Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

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Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Lately it seems that every man and his dog is out to make a fast buck selling Seiko 7A38's on eBay. One of the problems they're likely to encounter is the watch is missing its original bracelet. Seiko's folded-link construction bracelets from the 1980's are notoriously prone to stretching and failure, if not treated carefully. Most often it's the small 'U' section interconnecting pieces between the main links which let go. Some people sell them as a 'head only'. Some fit leather straps (which generally don't work well with hooded lugs). Others look for a suitable similar appearing bracelet (not always necessarily the correct lug fitting). Some more forthright eBay sellers disclose in their descriptions that such fitments aren't original. Then you have the dishonest kind. The classic deceit is to call it 'original bracelet'. It may in some cases, indeed be an original Seiko bracelet; just not correct or original to the recipient watch it's fitted it to !

Readers may recall a similarly titled thread in the eBay section of the old forum, which ran to 11 pages over 9 years:
Yet another 7Axx on an undisclosed non-original bracelet ....


I must admit, although I started out with my usual fervent enthusiasm, instances became so commonplace that towards the final years of the old forum, I didn't bother slating some of the more obvious examples of wilful misrepresentation. Seeing this deceptively described well-worn two-tone 7A38-7190, fitted with a non-original Seiko replacement bracelet, listed by an Italian eBay seller earlier this afternoon, raised my hackles enough to re-visit this thorny perennial subject.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-vintag ... 5178790011

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The manner in which he's posted the description, in an almost illegible light grey font, beggars belief ! :o

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However, if you strain your eyes hard enough, the 6th line down falsely claims: 'Bracciale originale'.

I'm struggling at the moment to find a wrist shot of my own two-tone 7A38-7190 SAA054J, so here's an appropriately angled photo of an example fitted with the correct original Seiko p/n B1412C bracelet, which sold on eBay recently:

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:07 pmThen you have the dishonest kind. The classic deceit is to call it 'original bracelet'.

I must admit, although I started out with my usual fervent enthusiasm, instances became so commonplace that towards the final years of the old forum, I didn't bother slating some of the more obvious examples of wilful misrepresentation.
Whereas this next example can't be classed as wilful misrepresentation; it's more what I'd call deception by omission. Unfortunately it's equally common practice among unethical eBay sellers. In fact, I'd seen this same seller pull a very similar stunt with a non-working two-tone 7A38-7060, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet, back in April.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4676314435

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Apart from the fact I was busy writing other topics at the time, I decided the comparatively low selling price wasn't worth mentioning and let it slide. But when eBay sellers are asking 400 Euros for more sought-after models, like this, something needs to be said. This well-worn stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet was listed earlier this morning by another of the regular band of profiteering German eBay sellers - tamers-timepieces.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4760242003

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The 'strap', viz: incorrect replacement bracelet, is of course the ubiquitous Seiko p/n Z1357S which doesn't particularly suit or fit the 7A38-702x watch case well at the best of times. Looks like some botcher has had a go at the connecting link on the 12 o'clock side with a pair of pliers, in a failed effort to pull it in closer. :roll:

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Knowing how popular these are (regardless of condition), I wasn't surprised to see that well-worn stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original p/n Z1357S bracelet, had already been sold yesterday evening for an undisclosed best offer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124760242003

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

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This 7A38-7070, fitted with an undisclosed non-original replacement Seiko bracelet, was listed earlier today, by the same Italian eBay seller senatore53 who also listed the 7A38-7010 Franken (which coincidentally also happens to be fitted with a non-original bracelet). He falsely describes it as being “Perfette condizioni” and 'Solo oggetti originali…!' which translates as Only original items…! - and neither of which are true.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4051432127

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His first 3 photos, which might have shown the bracelet more clearly, are badly out of focus (possibly deliberately), but the last two reveal it's actually a Seiko p/n B1075S (normally found on the 7A28-7040 / -7049), rather than the correct p/n B1241S. It's also fitted with a strange fold-over clasp (similar to the style used on the titanium 7A28-7080), rather than the correct 7-hole adjustment SQ clasp. Clearly someone who has no qualms about passing off his dross as genuine.

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

I'm sick and tired (and no doubt wasting my breath) of bitching about speculative over-pricing, particularly by greedy Italian eBay sellers. But it makes me see red when they chuck an undisclosed non-original bracelet into the 'bargain'. :x This certainly not 'VERY RARE', but common-or-garden stainless 7A38-7270 was listed by one such in the early hours of this morning, as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of 450 Euros !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-SE ... 4094727843

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When I first glanced at the listing photos, I thought it might be the same stainless 7A38-7270, fitted with an incorrect replacement bracelet, that had been 'doing the rounds' on eBay Italy in 2019 and 2020. Checking my photo library, it isn't. This one's wrong bracelet is even thinner. It was probably donated by a 70's era Seiko digital. I can't quite discern the part number stampings on the bracelet connecting tubes in the seller's case-back photo. If you're in any doubt as to what the correct Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet looks like, here's a re-post of my photo from the WRUW thread:

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Oh and judging by the incorrect font of the SEIKO logo on their 'nuova scatola', I strongly suspect that cheap looking plastic presentation box once contained a FEIKO !! :lol:

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:11 am Knowing how popular these are (regardless of condition), I wasn't surprised to see that well-worn stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original p/n Z1357S bracelet, had already been sold yesterday evening for an undisclosed best offer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124760242003

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That same well-worn stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original p/n Z1357S bracelet has just re-appeared, listed this afternoon by a would-be profiteering UK eBay re-seller, who's asking £425 as a Buy-it-Now. Rather cheekily, he hasn't bothered taking his own photos and instead is lazily re-using the previous German eBay seller's same set of 7, uploaded in a smaller size direct from his camera phone.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7a38-7 ... 4919960560

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Almost inevitable, given the 'Royal Oak' misnomer hype and seemingly incessant demand, regardless of condition. :roll: Checking my eBay watching page, I see that well-worn stainless 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original p/n Z1357S bracelet, (re)sold late yesterday evening - again for an undisclosed best offer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184919960560

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

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By coincidence, we'd recently been discussing the 7A38-7000 and 7A38-7190 gold-tone variants in a couple of other threads when forum member Jim, who's admittedly a novice 7Axx collector, wrote this comment in the WRUW thread:
jamesam wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pmMy untrained eyes have difficulty identifying the difference between the gold tone 7A38-7000 and 7A38-7190 ....
Well this gold-tone 7A38-7190, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet, that bears a passing resemblance to the p/n B1170G fitted to the gold-tone 7A38-7000 will probably serve to add to his confusion. Sorry, Jim. :P It was listed in the early hours of this morning, by a 'Royal Oak' keyword spamming, flagrantly dishonest Indonesian eBay seller who falsely claims that it comprises 'All original part'. Apart from the wrong bracelet, check out the hour hand fitted. :roll: Thankfully, he's priced it stupidly high enough @ $400 to deter all but the most foolhardy punters.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-Se-iko- ... 3818172956

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The incorrect replacement bracelet appears to be a Seiko p/n B1011G. No idea what model that's originally off. If you need a reminder of what the correct p/n B1405G bracelet looks like, check out my recent post in the WRUW thread.

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

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Seiko7A38 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:07 pm Lately it seems that every man and his dog is out to make a fast buck selling Seiko 7A38's on eBay.
Before I begin my latest rant about the unashamed greed of profiteering eBay sellers, I'll state that it was purely by coincidence that I happened to start this thread with this particular 7A38-7190, fitted with a non-original bracelet.
Seiko7A38 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:07 pmI must admit, although I started out with my usual fervent enthusiasm, instances became so commonplace that towards the final years of the old forum, I didn't bother slating some of the more obvious examples of wilful misrepresentation. Seeing this deceptively described well-worn two-tone 7A38-7190, fitted with a non-original Seiko replacement bracelet, listed by an Italian eBay seller earlier this afternoon, raised my hackles enough to re-visit this thorny perennial subject.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-vintag ... 5178790011

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I'd deliberately delayed posting an update to my original post, for reasons which will become apparent. The Italian eBay seller subsequently made 3 revisions to his listing, reducing the Buy-it-Now price by 10 Euro decrements to 180 Euros.

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On 10th July, he ended the listing as allegedly no longer available, pointing to his having accepted a 'back door' offer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265178790011

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Raise my hackles ? Seeing this sort of thing REALLY p!sses me off ! I must admit I was half expecting to see it re-appear, listed by another Italian seller. Instead, it rocked up on eBay again (as I knew it would) 10 days later, listed by a greedy UK profiteering re-seller hollizaak007, with a ridiculously marked-up Buy-it-Now price of £355 !!! :x

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Vin ... 4953326222

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Although the previous Italian seller didn't include a photo of the case-back showing the serial number, which would have categorically proven so, it's easily recognizable as being the same watch, from the incorrect replacement Seiko bracelet fitted. Zooming in on the re-sellers photo of the case-back it appears to have p/n B1408 stamped in one fixing tube, making it a B1408C. No idea what it's off - likely a 1980's Seiko Ana-digi.

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:07 pmBefore I begin my latest rant about the unashamed greed of profiteering eBay sellers ....
In case you haven't seen the thread, check out the other recent activity by this greedy profiteering UK eBay re-seller.

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

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I'm probably wasting my time posting this salutary warning, but here's another common-or-garden two-tone 7A38-7190 (same model as above and the top of this page), fitted with an undisclosed non-original generic replacement bracelet. It was listed by an Italian eBay seller this morning, with a description of just 'Perfetto'. The watch head may be in fairly decent condition and with an asking price of 200 Euros, low enough to tempt an inexperienced / indiscriminate buyer. In fact, the Italian eBay seller has already started broadcasting unsolicited offers of 170 Euros to anybody watching. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7a38-7 ... 4885944320

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Not wishing to be accused of stating the bleedin' obvious (I am), this well-worn 7A38-7080, fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet was listed earlier this morning by a US eBay seller as a 5-day auction. The fact that the bracelet is completely wrong should be immediately apparent to all but the visually impaired. The only reason I'm bothering to mention, is it looked rather familiar, hence I was somewhat intrigued by it.

Note the seller incorrectly states the lug width as being 19mm in the item specifics (when it's actually 20mm). Studying his photos, the bracelet end fixing tubes appear to be an 18mm fitment. The curved section links, with four gold plated ornament bars per side, looks very similar to the Seiko p/n B1127C bracelet, sometimes seen fitted as an alternative on the 7A38-7180 SAA055J, as discussed at length in this thread. If it is indeed a B1127C, it's been fitted with replacement clasp. I don't recognise the logo. The seller states in his description: 'I am the sole owner of this watch', yet makes no mention of the bracelet. Hopefully the risibly over-optimistic opening bid price of $750, plus the potential addition of nearly another $200 in GSP charges, should be enough to deter even the most foolhardy bidder.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-Quartz ... 4378220533

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:29 amNot wishing to be accused of stating the bleedin' obvious (I am) ....
But this one deserves a mention, if not a special award, for the most hideous non-original replacement bracelet fitted to a 7A38. This well-worn stainless 7A38-7280, fitted with what has to be one of the fugliest aftermarket replacement bracelets I've ever seen, was listed by an ironically named Romanian eBay seller vintagestyle2018 earlier this morning. Given their choice of bracelet, they clearly have absolutely have no sense of style themselves. :lol: That said, given the comparatively low-ish Buy-it-Now asking price of 250 Euros and the option to make an offer, I'm sure it will be quickly snapped up by a less discerning / novice buyer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4194470517

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The description makes no mention of the hideous aftermarket bracelet fitted, merely stating:
Seiko 7A38-7280 chronograph vintage day date quartz white dial good working

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

Post by Seiko7A38 »

Seiko7A38 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:13 pm I'm probably wasting my time posting this salutary warning, but here's another common-or-garden two-tone 7A38-7190 (same model as above and the top of this page), fitted with an undisclosed non-original generic replacement bracelet. It was listed by an Italian eBay seller this morning, with a description of just 'Perfetto'. The watch head may be in fairly decent condition and with an asking price of 200 Euros, low enough to tempt an inexperienced / indiscriminate buyer. In fact, the Italian eBay seller has already started broadcasting unsolicited offers of 170 Euros to anybody watching. :roll:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7a38-7 ... 4885944320
As I'd almost correctly predicted, that two-tone 7A38-7190, fitted with a non-original generic replacement appeared to have sold the following day, for an undisclosed best offer:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124885944320

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However, the buyer (or should I more correctly say, the person who had made the offer) appears to have had second thoughts, because the Italian eBay seller re-listed it an hour and a half later, exactly as before, as if nothing had happened. Earlier this morning, he ended that re-listing because of an error. Your guess is as good as mine. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124887735010

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Re: Yet another mis-represented non-original replacement bracelet

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This stainless 7A38-7270, in average worn condition, fitted with an unidentified* non-original replacement bracelet was listed late this morning by UK eBay seller ianwoodland63 - a known dealer, with a typically greedy Buy-it-Now price of £340.99, which is probably double what it's realistically worth. He's trying to flog it as 'a birth year watch', based on its relatively common 77xxxx case-back serial number, indicating a manufacturing date of July 1987. :roll:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-7A38-7 ... 4188795584

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The description is full of 'smoke and mirrors' and eludes to make any factual statement about the replacement bracelet.
This example has been used as you see the case and bracelet are in used condition so is the clasp all have some marks so has the bezel the bracelet not sure if came new with this type looks good on the watch anyway is a good size at 7.6 inch just or will fit smaller wrist as well
I suspect that it's an 18mm version of the ubiquitous 'Feiko' aftermarket bracelet that's been fitted with a 16mm Seiko SQ 7-hole adjustment clap (which shows rather more wear than the bracelet links). *Reason I'm unable to identify it, is that in his last two photos of the movement and case-back, which might have provided clues, the watch is shown fitted with a different incorrect aftermarket replacement bracelet. Bit of a giveaway (faux pas majeur) there, Woody ! :lol:

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If you're in any doubt as to what a correct Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet looks like, just scroll back up the page to this post.

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