eBay seller, with the stupidly long username, re-listed that gold-tone 7A38-7190 yesterday evening, as a 3-day auction, with the opening bid reduced to £100. Apart from the much lower price, nothing else has changed, not a word of the description nor the multiple photos of their cock-up. :lol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOXED-1990s- ... 4463332578

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-Re-Listing.jpg
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-Re-Listing.jpg (194.3 KiB) Viewed 2084 times

Edit: I notice they've since revised the listing twice - increasing the opening bid price to £120 and then £130. :roll:

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-(re-listed)-Revisions.png
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-(re-listed)-Revisions.png (17.23 KiB) Viewed 2182 times

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Although it concerns a watch with a displaced finger tension spring, this sequence of posts exhibiting the incompetence of this dim-witted seller probably better belongs in the eBay section. I've started it here, so I'll carry on. Yesterday, in exasperation, I sent the seller a sarcastically worded message. We appear to have had a failure to communicate. :lol:

7A38-7190-Gold-eBay-Feb2023-Message.png
7A38-7190-Gold-eBay-Feb2023-Message.png (29.82 KiB) Viewed 2175 times

It was hardly surprising, despite having garnered 17 watchers, that their 3-day auction (with the increased opening bid price of £130) failed to attract a bid and went unsold. They re-listed it again twice yesterday evening: once as a 10-day auction with an opening bid price of £150 and a second time as a Buy-it-Now for £175. They clearly have no idea. :roll:

7A38-7190-Gold-eBay-Feb2023-Re-listed-Twice-Summary.png
7A38-7190-Gold-eBay-Feb2023-Re-listed-Twice-Summary.png (111.67 KiB) Viewed 2171 times

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

As I posited - absolutely NO idea !! :lol: Yesterday they reduced both listings - to £100 opening bid and £130 Buy-it-Now !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134468047425
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134468040871

7A38-7190-Gold-eBay-Feb2023-Re-listed-Twice-Summary-Revised.png
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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

I'm not sure whether this sorry saga is finally over, but yesterday evening, the re-listed 10-day auction for that gold-tone 7A38-7190 ended without any bids placed - unsold.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134468047425

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-(Re-listed)-Ended-Unsold.png
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-(Re-listed)-Ended-Unsold.png (55.78 KiB) Viewed 2105 times

The hapless eBay seller ended the other parallel listing in the early hours of this morning, because of another error. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134468040871

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-Feb2023-(Re-listed)-Ended-Error.png
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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seems not. :roll: The incompetent seller with the stupidly long username re-listed it yet again yesterday evening, as another 10-day auction with the same £100 opening bid price. Still the same description (and the fault) remains. :lol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-BOXED-V ... 4483325315

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-March2023-Re-Listing.jpg
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-March2023-Re-Listing.jpg (216.19 KiB) Viewed 2083 times

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

They ended the above re-listing in the early hours of this morning as allegedly no longer available.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134483325315

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-March2023-(Re-listed)-Ended-NLA.png
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-March2023-(Re-listed)-Ended-NLA.png (57.79 KiB) Viewed 2031 times

However, checking my eBay watching page, it looks as if it finally sold against the other Buy-it-Now listing, on Saturday evening, for a reduced price of £95.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134485492084

7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-March2023-(Re-listed)-Ended-Sold-95.png
7A38-7190-Gold-GoldFace-eBay-March2023-(Re-listed)-Ended-Sold-95.png (58.76 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

Hopefully whoever bought it will have read this and put matters to rights. It should take just a couple of minutes.

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

I've just spotted another classic example of this self-inflicted fault. Overnight, a well-worn 7A38-7080 was listed by a US eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with a low starting bid of $1. The second paragraph of their description reads:

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-eBay-August2023-Description.png
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-eBay-August2023-Description.png (14.68 KiB) Viewed 1503 times

Their photos are generally all over-exposed, but the shot of the movement shows their cock-up clearly enough. :roll:

rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-ebay-august2023-11.jpg
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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

I still occasionally encounter deflected finger tension springs myself - in watches in my own collection. :o This morning I'd noticed that a two-tone 7A38-724A was doing the two-second two-step, indicating that its battery needed replacing. As a sanity check, I started the chronograph. The sweep hand operated normally, as it always had done, but the 1/10 second hand only rotated every other second. I was a little bemused, because I'd only bought this watch two years ago, in September 2021 and I've been seeing battery life of 5½ to 6 years from my Seizaiken 394's. It dawned on me that I probably hadn't replaced the battery, because the watch was running OK when I received it. Sure enough ....

rsz_p1920067.jpg
rsz_p1920067.jpg (242.96 KiB) Viewed 1306 times

The battery fitted was a cheap and nasty T&E button cell, which had just started to leak. But look what else I found !
Yet oddly the sweep hand had always worked perfectly on this watch, on the few occasions I'd run the self-test.

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Earlier this week, I caved in and bought my first '7A38' of 2024, from a UK eBay seller. It's a Puma Y19201-70 in gunmetal two-tone finish, with a white dial - a variation that was missing from my collection. I don't like paying dealer prices and had negotiated a small discount, but still paid 'over the odds' for it, to my mind (compared to previous examples in my collection). It was shipped yesterday (by RMSD) and although there were still zero tracking updates available online at 10:00 this morning*, the postman has just delivered it. I'm slightly annoyed for another reason. Normally, I'd strip and clean the watch at some point, as a matter of course. But I'm going to have to unscrew the case-back and re-seat the centre seconds finger tension spring, before I do anything else !!

The seller's lengthy description stated that the battery had been replaced in March 2024 and that the watch has been tested and works flawlessly. I fail to understand how. Among the two dozen photos of the watch he'd uploaded, were these two of the JEPIC CORP Y19 movement, showing a displaced centre seconds finger tension spring:

rsz_puma-y19201-70-gunmetal-gold-whiteface-ebay-march2024-21.jpg
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rsz_puma-y19201-70-gunmetal-gold-whiteface-ebay-march2024-22.jpg
rsz_puma-y19201-70-gunmetal-gold-whiteface-ebay-march2024-22.jpg (241.32 KiB) Viewed 195 times

Whether he's the actual culprit, I think it's fair to name and shame the eBay seller ianwoodland63. He's Ian Woodland (a.k.a. Woody's Watches) who has had literally dozens of 7Axx's pass through his hands over the last 10 years. He really should know better by now. 👎 Funnily enough, I just checked the thread which he started about his newly acquired 7A38-705A on the old forum, back in January 2013. Guess what he posted halfway down the page. :lol:

7A38-705A-Woody-036.jpg
7A38-705A-Woody-036.jpg (92.37 KiB) Viewed 171 times

*The reason for the complete lack of RMSD (or eBay) tracking updates turned out to be one incorrect digit in the tracking number he'd keyed into eBay shipping. :roll:

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Re: The commonest self-inflicted fault on 7Axx's ....

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Just as well I checked. He obviously didn't notice it. :roll:

rsz_p1950034.jpg
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