Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

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Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

E-commerce is a truly wonderful thing, but it can also be an absolute minefield for the novice buyer, particularly when it comes to recognizing that certain watches listed on eBay by Japanese sellers may not always be what they seem. :!:

Apart from the problems of translating Kanji, Japanese culture has always been different, particularly when it comes to buying online. :? The preferred domestic sales platform for selling secondhand watches is, without doubt, Yahoo Japan Auctions, although there are other options. which allow fixed price listings, like Rakuten and Mercari (of more anon). ;)

There is no longer any such thing as eBay Japan. The US e-commerce giant ever really managed to establish a foothold. See extract below from this blog article which gives the timelines:

Ebay-was-in-Japan.png
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The Japanese eBay URL still exists, but only as selling portal blog, offering advice to sellers: https://www.ebay.co.jp/
One of the tools eBay subsequently created to facilitate this (and also overtly infiltrate Yahoo Japan, via the back door) is the Sekaimon interface:

Sekaimon-Website-Header.png
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Even to this day, this cross platform selling device serves to confuse many an experienced eBay / Yahoo Japan user. :?
One of the primary exponents of this semi-automated eBay tool is Yahoo Japan 'Store' re-seller salttotheworld_2008. They currently have over 284,000 eBay items (none of which belong to them) listed on Yahoo Japan !! :o In the past, they've often quite justifably been accused of being scammers, as in this thread on SCWF dating from January 2020.

I've been trying, without success unfortunately, to find the thread on the old archived forum, where I made this post:

YahooJapan-SalttotheWorld-SekaimonReSeller-Post.png
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Although the number of eBay items listed on Yahoo Japan by salttotheworld_2008 has increased by over 100,000 since I made that post in April 2019, thankfully the number of Seiko 7Axx's included among them has diminished significantly. Currently they have only one 7A28 and two 7A38's listed on Yahoo Japan (both owned by a less vigilant US eBay seller). It's academic anyway, because they'll never sell. The US eBay seller is asking the same Buy-it-Now price: $499 for both, which frankly is far too much given their non-original condition. Whatever mark-up algorithm salttotheworld_2008 has chosen, that factors out to 82,107 Yen on Yahoo Japan, but because they're a 'Store' seller, you'll also need to add 10% Japanese Sales tax, making a total price each of 90,317 Yen - equivalent to approx. $825 !! :lol:

At this point, it would be remiss of me not to mention Yahoo Japan profiteering re-seller swotlab, whose activity has provided me with a great deal of amusement over the years. He's definitely an 'old school' dealer. He bids on and buys Seikos (usually from eBay.com) imports them to Japan and lists them on Yahoo Japan as auctions, with their opening bid prices suitably marked-up from what he'd paid, usually having done nothing more than take his own set of photos. These always follow a standard format, that he still uses to this day, comprising a single photo of the watch, head-on diagonally and another composite 'collage' image of usually six more photos. His usual stock in trade was what I would call 'low end' 7Axx's, which he often purchased from Filipino eBay sellers, so he sometimes had difficulty selling them for a profit. He currently has over 200 Seiko's listed on YJ, but I can't remember seeing him list a 7A38 in a long time.

Nowadays, with the ever-increasing demand for JDM 7Axx's, from 'Gaijin' Seiko collectors, the traffic usually goes in the opposite direction: from Yahoo Japan to eBay.com. I've already written about profiteering US eBay re-seller rtm127, who appears to be trying to corner the market in 7A28-7090 Yacht Timers, in this thread in the 7A28 model section.

He may be greedy, but in hogging the market for desirable JDM Seiko's coming out of Yahoo Japan Auctions, there is none more loathsome than profiteering cross-platform Japanese eBay re-seller jap_t_t_w :x (Finish off later). :!:


Then there's the other less than scrupulous kind, which I refer to as the 'proxy' re-sellers. The way they operate is that the Japanese eBay re-seller steals (there is no other word for it) the photos from the original bona fide seller's listing (be it on Yahoo Japan or wherever). Then, presumably without asking permission of the seller, they create their own listing on eBay.com using those photos, often as not a 'generic' description, usually pricing the watch as a Buy-it-Now in $ US at double (sometimes even three times) the original seller's Yen equivalent price. If any mug punter is foolhardy enough to buy their 'borrowed' over-priced item off eBay, they rapidly purchase it from the original seller, which can sometimes take up to a week to arrive, then forward it on, to their buyer and casually pocket the difference.

This distinctly under-handed activity been going on for literally years, unchecked by eBay who, keen to rake in as much commission on sales as possible, by whatever means, fair or foul, are evidently conveniently turning a blind eye to it.
Here's a post I made in reply to a thread on SCWF, over 2½ years ago.

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Thankfully, utsun_2014 seems to be no longer active. fe-shop-japan still are, but haven't dabbled in 7Axx's in a while.
Others include: ys-variety, japanese_mountain_stream, japan_awesome_deals_kens and oriental-vintage-modern.

japan_pre-owned_vintage is now the pre-eminent 'proxy' Japanese re-seller of 7Axx's. Not content with just eBay.com, in parallel, they create duplicate listings, in local currencies, across multiple eBay domains, for even greater visibility.

A couple of relative newcomers that I've been keeping my eye on are: jp_watch_mania and nice-watch-jpn. Observant readers may have noticed from my recent post in the ongoing thread about the re-sprayed 7A38-7140, they were one of the would-be profiteering re-sellers to jump on the bandwagon.

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

This ostensibly decent looking JDM titanium 7A38-7030 was listed on eBay earlier this morning, by Japanese profiteering cross-platform 'proxy' re-seller nice-watch-jpn, with a typical greedily marked-up Buy-it-Now price of $1300.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-SPEEDM ... 4853568527

7A38-7030-Titanium-DarkGreyFace-eBay-July2021-(re-seller)-Listing.png
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Note their minimal generic description, which is usually a good indicator that the watch is not in their possession.

It didn't take me very long to find their source. The exact same titanium 7A38-7030 is available direct (or via Buyee) from the original Japanese seller on Mercari, who is asking 79,800 Yen as a Buy-it-Now, equivalent to $722.50 USD !!! :o

https://www.mercari.com/jp/items/m36803345907/

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Note the significant difference in the above Google translation of the Mercari seller's description ! Caveat Emptor !!

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Jim's post moved to the appropriate profiteering thread

Post by jamesam »

Why do the profiteers bother having two listings for same watch with identical photos but different Buy-it-Now prices?

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:23 amjapan_pre-owned_vintage is now the pre-eminent 'proxy' Japanese re-seller of 7Axx's. Not content with just eBay.com, in parallel, they create duplicate listings, in local currencies, across multiple eBay domains, for even greater visibility.
Jim. As the listings you've posted relate to a Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-seller, I've moved your post to the appropriate thread. Unfortunately I hadn't gotten around to completing my original post, so I've tweaked my quote. ;)
No great surprise, the 7A28-7100 SAY091 Speedmaster is being listed by none other than japan_pre-owned_vintage. :roll:

I've just run a quick worldwide search and found 7 listings by them for this particular 7A28-7100.

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Seiko-Speed-Mas ... 4704351761 - eBay France, asking 1309.28 Euros.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Seiko-Speed-Mas ... 4585272379 - eBay Germany, asking 1309.28 Euros.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Seiko-Speed-Mas ... 4435158212 - eBay Italy, asking 1309.28 Euros.
https://www.ebay.es/itm/Seiko-Speed-Mas ... 4435158249 - eBay Spain, asking 1309.28 Euros.
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Seiko-Speed-Mas ... 4585272865 - eBay Ireland, asking £1,128.10 (should be Euros). :lol:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Seiko-Speed ... 4435158001 - eBay Australia, asking $2116.93 Au.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-Speed-Ma ... 4434852776 - eBay.com (USA) asking $1451.00 US

As you didn't post any links, I'm guessing the one that shows as $1230 may have been converted from another currency.
Besides that one, they're also listing another 7A28-7100 (also 7 times across various eBay domains).
Here's just the eBay.com link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-Speed-Ma ... 4721988184

Both those 7A28-7100's are available direct from the Japanese sellers on Mercari (or via Buyee).

7A28-7100-Mercari-July2021-Summary-x3.png
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But if you want to get an idea of recent auction selling prices on Yahoo Japan, check out this closed search result.

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Not sure why you deleted the post you wrote in reply yesterday evening, Jim, but I'd posit that $221 is rather too much to put down to currency fluctuations. It took me another worldwide eBay search to find the reason for the discrepancy.
Prolific japan_pre-owned_vintage is not the only would-be profiteering Japanese eBay 'proxy' re-seller who's listing it.

One of the longer-established Japanese eBay 'proxy' re-sellers, ys-variety is asking $1323.31.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SEIKO-7A28-710 ... 5113129471

Another oddly named would-be profiteer, japanese_mountain_stream, is asking $1301.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-Speedmas ... 2821501867

Surprisingly, it's comparative newcomer nice-watch-jpn who has it listed for 'only' (I jest) - $1230 US.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SEIKO-SPEEDMAS ... 4857730286

So the same watch is being listed a total of 10 times by 4 various Japanese eBay re-sellers who don't actually own it ! :o
jamesam wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:20 pmWhy do the profiteers bother having two listings for same watch with identical photos but different Buy-it-Now prices?
Apart from not posting any links (which wasted my time needlessly), your question now appears to suggest confusion on your part. Yes, japan_pre-owned_vintage does have multiple eBay listings (on different domains and currencies), but the apparent discrepancy between Buy-it-Now prices of $1451 and $1230 is due to it being two different re-sellers.

Regarding your 'identical photos', I suggest you look again at your screenshots. Yes, of course it's the same 7A28-7100, but nice-watch-jpn is using a different primary image in his eBay listing to everyone else. It's a slightly closer head-on view - naturally 'stolen' from the same Mercari listing, where it's the second photo.

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by jamesam »

I deleted my post because I no longer needed anyone to respond.

I reasoned on my own that when the multiple listings were the same seller, the price discrepancy based on exchange rates would be fairly small. But if the price discrepancy was larger it probably was a different person acting as a “proxy” re-seller who was just marking up the price some more.

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:35 am This ostensibly decent looking JDM titanium 7A38-7030 was listed on eBay earlier this morning, by Japanese profiteering cross-platform 'proxy' re-seller nice-watch-jpn, with a typical greedily marked-up Buy-it-Now price of $1300.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-SPEEDM ... 4853568527

Note their minimal generic description, which is usually a good indicator that the watch is not in their possession.

It didn't take me very long to find their source. The exact same titanium 7A38-7030 is available direct (or via Buyee) from the original Japanese seller on Mercari, who is asking 79,800 Yen as a Buy-it-Now, equivalent to $722.50 USD !!!

https://www.mercari.com/jp/items/m36803345907/

Note the significant difference in the above Google translation of the Mercari seller's description ! Caveat Emptor !!
Checking my eBay watching page, I noticed that would-be profiteering Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' reseller nice-watch-jpn had ended their listing in the early hours of this morning:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174853568527

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Thankfully it wasn't them who sold it, but the original bona fide Japanese Mercari seller.

https://www.mercari.com/jp/items/m36803345907/

7A38-7030-Titanium-DarkGreyFace-Mercari.jp-July2021-Sold-69700Yen.jpg
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Note the reduced selling price of 69,700 Yen (compared to asking the price in my earlier screenshot of 79,800 Yen). Given the prices that titanium 7A38-7030's sometimes achieve, that might sound like a comparative bargain, but remember, it was described as faulty - a small detail omitted by the would-be Japanese eBay 'proxy' re-seller. :roll:

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

I had to chuckle to myself when I saw this yesterday evening. :lol: A bit late to the party, one of the longer established 'proxy' re-sellers ys-variety finally decided to take a stab at listing the re-sprayed 7A38-7140 (subject of this thread). The reason I found it amusing is the primary image he's used - an old (ex-Instagram) wrist shot, which he's evidently stolen from an earlier version of the bona fide Yahoo Japan seller's multiple re-listings. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-7A38-7 ... 5245316311

7A38-7140-Black-YellowFace-eBay-July2021-(another-re-seller)-Listing.png
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His marked up Buy-it-Now asking price of $1141.99 is lower than those previously asked by japan_pre-owned_vintage and nice-watch-jpn, but then hapless YJ seller popstyle10 has reduced his listing back down to 'only' 85,000 Yen. :roll:

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m506177254

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Here's a new listing for a JDM Seiko 7A38, by another somewhat inappropriately named Japanese eBay 'proxy' re-seller, japan_awesome_deal_kens which may possibly catch out an unwary punter, because with a Buy-it-Now price of 'only' $680, it's rather cheaper than most you'll see - as indeed is this would-be profiteering re-seller's mark-up percentage.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OH-Seiko-Spe ... 4561665111

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However, it's not quite the 'awesome deal' that Ken would have you believe. The same well-worn JDM 7A38-6030, fitted with a NATO strap, was listed on Yahoo Japan auctions two weeks ago (on Thursday 22nd July, as shown by the watch).
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember when the bona fide Japanese seller first listed it, that the price was possibly 10K Yen higher, but they re-listed it yesterday, as a 2-day auction (now with only 3 hours remaining) with an opening bid price of 49,800 Yen, equivalent to approx. $450 USD.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/566946959

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Don't be deceived by 'Ken's better than average (Japanese) command of English, especially their treacherously worded series of phrases in the description beginning 'We', implying that the watch is in their possession. If you compare the 10 watches that they're currently listing on eBay, with those listed by the Yahoo Japan seller nakatsubo0120, the only one in common is this 7A38-6030. Needless to say, just like all the other Japanese eBay 'proxy' re-sellers, 'Ken's is using the bona fide YJ seller's set of 10 photos, stolen from their listing, but has uploaded them to their eBay listing in a different order, using the YJ seller's seventh photo as their primary image, possibly in a further attempt to confuse punters.

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by jamesam »

This guy - stardestroyer2012, saw me on another forum today and emailed me links to 7 of his watch listings on eBay, including two listings using the same 7A38-7140 photos below. And all he wants is $2,161 USD for the watch. It's a steal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334106424198 and https://www.ebay.com/itm/334106424203


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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Another chancer. :roll: I wonder what exchange rate / mark-up percentage he's using. For that matter, what Yahoo Japan price is he basing it on ? It was briefly @ 80K Yen last week; then 150K Yen at the weekend and back to 100K Yen today. Whichever, his $2161.69, however he arrived at that figure, is completely ridiculous, even by the YJ seller's standards. At today's exchange rate it equates to 238,800 Yen. :lol:

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by jamesam »

Do you have one of these?
The seller emailed one time with links to a bunch of junk he was selling, so he seemed dodgy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174829038114

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Jim. I've moved your post from where you'd posted it in the My burgeoning BreitBling HFA 7T32 collection thread.
To answer your question. No I don't. Whereas that RACER is admittedly an attractive 'Panda' design, I limit my 7T32 collection by sticking solely to just the BreitBling Orient / Racer HFA clones, with their distinctive quarter markers.

The reason I've moved your post to this thread, is to point out that you clearly need to pay more attention to eBay ID's.
The Japanese eBay seller nice-watch-jpn is indeed dodgy. Not only have I previously mentioned him in this thread ....
Seiko7A38 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:23 amA couple of relative newcomers that I've been keeping my eye on are: jp_watch_mania and nice-watch-jpn. Observant readers may have noticed from my recent post in the ongoing thread about the re-sprayed 7A38-7140, they were one of the would-be profiteering re-sellers to jump on the bandwagon.
But others besides. He is another of these 'johnny come lately' would-be profiteering cross platform 'proxy' re-sellers. :!:

Orient and Racer HFA's, common-or-garden Seiko 7T32's and a great variety of other re-branded variants regularly crop up on Yahoo Japan auctions, but sometimes, as I wrote earlier, you have to search elsewhere for the re-seller's source:
Seiko7A38 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:23 amThe preferred domestic sales platform for selling secondhand watches is, without doubt, Yahoo Japan Auctions, although there are other options. which allow fixed price listings, like Rakuten and Mercari (of more anon). ;)
This Racer HFA044-70, which profiteering Japanese eBay 'proxy' reseller nice-watch-jpn would have mug punters with more money than sense, pay $120 for is currently listed on Rakuten asking 4800 Yen. I'll let you do the math. :roll:

Racer-Orient-7T32-HFA044-70-Rakuten-August2021-Listing.jpg
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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by jamesam »

The math said the Racer HFA044-70 on Rakuten, listed for 4800 Yen would be $44 USD, with Buyee estimating their additional charge to handle and ship at $46. Because the eBay price also covers shipping, paying $80 complete on eBay seemed equivalent, and that offer was accepted (after rejecting my previous offer of $70). The photos are unfocused and a bit fuzzy, so now I wait to see its actual condition and hope for the best. It's just something cheap for everyday fun wear instead of my Citizen, “$65 new on Amazon” watch.

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Jim. I'm not sure how you arrived at an additional estimated $46 for using the Buyee service, but it certainly does add to the initial ex-Japan platform cost. I suspect it may have been due to the packaging / shipping options selected. I've never actually used it on Rakuten myself, but on Yahoo Japan, as soon as you make the purchase, Buyee automatically adds 1000 Yen to the price. That's made up of: Standard Plan (¥500) Buyee Service (¥300) and Payment Fee (¥200).

Once your item has arrived in Buyee's warehouse, you'll need to choose packaging and shipping options. Their 'deluxe' packaging consists of some bubble-wrap and a couple of 'airbags' in a much larger than necessary outer cardboard box. I've used it once, but haven't since. Their default shipping option is EMS (which generally takes 3 days). Nowadays, for low value items, I always change that to (standard) Air Mail, which is Japan Post's e-packet service, which is tracked; sometimes takes less than a week and costs 890 Yen. So my incoming ex-Yahoo Japan Orient HFA701-70 'JUNK' ....

Orient-HFA701-70-7T32-Stainless-BlueFace-YahooJapan-August2021-Ended-Buyee.png
Orient-HFA701-70-7T32-Stainless-BlueFace-YahooJapan-August2021-Ended-Buyee.png (75.8 KiB) Viewed 476 times

will actually end up costing me a total of 5070 Yen (approx. $46), compared to the 2970 Yen (approx. $27) 'won' price - an additional $19, compared to your Buyee estimate of $46 on a 4800 Yen watch. Speaking of which, this morning I happened to check the Racer HFA044-70 on Rakuten. At the time of writing, it's still not showing as 'sold' there. :?

Racer-Orient-7T32-HFA044-70-Rakuten-August2021-Listing-UnsoldAsYet.jpg
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Assuming you've already paid 'proxy' re-seller nice-watch-jpn, he needs to pull his finger out ! :lol:

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:44 am I had to chuckle to myself when I saw this yesterday evening. :lol: A bit late to the party, one of the longer established 'proxy' re-sellers ys-variety finally decided to take a stab at listing the re-sprayed 7A38-7140 (subject of this thread). The reason I found it amusing is the primary image he's used - an old (ex-Instagram) wrist shot, which he's evidently stolen from an earlier version of the bona fide Yahoo Japan seller's multiple re-listings. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-7A38-7 ... 5245316311
Earlier this morning, yet another would-be profiteering Japanese cross-platform 'proxy' re-seller naotoshop decided it was about time they climbed on the re-sprayed 7A38-7140 bandwagon. This one's asking $1249 as a Buy-it-Now. :roll:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-Chronogr ... 3623501439

rsz_7a38-7140-black-yellowface-ebay-august2021-andanother-re-seller-listing.png
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The irony is that hapless bona fide YJ seller popstyle10 has currently ended his re-listing (again) at the moment ! :lol:

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Re: Beware of Japanese eBay cross-platform 'proxy' re-sellers !

Post by jamesam »

I think the 2 different platforms I tested had estimator tools that chose DHL to ship as a default to the USA for $40+ and I didn’t try to research cheaper options. I just did it a different way on Buyee and EMS to USA or EK shows about $24 compared to DHL $40+.
Honestly, I just blindly assumed the shipping for eBay was no more than $30, which is why my first offer for the $45 watch was only $70, but rejected. At $80, he/she got his $45 asking plus maybe an extra $10 on the shipping, which doesn’t bother me.

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