Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

The place to comment on auctions or question authenticity.
User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:29 amNot wishing to be accused of stating the bleedin' obvious (I am), this well-worn 7A38-7080, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet was listed earlier this morning by a US eBay seller as a 5-day auction. The fact that the bracelet is completely wrong should be immediately apparent to all but the visually impaired. The only reason I'm bothering to mention, is it looked rather familiar, hence I was somewhat intrigued by it.

Note the seller incorrectly states the lug width as being 19mm in the item specifics (when it's actually 20mm). Studying his photos, the bracelet end fixing tubes appear to be an 18mm fitment. The curved section links, with four gold plated ornament bars per side, looks very similar to the Seiko p/n B1127C bracelet, sometimes seen fitted as an alternative on the 7A38-7180 SAA055J, as discussed at length in this thread. If it is indeed a B1127C, it's been fitted with replacement clasp. I don't recognise the logo. The seller states in his description: 'I am the sole owner of this watch', yet makes no mention of the bracelet. Hopefully the risibly over-optimistic opening bid price of $750, plus the potential addition of nearly another $200 in GSP charges, should be enough to deter even the most foolhardy bidder.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-Quartz ... 4378220533

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-Listing.png
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-Listing.png (239.35 KiB) Viewed 13593 times
Checking my eBay watching page, I see that after half a dozen more re-listings and reductions in the opening bid price from the original ludicrous $750 to $390, that well-worn 7A38-7080, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet, eventually sold this morning for an undisclosed best offer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294468931680

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-(re-listed)-Sold-BestOffer.png
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-(re-listed)-Sold-BestOffer.png (54.25 KiB) Viewed 13593 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:47 amBut this one deserves a mention, if not a special award, for the most hideous non-original replacement bracelet fitted to a 7A38. This well-worn stainless 7A38-7280, fitted with what has to be one of the fugliest aftermarket replacement bracelets I've ever seen, was listed by an ironically named Romanian eBay seller vintagestyle2018 earlier this morning. Given their choice of bracelet, they clearly have absolutely have no sense of style themselves. :lol: That said, given the comparatively low-ish Buy-it-Now asking price of 250 Euros and the option to make an offer, I'm sure it will be quickly snapped up by a less discerning / novice buyer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4194470517

7A38-7280-Stainless-WhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-Listing.png
7A38-7280-Stainless-WhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-Listing.png (169.23 KiB) Viewed 13575 times
Despite my salutary warnings and sarcastic comments, it's often just a matter of time before a less discerning / novice buyer / mug punter comes along. Sure as eggs is eggs. :roll: That well-worn stainless 7A38-7280, fitted with an absolutely hideous non-original aftermarket replacement bracelet sold yesterday for the reduced Buy-it-Now price of 220 Euros.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144194470517

7A38-7280-Stainless-WhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-Ended-Sold-220Euros.png
7A38-7280-Stainless-WhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-Ended-Sold-220Euros.png (46.62 KiB) Viewed 13572 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:41 amWhereas I've long been aware of his re-selling activities, lately profiteering German eBay seller m.a.k.2979 has started coming up on my radar - for other wrong reasons. Late yesterday evening, he listed a stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with a non-original replacement Seiko bracelet. There's no mention of it in his description other than being 'in very good clean condition' and it's been 'disinfected'. The bracelet is a Seiko p/n C138, normally found on the H357-507A Ana-Digi. I am 100% certain that the seller is aware of this, because if you check his other items, not only is he also listing a number of Seiko LCD watches, but also other similar used bracelets removed from them. A clear case of deception by omission. :!:

Apart from being fitted with the wrong bracelet, at 435 Euros the watch is grossly over-priced for the condition. The seller discloses in his description that it is suffering from a recalcitrant sweep second hand. The lume of the hour and minute hands and most of the hour batons is degraded, indicating previous moisture ingress. There are also blotchy marks on the top RH quadrant of the dial. The case and bezel appear to have been re-finished rather amateurishly, resulting in rounding off and loss of definition.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4471556823

7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay(Germany)-Sept2021-Listing.png
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay(Germany)-Sept2021-Listing.png (117.95 KiB) Viewed 13569 times
When failing to sell over-priced and mis-represented offerings, a favourite tactic regularly used by devious eBay sellers, like m.a.k.2979, is to end their listings as item allegedly no longer available and immediately re-list them, so that they appear to be new listings. Yesterday evening, he did just that, re-listing 40 of his current batch of 45 listings, including three other 7A38's and this faulty stainless 7A38-7270 fitted with undisclosed non-original replacement Seiko bracelet.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284471556823

7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay(Germany)-Sept2021-Ended-NLA.png
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay(Germany)-Sept2021-Ended-NLA.png (36.54 KiB) Viewed 13568 times

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4504589413

7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay(Germany)-Oct2021-Re-Listing.png
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay(Germany)-Oct2021-Re-Listing.png (130.67 KiB) Viewed 13568 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

By rights, I shouldn't be posting this in this thread as the title is inappropriate in this instance, because this time the would-be profiteering eBay re-seller has made full disclosure. I'm just following up on an earlier sequence of posts ....
Seiko7A38 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:29 pmChecking my eBay watching page, I see that after half a dozen more re-listings and reductions in the opening bid price from the original ludicrous $750 to $390, that well-worn 7A38-7080, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet, eventually sold this morning for an undisclosed best offer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294468931680

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-(re-listed)-Sold-BestOffer.png
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Sept2021-(re-listed)-Sold-BestOffer.png (54.25 KiB) Viewed 13303 times
If, like me, you thought the original asking price was ridiculous, check out:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 5008692635

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg (212.25 KiB) Viewed 13301 times
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Description.png
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Description.png (12.06 KiB) Viewed 13301 times

Apart from the ludicrous $2000 Buy-it-Now price (plus potentially another $500 on top in GSP charges), the other reason I'm mentioning it, is that the re-seller's listing includes a few better photos of that unidentified non-original bracelet:

rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-2.jpg
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-2.jpg (243.32 KiB) Viewed 13299 times
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-5.jpg
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-5.jpg (216.45 KiB) Viewed 13299 times
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-6.jpg
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-6.jpg (216.9 KiB) Viewed 13299 times
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-7.jpg
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-7.jpg (243.84 KiB) Viewed 13299 times

That said, I'm still no closer to identifying it. :?

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

I make no apologies for what is in effect another 'off topic' post. :P Just to show, that despite his candid disclosure about the obviously non-original bracelet fitted to that 7A38-7080, what a complete and utter chancer the would-be profiteering US eBay re-seller meltzertrading is. Not only has he been sending out unsolicited supposedly 'discounted' offers of $1600 to anybody watching, but he's since also knocked 50% ($1000) off his ludicrous Buy-it-Now price ! :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 5008692635

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Listing-Revised.jpg
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Listing-Revised.jpg (222.02 KiB) Viewed 13291 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:13 am
Seiko7A38 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:28 pmThis 7A38-7070, fitted with an undisclosed non-original replacement Seiko bracelet, was listed earlier today, by the same Italian eBay seller senatore53 who also listed the 7A38-7010 Franken (which coincidentally also happens to be fitted with a non-original bracelet). He falsely describes it as being “Perfette condizioni” and 'Solo oggetti originali…!' which translates as Only original items…! - and neither of which are true.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4051432127

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-June2021-Listing.png
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-June2021-Listing.png (149.06 KiB) Viewed 13005 times
Devious Italian eBay seller senatore53 ended that listing for a 7A38-7070, fitted with a non-original replacement Seiko bracelet and clasp, on 11th September, as allegedly being lost or broken. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234051432127

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-June2021-Ended-LostBroken.png
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-June2021-Ended-LostBroken.png (40.98 KiB) Viewed 13005 times

It's back on eBay again, re-listed this morning exactly as before: same photos; same price. My previous comments apply

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4222946989

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Oct2021-Re-Listing.png
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Oct2021-Re-Listing.png (147.6 KiB) Viewed 13005 times
Checking my eBay watching page, I see that 7A38-7070, fitted with a non-original Seiko bracelet and incongruous clasp, deceptively described by the Italian seller as “Perfette condizioni”, eventually sold yesterday afternoon for a reduced Buy-it-Now price of 319 Euros.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234222946989

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Oct2021-(re-listed)-Ended-Sold-319Euros.png
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Oct2021-(re-listed)-Ended-Sold-319Euros.png (38.8 KiB) Viewed 13007 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Here's a very subtle incorrect replacement bracelet, fitted to a common-or-garden 7A38, which may very likely catch out an unwary buyer, because it almost 'looks right'. This two-tone 7A38-7060 was listed earlier this afternoon by profiteering German eBay re-seller m.a.k.2979, who I'm certain has already been cited for unethical activities elsewhere in this forum section. Indeed, he has his own dedicated albeit rather short thread.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4625072204

7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg (158.37 KiB) Viewed 11211 times
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-1.jpg
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-1.jpg (212.75 KiB) Viewed 11205 times
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-9.jpg
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-9.jpg (195.62 KiB) Viewed 11205 times
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-12.jpg
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-12.jpg (228.54 KiB) Viewed 11205 times

The first part of his English description includes the deliberately misleading sentence that I've underlined in red:

7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-Description.png
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-Description.png (43.91 KiB) Viewed 11204 times

The reason that bracelet (Seiko p/n G1032C) looks 'almost right' is because it's normally found on the similarly-cased two-tone 7A28-7020 SPR010J:

7A28-7020-SPR010-UhrForumde.jpg
7A28-7020-SPR010-UhrForumde.jpg (208.34 KiB) Viewed 11204 times

At the risk of repeating myself (by posting the same old wrist shot I used two days ago, in the 7A38 Franken thread) ....
Here's how the correct original fitment, Seiko p/n G1105C bracelet on a 7A38-7060 SAA016J should look:

rsz_p1690080-crop.jpg
rsz_p1690080-crop.jpg (244.59 KiB) Viewed 11202 times

Andrea80
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:02 am
Location: Bergamo, Italy

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Andrea80 »

I've been watching this watch just some hours ago and I thought there is something strange... At first I had the impression that the gold section it is a bit too wide... But at the end I concluded it's due to the colour and all is correct... But I wrong 😅
You have very impressive memory and knowledge... Many compliments 👏🏻

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Andrea80 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:41 pmAt first I had the impression that the gold section it is a bit too wide...
That being the obvious 'giveaway' to something being wrong. ;)

Certainly not the first time I've seen an incorrect replacement Seiko bracelet like this fitted to a two-tone 7A38-7060.
Check out the top of page 10 of the old forum's Yet another 7Axx on an undisclosed non-original bracelet ... thread. That one, which looked very similar, apart from the wrong style of clasp, was fitted with a Seiko p/n B1707C bracelet normally found on a 7T32-7B30.

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

This misleadingly described 7A38-7069, fitted with an fairly innocuous looking non-original replacement Seiko two-tone 'President' style bracelet, was listed at the weekend (on Friday evening, while I was 'otherwise preoccupied'), by a UK eBay seller, with a Buy-it-Now price of £175. It sold less than 24 hours later, for an undisclosed best offer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SEIK ... 5317398105

7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-Ended-Sold-BestOffer.png
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-Ended-Sold-BestOffer.png (51.07 KiB) Viewed 11137 times

Here's a few of the seller's 9 admittedly tempting photos:

7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-1.jpg
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-1.jpg (104.27 KiB) Viewed 11131 times
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-3.jpg
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-3.jpg (94.21 KiB) Viewed 11131 times
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-6.jpg
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-6.jpg (219.12 KiB) Viewed 11131 times
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-8.jpg
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-8.jpg (240.28 KiB) Viewed 11131 times
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-9.jpg
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-9.jpg (75.08 KiB) Viewed 11131 times

The seller's description contained a couple of blatant falsehoods:

7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-Description.png
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-Description.png (51.54 KiB) Viewed 11137 times

In the last photo I've uploaded, the 'ears' of the bracelet's pressed end pieces (whose curvature doesn't match the 7A38's lug profile) appear to be stamped B13 75.E. I haven't identified it precisely, but I suspect the bracelet is probably off a Seiko 5 'auto', possibly a 7009 or 7S26 dressy model variant. FWIW (too late for the buyer, unfortunately), here's what the correct original Seiko p/n Z1162C bracelet on a 7A38-7069 looks like (it also has a gold-plated 7-hole SQ clasp):

rsz_p1690087-crop.jpg
rsz_p1690087-crop.jpg (245.11 KiB) Viewed 11123 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Anybody following this thread has probably realized that I don't cite every 7Axx fitted with an incorrect bracelet that I see. There simply aren't enough hours in a week, so I'll occasionally refrain from passing comment on those which are blatantly obvious. As I was 'out of the office' at the weekend, I hadn't previously bothered with this one, but thinking about it this morning, it's since dawned on me that I'd never seen this one done before.

This 7A38-7070, which incidentally has other issues besides, fitted with a non-original, but rather familiar looking Seiko bracelet, was listed on Saturday evening, by a UK eBay seller, as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of £6.99. Bidding has currently stalled at £100.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/seiko-chrono ... 4408282145

7A38-7070-((Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Feb2022-Listing-.jpg
7A38-7070-((Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Feb2022-Listing-.jpg (170.52 KiB) Viewed 11116 times
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-feb2022-1.jpg
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-feb2022-1.jpg (241.32 KiB) Viewed 11114 times
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-feb2022-4.jpg
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-feb2022-4.jpg (239.27 KiB) Viewed 11114 times
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-feb2022-7.jpg
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-feb2022-7.jpg (245.08 KiB) Viewed 11114 times

The seller's description makes no mention of the bracelet, other than its overall length:

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Feb2022-Description.png
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Feb2022-Description.png (17.19 KiB) Viewed 11116 times

The silver anodised finish and width of the last bracelet joining link match the case nicely - and I suspect those factors may likely catch out an unwary bidder. However the distinctive bracelet link design immediately points to where this particular bracelet is normally found: on the 7A28-707A SPR027J; 7A28-7070 SPR029J and 7A28-7079 SPR037J.

I've previously been harshly critical of the Springbar.com's 7A28 article (which still contains a number of errors), but for lack of a quicker, convenient point of reference, see: thespringbar.com/guides/seiko-7a28-collectors-guide/#7A28-7070
Although their guide doesn't actually mention the bracelet, it includes 'borrowed' photos of all three stainless variants.

What's unusual about the Seiko p/n Z1047S bracelet is that it's attached to the 7A28-707x (where it's normally found), using pin and tube fixing (through cast drilled central lugs on the watch case). Of course, the 7A38-7070's boxed lug setup uses a conventional 20mm double ended spring bar fixing. Hence the reason for the incongruous gaps in the middle of the bracelet fixing tubes and the daylight you can see on the right of the seller's last case-back photo.

In case anybody needed a reminder of how the correct original Seiko p/n B1241S bracelet on a 7A38-7070 looks like:

rsz_p1730089-crop.jpg
rsz_p1730089-crop.jpg (242.4 KiB) Viewed 11090 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

I don't always remember to update these threads with their auction sales results, so before I move on to my next post, that 7A38-7070 fitted with the wrong bracelet (off a 7A28-7070 / -707A, etc.) sold last weekend for £181.99 after bids.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234408282145

7A38-7070-((Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Feb2022-Ended-Sold-181.99.png
7A38-7070-((Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Feb2022-Ended-Sold-181.99.png (48.92 KiB) Viewed 11012 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Here's another 7A38-7069, fitted with a rather more obvious non-original generic two-tone replacement bracelet, which was listed by a James Bond keyword-spamming US eBay seller in the early hours of this morning. According to him, this is the 'GT' version too. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1986-SEIKO-7 ... 5558047133

7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-Another-Listing.jpg
7A38-7069-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-eBay-WrongBracelet-Feb2022-Another-Listing.jpg (192.36 KiB) Viewed 11001 times
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-2.jpg
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-2.jpg (245.09 KiB) Viewed 11006 times
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-3.jpg
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-3.jpg (244.91 KiB) Viewed 11006 times
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-4.jpg
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-4.jpg (242.73 KiB) Viewed 11006 times
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-5.jpg
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-5.jpg (245.01 KiB) Viewed 11006 times
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-9.jpg
rsz_7a38-7069-stainless-gold-silverface-ebay-wrongbracelet-feb2022-another-9.jpg (244.8 KiB) Viewed 11006 times

They may be intended for a 20mm lug width, but note how badly the bracelet end pieces (don't) fit, in both his head-on and side views. They're completely the wrong section. Although I haven't bothered uploading the photos, I suspect the accessories, including the box, have been cobbled together from other sources, to give the impression of it being a full set. The instruction manual is for a 7T32 and the warranty card is made out for a SNA134 (which is a 7T62 sales code). Oh - and check out the nastily butchered case-back. :cry:

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:20 pm Here's a very subtle incorrect replacement bracelet, fitted to a common-or-garden 7A38, which may very likely catch out an unwary buyer, because it almost 'looks right'. This two-tone 7A38-7060 was listed earlier this afternoon by profiteering German eBay re-seller m.a.k.2979, who I'm certain has already been cited for unethical activities elsewhere in this forum section. Indeed, he has his own dedicated albeit rather short thread.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4625072204

7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg
7A38-7060-Stainless+Gold-SilverFace-WrongBracelet eBay(Germany)-Jan2022-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg (158.37 KiB) Viewed 10894 times
If I'm not mistaken, that same two-tone 7A38-7060, fitted with an incorrect (p/n G1032C) bracelet rightfully belonging to a two-tone 7A28-7020 rocked up on Instagram at the weekend. The new owner seems oblivious.

Image

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:07 am By rights, I shouldn't be posting this in this thread as the title is inappropriate in this instance, because this time the would-be profiteering eBay re-seller has made full disclosure. I'm just following up on an earlier sequence of posts ....

If, like me, you thought the original asking price was ridiculous, check out:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 5008692635

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg (212.25 KiB) Viewed 10768 times
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Description.png
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Description.png (12.06 KiB) Viewed 10767 times

Apart from the ludicrous $2000 Buy-it-Now price (plus potentially another $500 on top in GSP charges), the other reason I'm mentioning it, is that the re-seller's listing includes a few better photos of that unidentified non-original bracelet:

rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-7.jpg
rsz_7a38-7080-divers-black-wrongbracelet-ebay-nov2021-re-seller-7.jpg (243.84 KiB) Viewed 10768 times

That said, I'm still no closer to identifying it. :?
Never let it be said that I don't follow up on earlier posts. :P

Purely by chance, a NOS example of that unidentified ill-fitting black chrome bracelet came up in one of my eBay saved search notifications overnight. That newest listing led me to discover that the US eBay seller was listing a few of them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Speidel-Vint ... 3949321772

Spiedel-11mm-Black+Gold-Bracelet-eBay-March2022-Listing.jpg
Spiedel-11mm-Black+Gold-Bracelet-eBay-March2022-Listing.jpg (152.78 KiB) Viewed 10764 times
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-1.jpg
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-1.jpg (245.1 KiB) Viewed 10764 times
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-2.jpg
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-2.jpg (238.04 KiB) Viewed 10764 times
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-3.jpg
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-3.jpg (241.42 KiB) Viewed 10764 times
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-4.jpg
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-4.jpg (240.85 KiB) Viewed 10764 times
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-5.jpg
rsz_spiedel-11mm-black-gold-bracelet-ebay-march2022-5.jpg (238.99 KiB) Viewed 10764 times

No real excuse for not recognising the stylized S clasp logo, other than I'm more familiar with the Speidel script. :oops:
As I wrote earlier, the US seller is listing a few of these, with slight variations in the title - a couple of them include the word 'Ladies'. That and the 11mm lug width explain both why it's such a poor fit on the 7A38-7080 (20mm lug width) and so short - as indeed described by the re-seller meltzertrading / millauctionhouse.

Incidentally that 7A38-7080 fitted with the short Speidel bracelet, was the first 7A38 that I saw listed by this would-be profiteering re-seller, in the first week of November last year. Not surprisingly, it still remains unsold. It's been re-listed a few times since, most recently on 18th March. The Buy-it-Now price is currently $500, supposedly discounted by 50% from $1000. Yeah right. :lol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 5346434524

7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Re-Listing.jpg
7A38-7080-(Divers)-Black-WrongBracelet-eBay-Nov2021-(Re-seller)-Re-Listing.jpg (214.82 KiB) Viewed 10759 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Subtitled: Lost in translation.

This stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with the wrong Seiko p/n B1405S bracelet, normally found on the stainless 7A38-7190 was listed earlier this morning by French eBay seller martial_auvergne as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of 299 Euros. This person is a long-term Seiko collector, with a particular interest in 7Axx's, as witnessed by previous eBay sales and his Instagram account martialrynd. He also appears to have a good command of English, which points to the wording of his English description being deliberately deceptive, as explained below.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-7A38-7270/325130192636

7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-Listing.jpg
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-Listing.jpg (170.64 KiB) Viewed 10749 times
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-4.jpg
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-4.jpg (197.18 KiB) Viewed 10749 times
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-7.jpg
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-7.jpg (180.23 KiB) Viewed 10749 times
rsz_7a38-7270-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-april2022-8.jpg
rsz_7a38-7270-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-april2022-8.jpg (244.11 KiB) Viewed 10741 times
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-Description.png
7A38-7270-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-Description.png (15.4 KiB) Viewed 10749 times

His French description, which I've underlined in red translates as: Seiko B1405 Bracelet perfectly adapted to this model.
Which of course it would, because the stainless 7A38-7190 and 7A38-7270 share the same watch case with 18mm lug fitting. His English translation merely reads: "Original B1405 bracelet", which isn't quite the same thing, is it ? I suspect the case has been re-brushed and the bezel has obviously been over-polished. If you're wondering why the watch doesn't look quite right (apart from the wrong bracelet), the replacement crystal appears to have been fitted using a clear nylon crystal gasket (as used on the 7A38-7190) instead of the black nylon one used on the 7A38-7270. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know what the correct Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet on a stainless 7A38-7270 looks like, here's a very old photo of one of mine (in fact, 'my original').

rsz_7a38-7270-stainless-blackface-mineoriginal-p1030191.jpg
rsz_7a38-7270-stainless-blackface-mineoriginal-p1030191.jpg (242.39 KiB) Viewed 10737 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

This 7A38-7070 in average worn condition, fitted with an (as yet) unidentified non-original replacement Seiko bracelet was listed earlier this afternoon by devious profiteering UK eBay re-seller beautique_timepieces, using his now familiar fake fern settings, with a typical greedy Buy-it-Now price of £329.99.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Seik ... 3921304099

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-(Re-seller)-Listing.jpg (175.65 KiB) Viewed 10611 times
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-april2022-re-seller-1.jpg
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-april2022-re-seller-1.jpg (244.59 KiB) Viewed 10611 times
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-april2022-re-seller-7.jpg
rsz_7a38-7070-divers-stainless-blackface-wrongbracelet-ebay-april2022-re-seller-7.jpg (242.54 KiB) Viewed 10611 times
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-(Re-seller)-Description.png
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-(Re-seller)-Description.png (12.75 KiB) Viewed 10611 times

There's no mention of the bracelet, other than the wrist size it will fit. Amusing the seller has declined to upload a photo of the case-back (let alone one with the serial number exposed). No matter, I remember seeing the exact same 7A38-7070, fitted with the same incorrect bracelet, listed by another UK eBay seller last July. Funnily enough, around the same time that beautique_timepieces purchased another 7A38-7070 (subject of a separate thread).

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2021-2.jpg
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2021-2.jpg (201.02 KiB) Viewed 10608 times
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2021-6.jpg
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2021-6.jpg (194.84 KiB) Viewed 10608 times
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2021-8.jpg
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2021-8.jpg (225.04 KiB) Viewed 10608 times

The serial number is 466478. :P Why didn't I post it in this thread when it was listed by the previous seller last July ? :? I suspect because he probably openly declared the non-original bracelet in his description. ;)

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Predictably ended in their habitual manner about 15 minutes ago. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203921304099

7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-(Re-seller)-Ended-NLA.png
7A38-7070-(Divers)-Stainless-BlackFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-April2022-(Re-seller)-Ended-NLA.png (50.86 KiB) Viewed 10585 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

This 7A38-727B masquerading as a 7A38-7060 was listed yesterday evening by a Moroccan eBay seller as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $99.50, which I fear is likely to tempt a few bidders. Apart from being fitted with a similar appearing non-original replacement Seiko bracelet; the wrong case-back off a two-tone 7A38-7060, the watch has other issues besides: bent SEIKO dial logo, bent constant seconds sub-dial hand and tip is broken off the non-original sweep second hand. Misaligned Tachymeter ring too. All signs that it's been messed about with by an incompetent botcher.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Quar ... 4145075873

7A38-727B-Stainless-OffWhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2022-Listing.jpg
7A38-727B-Stainless-OffWhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2022-Listing.jpg (163.35 KiB) Viewed 10094 times
7A38-727B-Stainless-OffWhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2022-1.jpg
7A38-727B-Stainless-OffWhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2022-1.jpg (92.08 KiB) Viewed 10094 times
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-2.jpg
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-2.jpg (242.48 KiB) Viewed 10094 times
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-3.jpg
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-3.jpg (215.46 KiB) Viewed 10094 times
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-6.jpg
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-6.jpg (229.43 KiB) Viewed 10094 times
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-7.jpg
rsz_7a38-727b-stainless-offwhiteface-wrongbracelet-ebay-july2022-7.jpg (241.25 KiB) Viewed 10084 times
7A38-727B-Stainless-OffWhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2022-Description.png
7A38-727B-Stainless-OffWhiteFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-July2022-Description.png (25.85 KiB) Viewed 10094 times

Although, at first glance, it looks very similar to the correct original Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet, the p/n C182 fitted, which is normally found on an A547-5050 digital differs in a couple of aspects: It has a 7-hole adjustment SQ clasp (versus 5-hole) and the removable adjustment links are retained in a different manner (by split pins, rather than plates). Still, with the other issues, I guess that'll be a minor consideration for whoever's foolhardy enough to buy it. FWIW, here's a recent wrist shot of one of my 7A38-727B SAA149J's;

rsz_p1830052-crop.jpg
rsz_p1830052-crop.jpg (243.19 KiB) Viewed 10082 times

User avatar
Seiko7A38
Site Admin
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Location: S.W. England
Contact:

Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

With so many Seiko 7Axx's fitted with non-original bracelets listed on eBay nowadays, I probably wouldn't have bothered mentioning this fairly obvious example. But this Indian eBay seller's listing is borderline fraudulent on so many counts. Not only is this well-worn two-tone 7A38-7020 fitted with an unidentified non-original bracelet (which looks like it's fitted with a Stelux Seiko logo'd clasp), but the bezel has been stripped of its gold plating and amateurishly polished. Which in anybody's book, makes it far from Authentic / All Original or Mint ! The whole thing is a bit of a polished turd - for which the seller is asking a risible $551 ! :o Perhaps the seller should consider changing his misnomer eBay user ID from watchmakermintycondition to tiredturdpolisher. :lol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTHENTIC-SE ... 5734567099

7A38-7020-Stainless+Gold-GreyFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Jan2023-Listing.jpg
7A38-7020-Stainless+Gold-GreyFace-WrongBracelet-eBay-Jan2023-Listing.jpg (213.12 KiB) Viewed 2623 times
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-2.jpg
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-2.jpg (244.35 KiB) Viewed 2623 times
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-4.jpg
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-4.jpg (244.75 KiB) Viewed 2623 times
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-14.jpg
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-14.jpg (244.85 KiB) Viewed 2623 times
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-15.jpg
rsz_7a38-7020-stainless-gold-greyface-wrongbracelet-ebay-jan2023-15.jpg (244.89 KiB) Viewed 2623 times

I've only bothered uploading 4 of the seller's 15 photos (which include no less than 9 very similar wrist shots). For those novices who don't know what the correct Seiko p/n B1171C bracelet on a two-tone 7A38-7020 SAA010J looks like, here's an old wrist shot of one of my genuinely mint examples:

rsz_p1810080-crop.jpg
rsz_p1810080-crop.jpg (243.28 KiB) Viewed 2623 times

Post Reply