Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at July 5, 2013 at 5:15 PM

Athough I've never personally been a big fan of the original 7A28-6000 'Bishop', with all the talk on other watch forums, it would be remiss not to make a brief mention here of Seiko's latest 'heritage tribute' quartz chronograph - the Seiko Spirit Smart by Giugiaro:

Caliber is 7T12. Sales product code is SCED003. Limited Edition of 500 pieces. R.R.P. is ¥33,600 JPY (approximately $333 USD).

See: http://m.hypebeast.com/2013/7/giorgetto-giugiaro-x-seiko-30th-anniversary-speedmaster-chronograph for more information.

Seiko's Japanese web page: http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/spirit/giugiaro/ - there are also 5 other colour / finish variations besides:

I trust readers will forgive me for bumping this thread by quoting one of my own earlier posts (something I actively discourage) ....

but, apart from using this particularly relevant post to start the new page, you'll see why in a minute or two. 

I'm pleased that the site is being increasingly linked by bloggers as a point of reference. I'd noticed some visitor traffic in December that was linked from Grail-Watch.com, but couldn't initially find the page. Well today another visitor arrived and I nailed it down.

http://grail-watch.com/source/seiya-japan/

Seiko SCED: A Modern Reissue of the 1980’s “Aliens” Chronographs.

It was published on December 17, 2014. I didn't take a great deal of notice initially, but then I scrolled down the page a bit ....

2013 Seiko SCED Series

The first reissue or homage to the 7A28 Aliens line appeared in 2013. The SCED003 is the most direct copy of the original “Bishop” watch, but a wide variety of other combinations was created as well. In all, there were six SCED watches issued by Seiko in 2013, with four available as a series of 500 and two being very rare, only for sale at Tic Tac in Japan and limited to just 200 examples.

This series uses the modern 7T12 movement, which isn’t quite up to the standards of the 7A28. For starters, it’s a mass-produced movement with plastic parts and not meant to be serviceable. It’s also lower-spec than the 7A28, with 1/5 second chronograph timing rather than 1/10 and lacking the split-seconds feature offered by the 10:00 button on the original. It’s an acceptable movement, but not in the same league as the 7A.

On the other hand, the cases appear to be very well made. All are stainless steel, and four of six are coated in a black super-hard material. Although it’s apparently not PVD, it does have that look. Hopefully Seiko also solved the cracking and splitting issues the original plastic buttons had.

In the interest of posterity, I’ve saved photos and specifications from Seiko’s 2013 Giugiaro Spirit web site. These watches are quite hard to find even just one year on, and the SCED009 and SCED011 are exceptionally rare: I didn’t even find a photo of those on Google!

Past that old news to find this ....

2014 Seiko SCED Series

For 2014, Seiko again reissued the Giugiaro watch lineup as a limited edition in the Spirit line. Although we have different colors and much higher production numbers, the watches are essentially the same as the 2013 models, complete with the 7T12 movement. Of these models, the SCED023 is most eye-catching to me, though the blue and black SCED021 is pretty cool too. None matches Bishop’s watch from Aliens, but that’s what the SCED003 was for!

Although 2,500 of each model were released, they’re already becoming hard to find. Our go-to Japanese sources like Seiya Japan are out of stock, and they say supplies there are running out. So if you want a Seiko Giugiaro chronograph, I suggest you buy one soon!

Looks like Seiko are milking the 'Bishop Re-Issue' Limited Editions cow to death with these additional flavours. 

Anyway, for those of the Pokemon collector mentality, here's a link to Seiko's Sprirt Giugiaro web page which Stephen included.

http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/spirit/giugiaro/

I had to smile - No, make that grimace at how Seiko have apparently plundered their 7Axx heritage by borrowing colour schemes from 7A38's and shoving them in this Bishop-alike assymetric case to make another buck. 

The SCED019 clearly uses elements of the 7A38-7050 Diver and the two-tone SCED025 is a very poor stab at a 7A38-702A / H. 

Konkordski at July 7, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Already hitting eBay at 50% mark-up of course

At least if they're going down a storm it might encourage them to re-issue more 7As even if these appear built down to a price rather than up to the same standard.  Crown position rules out the "Ripley" design though.

What Lawrence wrote still holds true. 

In hindsight, I probably should have picked up on these earlier. 

To be honest, I'd just got so used to deliberately ignoring the misleading keyword spamming eBay listings by would-be profiteering Japanese re-seller macgyverandpetes2000 (which come up in a worldwide search on 7A28) that I'd completely failed to notice his newest listing, created at the end of November, was actually for one of the new 2014 colour variants - a SCED023.

One would have thought that Seiko might have finished milking the 'Limited Edition' Giugiaro Bishop re-issue collector market by now. But No.  Seems that they recently released yet another extremely tacky Tic Tac Limited Edition (of 300 pieces) - the SCED027. 

For more pics (if you can keep your breakfast down), there was one offered FS on WatchUseek recently:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-rare-jdm-giugiaro-alien-seiko-sced027-tic-tac-limited-edition-2415778.html

Belated Edit: Apparently there was also another slightly less tacky TicTac limited edition - the SCED029.

(No connection to the sweets) 

Given the prices that original 7A28-7000 Aliens are fetching nowadays, I guess it's no surprise that after a dozen different variations on the Giugiaro 'Bishop' re-issue theme, Seiko have decided to further milk the collector market by releasing a 7T12 'Alien(s)'. 

Or at least 2, to start with: the SCED035 and SCED037:

According to Seiko's website, they're due for release in November 2015: http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/spirit

Pricing is 32,000 Yen and 36,000 Yen (+8% VAT in Japan) - these initial releases 'limited' to only 3000 pieces. 

It appears that they've just updated their Giugiaro page this morning (with more blurb): http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/spirit/giugiaro/

Pity they've chosen to give the black chrome coated version matching black pushers, instead of the 'correct' (cracked) yellow parts.

But then that could always be the subject of another limited edition - probably along with a dozen more (irrelevant) dial colour variants.

Call me cynical if you like. 

Needless to say, speculating Japanese re-seller macgyverandpetes2000 has them up on eBay already (as a pre-order) .....

.... along with a SCED003 2013 Bishop 7T12 re-issue for a whopping $1500 !!  That's more than original 7A28 Bishops fetch !! 

Further to what I'd written in one of my earlier posts: I guess it's no surprise that after a dozen different variations on the Giugiaro 'Bishop' re-issue theme, Seiko have decided to further milk the collector market ....

I need to correct my arithmetic. Seems I'd missed 'a couple'.  There have been seventeen such variations produced to date. 

Here's the numbers:

SCED001   500 pieces

SCED003   500 pieces  - The one in the correct original 'Bishop' 7A28-6000 colour scheme.

SCED005   500 pieces

SCED007   500 pieces

SCED009   200 pieces - Limited edition for Tic Tac Time (Japanese watch retail chain).

SCED011   200 pieces - Limited edition for Tic Tac Time (Japanese watch retail chain).

SCED013   250 pieces - Limited edition for Beams (Japanese mens fashion clothing brand).

SCED015   250 pieces - Limited edition for Beams (Japanese mens fashion clothing brand).

SCED017  2500 pieces

SCED019  2500 pieces

SCED021  2500 pieces

SCED023  2500 pieces

SCED025  2500 pieces

SCED027   300 pieces - Limited edition for Tic Tac Time (Japanese watch retail chain).

SCED029   300 pieces - Limited edition for Tic Tac Time (Japanese watch retail chain).

SCED031   200 pieces - Limited edition for On-Time (Japanese 'specialist' watch retailer).

SCED033   700 pieces - Limited edition for White Mountineering (Japanese mens fashion clothing brand).

Total units: 16,900 produced to date.

One can't help thinking that Seiko's marketing people could have done better by producing say 6000 of the 'original' SCED003 and only 1000 each of the less desirable SCED017 through SCED025 - instead of creating an opportunity for profiteering speculators. 

But what do I know. 

This post probably rightfully belongs in the eBay section. But I'm not about to start yet another thread (in there) blathering on about speculative over-pricing on eBay - well not one about Seiko Spirit / Giugiaro re-issues anyway. So instead I'll just tack it on here. 

In my penultimate post I commented on a prime example of would-be profiteering by Japanese eBay seller macgyverandpetes2000:

.... along with a SCED003 2013 Bishop 7T12 re-issue for a whopping $1500 !!  That's more than original 7A28 Bishops fetch !! 

If you click on that same link today, you'll see that he's since reduced his 'pie in the sky' asking price somewhat - to 'only' $799 ! 

Although the primary image has changed, that's the same listing: item # 201379454747. It's been through a few revisions since June.

Thanks to Daisuke I'm now a happy owner of the 'Ripley' remake SCED035

Seiko really have done a great job with this one.

Seiko7A38 at October 1, 2015 at 4:56 AM

Pity they've chosen to give the black chrome coated version matching black pushers, instead of the 'correct' (cracked) yellow parts.

But then that could always be the subject of another limited edition - probably along with a dozen more (irrelevant) dial colour variants.

Call me cynical if you like. 

Cynical I may be - but frequently with just cause.  Just as I'd predicted, back in October, here's the first wave. 

SCED039SCED041SCED043

Here's the next three - 'special' limited editions for Japanese retail chains TICTAC and Beams: SCED045, SCED047 and SCED049. 

SCED045SCED047SCED049

Assuming I have picked the correct image (all three of the above came from different sources), the SCED047 TICTAC limited edition really begs the question why - it's barely any different to the previous SCED043; just with Gold highlights rather than Bronze. 

Hello. I have just introduced myself in the rightful section and wanted to reserve my first post to the Giugiaro thread that led me to your website. I bought a black ripley reissue, 3 month ago, on an impulse, in the Seiko boutique in Paris where it was kind of "lost" among other watches, so much that I did not see it at first. The funny thing is that i was in the boutique to order a chrono automatic presage black dial (sort of "classical horlogerie") and leave with a designer watch. I said an impulse because in fact i was not interested in the ripley but rather the bishop design. I had just dicovered recently (or rediscovered) those watches and was very suprised to find one in Paris in the boutique while i thought it was a JDM model. Someone on the forum quote a law saying something like "you rushed yourself to buy something and then a better offer present itself". How true. I have since, bought a 7T32 thinking i will never find a 7A28/38, and then a non working (understatment) 7A28 thinking I will never find one anyway and then I found a fully working 7A38. I will have my Bishop (eventually, but not in red). And the 7A28 works perfecly (another story). On a very different note, this post started with the ref SBPP001 and I like this watch very much. I read about it in ablogtowatch and i am wondering if it's not through it that  I arrived on seiko7a38.com.  I still have to read the section about how to post photos and i will be all set. Webmaster, congratulations on your website and on the "mood" you and the members are creating. Always a pleasure to read, in all sections (i have not done that, yet...extensively). A bientôt.

It would appear that Seiko's marketing people have finally run out of fresh ideas (note the intended hint of sarcasm) for their seemingly never-ending series of 'variations on a theme' of 7T12-based so-called 'limited edition' Alien and Bishop 7A28 lookalike re-issues - at least for the time being. As far as I can tell, this was the last 'Aliens' re-issue (which I hadn't previously mentioned in this thread) - the SCED051 - a limited edition for Japanese clothing chain White Mountaineering (as per the SCED033 'Bishop' re-issue).

As I did one after the last 'Bishop' re-issue (SCED033), here's a quick summary of the 'Aliens' re-issue numbers:

SCED035  3000 pieces - The one in the correct original 'Ripley' 7A28-7000 colour scheme.

SCED037  3000 pieces - The all Black version (including strangely Black pusher buttons).*

SCED039  2000 pieces - Another pointless ‘Two-Tone’ (Stainless / Black) ‘limited edition’.

SCED041  2000 pieces - Another pointless ‘Two-Tone’ (Black / Stainless) ‘limited edition’.

SCED043  2000 pieces - Another pointless (Black with Bronze details) ‘limited edition’.

SCED045    300 pieces - Limited edition for TicTac Time (Japanese watch retail chain).

SCED047    300 pieces - Limited edition for TicTac Time (Japanese watch retail chain).

SCED049    300 pieces - Limited edition for Beams (Japanese mens fashion clothing brand).

SCED051  1000 pieces - Limited edition for White Mountineering (Japanese mens fashion clothing brand).

Total units: 13,900 produced to date.

*The anomoly of black pusher buttons on the SCED037 leaves an opportunity for Seiko to introduce yet another version with the correct (authentically cracked) yellow plastic pusher buttons, as per the original black chromed 7A28-7000/9 ‘Aliens’, at some future date. Perhaps that’s why they’ve ‘only’ released 13,900 units so far, compared to the total of 16,900 units for the ‘Bishop’ re-issues. The apparent shortfall still leaves scope for one final ‘Limited Edition’ of 3000, once all existing retail stocks have been sold.

Call me cynical if you like. 

But have Seiko finished 'milking to death' their 7A28 / Giugiaro heritage ?  Apparently not quite yet, it seems. 

Prior to the SCED series of re-issues, the 7A28-6000 'Bishop' and 7A28-7000 'Aliens' were already both well-known to Seiko collectors (at least in their original colour schemes), the lesser known 7A28-7A00, also designed by Giugiaro, wasn't so familiar to some.

For example, see this thread: http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7489709  What is this 7A28?

I guess that's all about to change with the latest batch of 'limited edition' Giugiaro re-issues. 

http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/selection/giugiaro2016

Whereas the first two releases, SCED053 and SCED055 minic the colour schemes of the original 7A28-7A00 SBBJ005 and SBBJ007, there are already three more 'variations on a theme', aimed at those collectors with a Pokemon mentality (and bottomless pockets) and younger buyers with dubious tastes in 'fashion': SCED057, SCED059 and SCED061.

Here's a scan of the page from the 1985 JDM Giugiaro catalogue:

Although the SCED053 and SCED055 appear (at first glance) to be pretty decent homages to the original Giugiaro 7A28-7A00's, possibly even better than the 'Aliens' and 'Bishop' re-issues which preceded them, it would appear that Seiko have deviated from Giugiaro's original manufacturing concept with this one. The 7A28-7A00's watch case and bracelet were injection moulded plastic:

Whereas (according to the case-back stampings) the re-issue will be coated stainless steel:

This Japanese article from tech blog website ASCII.jp confirms that fact. Google translates the relevant sentence as follows:

Although the original model used reinforced plastic in the case and band, in the remake model to reproduce the watch in stainless steel with surface treatment...

The well-written informative article includes this interesting snippet about the angled dial (in 2 planes):

Indeed it's well worth a read (using Google Translator). It also states that the scheduled release date is 11th November.

The article includes two rather small cropped versions of Seiko's website photos. I've redone them myself - slightly larger.

There isn't much other information about them available online yet (they were only announced literally a couple of days ago) ....

But here's a link to another page on Seiko's website, where they're currently shown as the latest relases in the 'Spirit' range.

http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/collections/en/spirit

SCED053  Retail Price 35,000 Yen + 8% Japanese Sales Tax - Limited edition of 1500 pieces.

SCED055  Retail Price 35,000 Yen + 8% Japanese Sales Tax - Limited edition of 1500 pieces.

SCED057  Retail Price 30,000 Yen + 8% Japanese Sales Tax - Limited edition of 1000 pieces.

SCED059  Retail Price 35,000 Yen + 8% Japanese Sales Tax - Limited edition of 1000 pieces.

SCED061 Retail Price 35,000 Yen + 8% Japanese Sales Tax - Limited edition of 1000 pieces.

Speaking of 'pointless' (read also tasteless and garish) limited editions as I was previously ....

Could someone please explain why the SCED049 has a mauve sweep hand and black pusher buttons instead of yellow ?

Or am I missing something ? 

Konkordski at July 7, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Already hitting eBay at 50% mark-up of course

At least if they're going down a storm it might encourage them to re-issue more 7As even if these appear built down to a price rather than up to the same standard.

Prophetic words from erstwhile forum contributor, Lawrence. 

Indeed, with a fortnight still to go before the release date, they are already on eBay. 

Who should be first out of the blocks, at taking pre-orders, but the profiteering Japanese re-seller macgyverandpetes2000. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201699433594

Though not as outrageous as his earlier mark-ups on SCED003 'Bishop' re-issues, his $500 Buy-it-Now price still represents a profit margin of nearly 40% on the US dollar equivalent retail price of $358.75 (37,800 Yen) at today's exchange rates. 

Seiko7A38 at October 27, 2016 at 2:39 PM

Speaking of 'pointless' (read also tasteless and garish) limited editions as I was previously ....

Could someone please explain why the SCED049 has a mauve sweep hand and black pusher buttons instead of yellow ?

Or am I missing something ? 

Seems I had missed something. 

The SCED059 Giugiaro re-issue is a repeat of the colour scheme used on the earlier SCED017 'Bishop' re-issue. 

Just as pointless, IMHO - so it still begs the question Why ? 

The stainless / orange / grey dialed SCED057 Giugiaro re-issue also repeats elements of the earlier SCED009 and  SCED023 'Bishop' re-issues, but somehow manages to do it so much better and look just right (IMO). If I were in the market for a pair of these (I'm not), I'd probably plump for the black / red SCED055 and stainless / orange SCED057 (rather than the black / orange SCED053).

Who should be first out of the blocks, at taking pre-orders, but the profiteering Japanese re-seller macgyverandpetes2000

Though not as outrageous as his earlier mark-ups on SCED003 'Bishop' re-issues ....

Incidentally, his latest outrageous asking price for a used SCED003 'Bishop' re-issue is  $1699 !! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201661507368

I´m now also the proud owner of a Giugiaro "Bishop" reissue.

Some years back I already had the original 7A28-6000 in minty condition but I wasn´t really into the diver design at that time.

Things have changed and now I bought a SCED023. I really like the the combination of grey and orange colour. Here are some pics: